Least they could have done was add comms to story TFB if they made SM EC easier and removed BH comms from SM EC. 'Cuz now the potential BH Comms 'income' is even less than before 1.4 (just guesstimating)

I wonder if any of the DEV read the forums and the only way they really see things is from the Admin at the forums ... IF they did come here and read this Post maybe they would admit they were wrong and will look at a way to give us more BH Comms intead of tell us TFB was suppose to give us that Egde to get gear faster etc ... And Maybe just Maybe they are looking at better ways of giving us more BH comms and if they are , they really should let us know and not make us make a post with a lot a of negative feed back ....

 

 

And this fall will fall on Death ears they really Don't care and i feel they are just making some kind of quota so they can get there bonus and srew the player base .

 

 

Patchb notes reflect it now :

 

 

Operations

 

General

•[WEEKLY] Deadly Operations now awards 30 Daily Commendations.

•[WEEKLY] Galactic Operations now awards 10 Daily Commendations and 8 Black Hole Commendations.

•[WEEKLY] Galactic Crisis Points now awards 10 Daily Commendations and 8 Black Hole Commendations.

 

 

 

 

 

•Storymode Operation bosses will no longer drop Black Hole Commendations.

 

 

But Nothing about

 

 

 

NIM KP ........

Edited September 29, 2012 by moonshoter

 

Right now, neither of that happens, so progression is broken. I find it funny that you made an entire post and didnt realize this. So now that we are all laughing can we get back on topic on how progression is currently broken and we would like someone from Bioware to explain what they believe the current progression is?

 

Doing dailies for 3 months to get black hole gear to progress in raids is not progression.

 

 

Yea seems someone at BioWare is really clueless on how progression works in this game.

Yea seems someone at BioWare is really clueless on how progression works in this game.

 

 

Answer is even thu they say they do or are ...They don't play games online games some of them do but the way the game is run most dont they just code and give us what they think we should get and have no clue ...

 

 

Take WoW i read someplace in oder to work for them you have to play games .

and it shows there

nice post tbh...

 

i mostly agree, though i dont think NM EV is hard enough to justify any BH comms reward per boss, but maybe as a reward for completion.

i can see why the comms were removed from the chests in EC SM and kinda agree that the SM is there (supposedly) to learn tactics for HM. farming BH comms from EC SM meant the only reason u really had to do EC HM was for mainhand and offhand gear.

 

on a side note, i think there should be a title gained in KP for operating the puzzle and successfully killing the fabricator. as it is, too many people queue up for KP SM who dont know how to use it and make it a hideous operation to pug.

having a title specifically for knowing the puzzle would give people an incentive to actually learn how to do it.

something along the lines of The Builder for SM and The Architect for HM/NM?

 

i saw a couple posts saying that EC SM rewards the same gear required to run it.

this is completely false. EC SM is completely doable with a full columi geared team as long as they are somewhat competent. TfB SM is doable with columi+ and should be easy in rakata+.

 

Thanks! I take your point about KP NiM not dropping BH comms on bosses, only on completion.. But there has to be some logic to the progression in this game and the way BH comms are awarded, and right now there is not.

 

I don't agree that you could "farm" them from EC SM. You could only do this OP once per week and it didn't drop so many BH comms that you could buy tons of gear. The only BH gear that dropped was from the final boss, and having run that OP weekly for a long time now it has only happened to our guild three times. Ever. So it wasn't really a great way to "farm" for anything. It was (and will continue to be) a good way to get Rakata gear and test new roles for people who are playing different builds or classes.

 

If left the way it is now, EC SM and NiM KP just became as useless to run as NiM EV (once you have the title). They should want to make the end game content award things that make you WANT to run it weekly, instead they are making it obsolete.

