The problem is: Players give up too easy. When things get tough they quit.

True. I'm not one who really cares about whether I win or lose, but I like a challenge. When matches aren't looking too good and the enemy has definitely brought their A game, I tend to enjoy those matches more than matches where I'm on a team with a premade owning a warzone. When it's too easy, it's boring imo which is why solo queueing is bearable for me.

I've been in warzones where everyone except me has stopped attacking the other turrets/nodes.

If you like it tough, then you should like the idea of runing against premade teams.

Voila!!

Premades vs premades and pug vs pug

I rest my case

There's a real easy way to fix gear discrepencies:

Lock WH+ gear to Rated WZ use only.

This will also weed out those players who somehow get their jollies from being in min-maxed gear and steamrolling those without just for laughs.

With their overwhelming gear advantage gone, they'll soon start losing, and will quickly thereafter quit doing it.

I've come across this situation before, even in a game I ran back in the 90's. We set it up that the best gear was locked to the highest PvP play tiers to prevent just this situation. You wanted to wear that gear? Fine, but you could only then enter certain playing fields that only others in the same gear types could enter.

The griefers whined and complained, but they were made to put up or shut up. They ended up shutting right the hell up because they actually were facing an even field of play and couldn't get away with their pathetically juvenile behavior any longer.

What made it especially tasty, were that player corpses were full loot. You had to -pay- to make your stuff bound to you. If you did not and someone PK'd you? They laughed all the way to the bank, selling your gear.

it's simple and how it should be imo:

 

Nwz - only solo. No grouping. Here you learn the basics, your class and get your first gear.

Rwz - 4-man, 8-man groups. No solo(big no here for undergeared/pve people). This wz enter only people who seek greater challenge.

This^^^^

Right now, Level 50 PVP is grossly unbalanced and PUGs are getting steamrolled over and over again by the WH premades. It's not fun for casual players and ultimately self-defeating for all involved, including EA/BW.

Or is it they they just want to keep us solo/random teams as easy kills?

I think you just hit the nail on the head...!

The problem is: Players give up too easy. When things get tough they quit.

That's not necessarily true. I was playing Alderaan CW with a PUG yesterday and we got smashed by a WH-equipped premade, with obvious full voice comms. The frustration was evident in Ops chat but not one of the group quit and went the distance with the whole miserable scenario. In my experience as a casual player (with RL family, job, dog, house, yard, etc), this is not the exception.

Since people have gotten side-tracked trying to find every possible scrub way to insult me, (Lol, btw, didn't work) perhaps I should restate the real issues.

The real issue is two fold.

First being that a solo only queue takes the team out of team play. No matter what the matchmaking system is, there should ways be an option to form your team. Team play is what ToR is based on, which is why there is no free-for-all match, no straight up death match. So moan all you like about gear gap (I hate it too, I just got over it), but getting rid of people playing together isn't the answer.

Second is population limits. Currently, most server's populations can't handle a split queue like that. Both Solo queue'rs and team players would suffer from extended queue times. I've seen people here say things like "so premades have longer waits? idc, I've got my solo queue." Well talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Not giving a **** about other people's wait times so you can be a 1 vs 1 Hero in Pug Wars is pretty damn low.

I don't believe I've said anything against a better matchmaking system, but until cross server queue's show up populations will suffer the longer the game takes to try and put together a match. That being said, even with a better matchmaking system, solo only brackets should never exist.

Now, can someone, anyone on the "1v1 Hero" defense force please give us an honest answer of why making a few friends is so hard?

On the contrary, premades are the only thing that can save non-ranked wzs because the pugs are awful.

Don't blame the premades on the other side, blame the lack of them on your side.