Let me explain it again:

1) Get to lvl 50

2) Do regular lvl 50 FP's to get some better than starting lvl 50 gear

3) Do HM FP's to get Columi gear. You don't want to do HM FP's, then do SM EV/KP to get Columi,

4) Do HM EV/KP to get Rakata. Or you can do SM EC/TFB (Please notice in the patch 1.4 notes that SM EC was really nerfed).

5) Do HM EC/TFB.

 

So, you can get from 1 --> 5 without doing a single story mode. Got it?

 

 

4.

 

And once again SMEC/TFB has no point.

 

Literally. "Oh but you can learn the fights."

 

No. No you cant. HM EC and TFB(presumably) introduce new mechanics into the fights. Or the mechanics that you previously heal through must be mitigated somehow (tank swapping in EC for the Firebrand) So what you learn in SM EC/TFB can have little to NO application in the HM versions.

 

Want rakata?

 

Do HM EV/KP. Easier Operations.

 

No matter what they say that that SM EC/TFB is tuned for Columi that is blatant lie. My guild has carried a columi tank through SM EC and that **** was hard as hell. The rest of us were in Rakata/Blackhole. Maybe now that SM EC is nerfed but even then I would expect the fights to still be harder then EV/KP.

 

So whats the point? Why would I want to incur the repair costs and the frustration of trying to get SM EC done when I and my guildies can easily blow through EV/KP for what is essentially the same gear?

Edited September 29, 2012 by DakSomtaaw

Do HM EV/KP. Easier Operations.

 

I agree.. waste of time to chase EC SM now and NiM is a complete waste w/o black hole comm's as well.

 

I'd rather drag Guild 50's thru EV and KP HM's for Rakata than waste time on EC for no gain to me. At least my repair bill will be less doing that approach. Heck I'd rather drag ONE at time thru LI HM for gear AND Black Hole comms for myself. I can at least get a daily 5 BH Comm's for that plus the weekly. (Stupid huh?)

 

Sorry Bioware, I think your lack of Progression planning is really going to make it hard to "TURN BACK TIME" and correct this mistake. Put the BH Comm's back please.

I'm glad for the changes, BH comms were too easy to get before.

I'm glad for the changes, BH comms were too easy to get before.

 

And so? Do you actually enjoy in the struggles of other people?

I'm glad for the changes, BH comms were too easy to get before.

 

So what if they were easy to get before? Do you feel more elite now because people will have a harder time gearing a fresh character or alt up?

 

Or are you just looking forward that much to grinding out 700 BH comms for the new implants for the next few months? Because unless your in one of the few guilds that have cleared hm TFB right out of the gate, you are going to be grinding more to get those 700 comms.

 

If they they are removing SM EC & TFB from gear progression, then why even have them drop random black hole pieces, because it doesn't make that much sense to offer 1 type of gear upgrade, but not another.

 

Also why should you get 5 BH comms for running a HM flashpoint, when that is even farther below the gearing progression, since they are made for people running in basic level 50 gear, or gear with daily comm mods.

Meh, reposted by mistake Edited September 29, 2012 by GeckoOBac

I'm glad for the changes, BH comms were too easy to get before.

 

Says a person who got his gear this "easy way"

so if these ops don't have blackhole coms. they want us all to quit raiding and do daily hm flashpoints/lost island over and over????????????????????????????

so if these ops don't have blackhole coms. they want us all to quit raiding and do daily hm flashpoints/lost island over and over????????????????????????????

 

 

 

Sadly it seems that way this is a Joke

Restore BH coms Bioware !

so if these ops don't have blackhole coms. they want us all to quit raiding and do daily hm flashpoints/lost island over and over????????????????????????????

 

Pretty much. HM EV/KP til Rakata and if you want to not struggle real hard in HM EC/TFB its Flashpoints for a couple of weeks everyday.

I guess I'll wait until the level cap is expanded and the storylines continued before returning to the game. There's nothing for me in this game at th moment, just stuff for raiders.

From what I can see then...

 

Story mode operations are all now (in theory at least) a similar level of difficulty and reward similar gear.