There isnt a single good xcuse or justification for solo queue..any what so ever that makes sense.

one thing is solo queuing because ur bored and cba to group at that point...or u need a fast daily...or you are burning time for something.

now..WANTING to solo queu?! in an online mmo?!where interaction is necessary?

like i said...stop being socially awkward wierdos...not being able to be socialy active outside your house is one thing..but online??!?!?you need help

premades getting in one estimate time- 10-15 mins

pmaking your own premade depending on the gear/skill cap you require- 5-20 mins

so ye..no xcuse to not be in one,..

team...TEAM PLAY

solo----NOT TEAMplay

There isnt a single good xcuse or justification for solo queue..any what so ever that makes sense.

 

one thing is solo queuing because ur bored and cba to group at that point...or u need a fast daily...or you are burning time for something.

 

 

now..WANTING to solo queu?! in an online mmo?!where interaction is necessary?

 

 

 

like i said...stop being socially awkward wierdos...not being able to be socialy active outside your house is one thing..but online??!?!?you need help

 

 

 

premades getting in one estimate time- 10-15 mins

 

pmaking your own premade depending on the gear/skill cap you require- 5-20 mins

 

 

so ye..no xcuse to not be in one,..

 

 

team...TEAM PLAY

 

 

solo----NOT TEAMplay

...or maybe there are 1 or 2 ppl out that that have families/jobs/ etc that dont have a set schedule or hours a night to play...just maybe (I know it's hard for young/single/unemployed etc ppl to understand...... but usually I get on have 30 mins to play and solo que. That's everyday 30 mins here , 30 mins there, get the daily done and back to RL.

I disagree with you OP. I hope you don't take this the wrong way in attacking you personally, but you have to understand that the other side have a point. This game has a team based objective warzones, that means people have to work as a team. And that includes forming groups with your friends, or what you would call premades. And as much as you hate to see it, it is working as intended. From my perspective, the problem with what you are suggesting is that you are purposely gimping yourself from having a coordinated team. Solo queue in the game did not mean you just get put on a team and hope it works for the best, it also meant working with other people and forming friendship and respect and hopefully to play more together.

The real problem on the other hand is the lack of a matchmaking system that puts together players on an equal level of skill. GW2 has it, and most fps games has it. What it does is calculate your "skill" level based on how much you have played the game as well as your win/lose rate ratio and put you with players with the same level of skill. Does it mean you never get to see top skilled people in the game? of course not, you'll just be matched with them very rarely.

...or maybe there are 1 or 2 ppl out that that have families/jobs/ etc that dont have a set schedule or hours a night to play...just maybe (I know it's hard for young/single/unemployed etc ppl to understand...... but usually I get on have 30 mins to play and solo que. That's everyday 30 mins here , 30 mins there, get the daily done and back to RL.

Then not to be rude, but you really can't complain about anything. You don't have the time to see how common/uncommon a problem is. It's just as likely bad luck has caused your 30 minutes a day to be almost all smashed-by-WH-premade matches, while 80% of the time PvP is normal and almost "balanced." (There can never be true balance until everyone's stats and class are the same).

More to the point, and I'm sure this will come off as rude, but you personally don't have the time to play an MMO. It sucks, and I think not having the time for an MMO would be terrible, but as you've described (being only 30 minutes at a time) you simply do not have enough time. 30 minutes is enough for 2 WZ's if they are back to back, but more than likely it's 1 wz and 5-10 minutes waiting. 30 minutes is barely enough time to do a daily run in the Black Hole or Illum, without doing the heroics. 30 minutes isn't even enough time to do most flashpoints.

Then not to be rude, but you really can't complain about anything. You don't have the time to see how common/uncommon a problem is. It's just as likely bad luck has caused your 30 minutes a day to be almost all smashed-by-WH-premade matches, while 80% of the time PvP is normal and almost "balanced." (There can never be true balance until everyone's stats and class are the same).

 

More to the point, and I'm sure this will come off as rude, but you personally don't have the time to play an MMO. It sucks, and I think not having the time for an MMO would be terrible, but as you've described (being only 30 minutes at a time) you simply do not have enough time. 30 minutes is enough for 2 WZ's if they are back to back, but more than likely it's 1 wz and 5-10 minutes waiting. 30 minutes is barely enough time to do a daily run in the Black Hole or Illum, without doing the heroics. 30 minutes isn't even enough time to do most flashpoints.

exactly..."i can only play 30 mins" so lets nerf premades!if you dont ahve time to play the game WONT be adjsuted to you...srsly.