So puggers or alts can go do EV, KP for columi gear then EC or even TFB on story mode and get Rakata gear.

 

Then for your progression raider... you do EV SM --> KP SM --> EV + KP HM and/or EC / TFB SM --> EC HM --> TFB HM --> EC NMM --> TFB NMM.

 

EXCEPT...

 

If EV and KP have more bosses, less trash and can be cleared quicker on HM than a SM operation... why would anyone in their right mind go and do EC or TFB more than once or twice on story mode ? All I see for EC and to a lessor extent TFB is stick, with no sight of the carrot.

 

Then... Black Hole comms are now worthless to raiders. Raiders capable of doing EC HM don't need BH comms, because they're getting Campaign gear which is better itemised for secondary stats and doesn't require the cost of extracting the mods to put them into Columi / Rakata shells. Sure, they can get campaign gear AND BH comms to tweak their secondary stats around for a short while, but that period is very limited when you are already getting campaign gear.

 

So for raiders who perhaps aren't quite ready for EC HM yet or who are struggling progressing on those fights... the only obvious choice is to head BACKWARDS into flashpoints for gear upgrades. *sigh*.

 

btw, the next call from players is going to be to nerf EC HM to make it more accessible for the lower tier of progression guilds. On the basis that the uber guilds are already working their way through TFB HM and the step up from EC SM to EC HM is too great for everyone else. You know, just a heads up, so you can think about it ahead of time, rather just reacting blindly.

 

My take on this that it will do nothing to slow down the gearing speed of "high level" progression guilds, and removes the opportunity for "lower level" progression guilds to over-gear fights they are struggling with. So... lose-lose, with only frustration on the horizon.

 

This line intentionally left blank

Edited October 1, 2012 by Woetoo

I will offer one different view of the matter... Both SM EC and TFB chests have more crafting materials for which you can just make the mods that you would pull out of the BH gear anyways.

 

We've pretty much just used the BH Comms to buy whatever to rip for mats, learn and print em like money I know it doesn't answer the wacky reasoning for our current situation but seems an easier path (from a routine group standpoint) still leaves the random folks requiring to track down said crafters.

 

But other than a shell change, most of us really just rip the Mod/Enhancements shred em for mats craft what we really wanted, and take the Campaign armorings to whatever shell we desire or use the Rakata/BM shells for the set bonus. Same for Barrels (easiest to move with Legacy Event weapons) and Hilts usually just get from simple EC HM rips too.

 

Its also looking to be a faster method to do this for Dread Guard as well with the 1 piece that drops at that rate of min/max'n that junk ya rip and go... You end up with a large amounts of crafting mats that sort of trumps BH Comms (leaving you with BH Comms for Ear/Implants of course these are also easily crafted as well).

 

Just 2cent different point of view I guess, but I do agree with most of the previous posters views/angst the current arrangement needs to be re-evaluated to some degree.

Probably not a bug. Was reported several times on PTS.

 

If Im not mistaken it's attempting to keep Storymode nice and casual but in return also keeping the rewards light. It's also likely to make sure people keep using the Group Finder to farm BH comms as well as making sure nobody can gather BH comms too quickly. No proof to support this, just an educated guess.

 

^^

This guy got it right. BW didn't put it in the patch notes because they knew people would complain. It was supposed to raise people queuing in group finder to get their black hole comms there (think about it. you can get 10 comms a day by running an op and a hm flashpoint. WAY faster than a SM EC run). Ironically, the group finder pops have gone down on average. Sometimes I'll have a lucky day, but most times not.

From what I can see then...

 

Story mode operations are all now (in theory at least) a similar level of difficulty and reward similar gear.

So puggers or alts can go do EV, KP for columi gear then EC or even TFB on story mode and get Rakata gear.

 

Then for your progression raider... you do EV SM --> KP SM --> EV + KP HM and/or EC / TFB SM --> EC HM --> TFB HM --> EC NMM --> TFB NMM.

 

EXCEPT...

 

If EV and KP have more bosses, less trash and can be cleared quicker on HM than a SM operation... why would anyone in their right mind go and do EC or TFB more than once or twice on story mode ? All I see for EC and to a lessor extent TFB is stick, with no sight of the carrot.

 

Then... Black Hole comms are now worthless to raiders. Raiders capable of doing EC HM don't need BH comms, because they're getting Campaign gear which is better itemised for secondary stats and doesn't require the cost of extracting the mods to put them into Columi / Rakata shells. Sure, they can get campaign gear AND BH comms to tweak their secondary stats around for a short while, but that period is very limited when you are already getting campaign gear.

 

So for raiders who perhaps aren't quite ready for EC HM yet or who are struggling progressing on those fights... the only obvious choice is to head BACKWARDS into flashpoints for gear upgrades. *sigh*.

 

btw, the next call from players is going to be to nerf EC HM to make it more accessible for the lower tier of progression guilds. On the basis that the uber guilds are already working their way through TFB HM and the step up from EC SM to EC HM is too great for everyone else. You know, just a heads up, so you can think about it ahead of time, rather just reacting blindly.

 

My take on this that it will do nothing to slow down the gearing speed of "high level" progression guilds, and removes the opportunity for "lower level" progression guilds to over-gear fights they are struggling with. So... lose-lose, with only frustration on the horizon.

 

This line intentionally left blank

 

^^

Also this person. I like your post.

I have to agree with everyone! The progression is broken and needs some tweaking by BW folks. Knee jerk reactions seem to be a BW common mistake to over corect things - Like the gear chase to have BiS

Story Mode Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond are balanced for players in Columi gear

1) I'd like to see a full BIOWARE team run SM EC/TFB in Full Columi. (I'd like to see a video). SM EC maybe now, but SM TFB? Doubt you would make it past the 2nd Boss with that group. (could be wrong)

 

Doing the math (with AskMrRobot > Gear Config > Simulation Tool > Max DPS) I'm not seeing how you can beat enrage timers on several Bosses without computer macros/efficiency.

 

Don't get me wrong, my math might be off here. Try this: Take a FULL Columi ALT to the OPS test dummy and pull down your average DPS. Repeat for every one of the Team members (Classes on OP) and do same. Example: My BH/Camp Geared ALT is capable of ~1500 DPS on paper, but only pulling ~1,200 on Dummy and more like ~1000 on actual OPS.

- - http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5155548&postcount=7

Going forward, Hard Mode and Nightmare mode will be the source of progression in Operations.

2) Great.. so NMM should be seeing BH Comms again? (Since HM drops BH and NMM used to)

Story Mode was the best way to farm Black Hole Commendations

3) Okay! So you replaced BH Comm's with Materials to allow us to craft instead?

4) So Group Finder other SM's so we can get 5 BH comm's for doing all four SM's.

Introducing either Op into the Group Finder would also mean rotating out Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace

5) Why? I find it hard to believe you can't setup a 2nd set instead of replacing (Call Tier 2 like Lost Island row)

OR

 

A) Put back two (2) BH Comms (small amount) in SM EC since it's been nerfed. I think 2 BH Per chest would be appropriate amout to keep those more "HM" based players jumping into SM versions to help others. Let's be honest, the whole "Columi" config is a load of crap and anyone that plays the game knows this.

 

B) Add as well to SM TFB - I'm thinking on the bosses (mini) would be fine since not that many chests exist. Again I think 2 BH Comm's would do the trick for the same reasons.

Edited October 8, 2012 by dscount

I have to agree with everyone! The progression is broken and needs some tweaking by BW folks. Knee jerk reactions seem to be a BW common mistake to over corect things - Like the gear chase to have BiS1) I'd like to see a full BIOWARE team run SM EC/TFB in Full Columi. (I'd like to see a video). SM EC maybe now, but SM TFB? Doubt you would make it past the 2nd Boss with that group. (could be wrong)

 

Doing the math (with AskMrRobot > Gear Config > Simulation Tool > Max DPS) I'm not seeing how you can beat enrage timers on several Bosses without computer macros/efficiency.