Second is population limits. Currently, most server's populations can't handle a split queue like that. Both Solo queue'rs and team players would suffer from extended queue times. I've seen people here say things like "so premades have longer waits? idc, I've got my solo queue." Well talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Not giving a **** about other people's wait times so you can be a 1 vs 1 Hero in Pug Wars is pretty damn low.

I hear alot of attempts justification in this thread. Alot of for lack of better term ********. So let me ask you this... why aren't you group queuing in the ranked warzones, why are those not enough for the group PVP oriented? Oh right. They are too hard.. 9 out of 10 of you get your butts kicked. Its much easier to queue up, face pugs, and justify it on the forums instead of following your own advice and actually getting better.

PVP populations are small because the CC/Resolve continues to be broken. This is not Star Wars but Stun Wars. Premade vs Pug groupings furthure amplify the damage by creating the feeling that players have no ability to actually fight back, stun/stun/dead. So what do they end up doing? They do what you yourselves have done... find something easier to do. Why should pugs be punching bags for an inflated ego PVP population.. when most of you have run from actual organized group PVP for the very same reason?

I get though that this will not change any of your minds, hell.. most of you already know what you are doing is not going to work in the long term, F2P will change nothing if players continue to have no reason to queue up. So keep reaching for those low hanging fruit for as long as Bioware lets you, the rest of us will try to fix the game until we get bored of that as well.. but lets not kid ourselves.. you aren't trying to get any better then those pug players you keep screaming should "L2P". So pot meet kettle for real.

I hear alot of attempts justification in this thread. Alot of for lack of better term ********. So let me ask you this... why aren't you group queuing in the ranked warzones, why are those not enough for the group PVP oriented? Oh right. They are too hard.. 9 out of 10 of you get your butts kicked. Its much easier to queue up, face pugs, and justify it on the forums instead of following your own advice and actually getting better.

Take of your rage cap for a moment and try to understand some logic here. Ranked takes 8 people per side, 16 in total. Normal takes 1-4 people, making up 7-8 per side, 14-16 total. Thus, for someone to play ranked, they must get and maintain 7 other people, and have someone else do the same on the other team. It stands to reason, that ranked is less likely to pop because -exactly- 16 (8 and 8) people need to be available and in the queue.

Now, as people love to tell me, we all have lives. When we log on to play, 8 players is harder to maintain then 4. When we have 8, we form up and queue for ranked. We may or may not get a pop, and after while we then also queue for normal. The time frame that we can maintain 8 is a lot lower than the time frame someone else can maintain 2-4.

PVP populations are small because the CC/Resolve continues to be broken. This is not Star Wars but Stun Wars. Premade vs Pug groupings furthure amplify the damage by creating the feeling that players have no ability to actually fight back, stun/stun/dead. So what do they end up doing? They do what you yourselves have done... find something easier to do. Why should pugs be punching bags for an inflated ego PVP population.. when most of you have run from actual organized group PVP for the very same reason?

Your obvious rage cap continues to be on. You continue to assume players in "premades" can't handle ranked, not that it is slow to pop, it may be bugged, or they can't field 8 people 100% of the time. Notice in normal, nothing stops a solo player from joining a match, they simply have odds stacked against them. In ranked, you -can not- queue with less than 8.

Also, if you're feeling like nothing more than a punching bag 90% of the time, I suggest the issue lies within yourself. Even as a PuG, I feel capable of having some sort of impact 90% of the time.

I get though that this will not change any of your minds, hell.. most of you already know what you are doing is not going to work in the long term, F2P will change nothing if players continue to have no reason to queue up. So keep reaching for those low hanging fruit for as long as Bioware lets you, the rest of us will try to fix the game until we get bored of that as well.. but lets not kid ourselves.. you aren't trying to get any better then those pug players you keep screaming should "L2P". So pot meet kettle for real.