 

Don't get me wrong, my math might be off here. Try this: Take a FULL Columi ALT to the OPS test dummy and pull down your average DPS. Repeat for every one of the Team members (Classes on OP) and do same. Example: My BH/Camp Geared ALT is capable of ~1500 DPS on paper, but only pulling ~1,200 on Dummy and more like ~1000 on actual OPS.

- - http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5155548&postcount=7

 

2) Great.. so NMM should be seeing BH Comms again? (Since HM drops BH and NMM used to)

3) Okay! So you replaced BH Comm's with Materials to allow us to craft instead?

4) So Group Finder other SM's so we can get 5 BH comm's for doing all four SM's.

5) Why? I find it hard to believe you can't setup a 2nd set instead of replacing (Call Tier 2 like Lost Island row)

OR

 

A) Put back two (2) BH Comms (small amount) in SM EC since it's been nerfed. I think 2 BH Per chest would be appropriate amout to keep those more "HM" based players jumping into SM versions to help others. Let's be honest, the whole "Columi" config is a load of crap and anyone that plays the game knows this.

 

B) Add as well to SM TFB - I'm thinking on the bosses (mini) would be fine since not that many chests exist. Again I think 2 BH Comm's would do the trick for the same reasons.

 

Are you testing BiS Columi with full augments? My guild cleared HM TFB but we're BiS Campaign/BH with full augments. If you're complaining that fresh Columi can't do it, then you're not hitting your max potential with Columi gear. BW did say in full Columi, but that doesn't mean you can't assume they meant "Fresh Columi, no Augments". I know there was a dev who said before 1.4 came out (this was actually around the time that full augments on everything came out) that right now HM EC and such isn't balanced around full augments so people with full augs are going to have an easier time, BUT future operations will be balanced assuming full augments.

 

Also, certain group make-ups always make things easier. One sorc/sage with Healing Pool helps tremendously in 8-mans. Having 2 much melee is a problem. Those same problems exist in both HM and SM.

 

Are you sure you're optimizing your performance with full Columi?

 

However, I'm fine with them making SM EC and SM TFB easier for people who just want to see the content. If you want the best gear though, you gotta do it the right way and do HM Ops. Simple as that.

I have to agree with everyone! The progression is broken and needs some tweaking by BW folks. Knee jerk reactions seem to be a BW common mistake to over corect things - Like the gear chase to have BiS1) I'd like to see a full BIOWARE team run SM EC/TFB in Full Columi. (I'd like to see a video). SM EC maybe now, but SM TFB? Doubt you would make it past the 2nd Boss with that group. (could be wrong)

 

I totally agree, that statement from BW is once more a powerful testament to the fact that those guys got no clue whatsoever. There is no way in hell you can beat the Dreadguards in Columi gear. Kel´Sara is gonna enrage all nite long and send your sorry Columi azzes packing with a double-bladed lightsaber sticking in them.

 

And thats the part I really dont get, if they obviously got no idea what they are doing why dont they just ask someone whos more competent? For instance if they asked me, I would say: Listen BW, its entirely retarded to have an operation drop the gear that is actually needed to beat the same ops in the first place. Either nerf TFB sm so it can actually be done in Columi, or what I would prefer, make it harder but let it drop better gear (BH/Campaign) so people can actually gear up in the storymode and thus be able to beat it in hardmode. As of now all hardcore pve guilds like mine already came in fully augmented BH/Campaign and only did TFB sm to learn the mechanics and then went straight to TFB hm, since there is no incentive whatsoever to do TFB sm as soon as you can beat it due to completely worthless drops.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Sithcreep

This doesn't explain why they were removed from Karaga's Nightmare Mode.

 

Maybe because NM KP is a joke.