The problem isn't with a more level playing field, the problem comes down to solo-players in this forum wanting to exclude those who have friends. Matchmaking (with a proper population, see cross-server queuing) that tried to even the field would be fine. A PuG only queue would not be.

Secondly, teaming up is part of the learning to play experience. There are multiple levels of game play, all of which contribute to being a good player. ToR pvp is team oriented, so if player A has learned to play on a team, they are better than player B who has not. It is a simple concept.

People continue to call into question my abilities. I'll freely admit I am not a great duelist. My reflexes aren't the fastest, I forget my consumables often, etc... However, on a team I'm adept at watching other's health. I'm very good at situational awareness, and it's easy for me to predict what the enemy team will do. I'm often half way to the other node/door when the INC call goes out. I also work well with a follow dps, focusing fire, watching (or predicting) when they will Stun vs. Mezz, etc...

In the strive to get better, I'm working on my 1 vs 1 capabilities, both in duels and in wz's. Now then, someone answer my question:

Why is it so difficult to form your own team?

dunno, I may do pvp 20hrs a day, but I dont bother to find a team/guild/whatever. I enjoy fight, thats all I need. I don't want to wait while somebody smokes nor I want to force somebody waiting smoking me. That's the question of freedom. I want to do what I want and most important - when I want.

So I'm just good to play PuGs VS PuGs.

MMO means for me that If I'm in right place at the right time somebody will help me or I will help somebody, nothing more I expect.

dunno, I may do pvp 20hrs a day, but I dont bother to find a team/guild/whatever. I enjoy fight, thats all I need. I don't want to wait while somebody smokes nor I want to force somebody waiting smoking me. That's the question of freedom. I want to do what I want and most important - when I want.

 

So I'm just good to play PuGs VS PuGs.

 

MMO means for me that If I'm in right place at the right time somebody will help me or I will help somebody, nothing more I expect.

Fair enough. Freedom is good, but it has a price. You are free at this moment to queue up solo, the price is a lower winning chance/higher chance of have 7 other brain dead players on your team.

Removing the option to team queue (or splitting it) removes the freedom of choice from someone else. Now they must choose either not to play with friends, or take longer queue times or uneven matches. Under the current system, 1-4 people can queue up and play without any restriction on their choice.

(Has anyone considered what happens if a team of 3 or 2 queue's up? Without a few pugs to fill the spaces, now you'll have 6 vs. 8 more often, or even longer queue's as the game tries to balance teams of 2, 3, and 4.)

Edit: As a side note, most people are more than happy to wait 5 minutes for you to smoke, but if you don't feel like inconviencing them, tell them to queue without you. My guild has several smokers, and sometimes they make the pop, sometimes they don't. Never seen anyone mad that they missed one WZ or have to wait 5 minutes for the team to finish.

Wow the pugstompers are out in force.

Look this game's pvp is HORRIBLE for GOOD players that like to premade. It is great for mediocre players in good gear that like to premade but there really aren't as many of you out there as there are casuals and good players combined.

In primetime there can be a bunch of premades running on both sides but with the current system they will face pugs more often than they will face eachother.

PREMADE MATCHING DOES NOT MEAN THAT PREMADES NEVER GET TO PVP UNLESS THEY ARE FACING ANOTHER PREMADE!!!!!!!

A good premade matching system tries to match up premades and will sometimes make them wait a few extra minutes to get into a match. If it is much longer than that then they get to fight a pug. So now the premade either gets a good match against another premade (should be more fun and COMPETITIVE than pugstomping) or waits a few minutes (not long) and fights a pug.

This is great for all types of players EXCEPT the people that need to constantly pugstomp for some reason. There are many reasons that these people have but most of them are bad and more importantly these people don't make up a majority of subscribers (if they did then this wouldn't be an issue lol).

So now casuals would have more chance for even matches and (more importantly for me) people that want good premade matches can premade again.

It is not a get friends issue. Pugstomping is horribly boring for most decent players that have decent irl's and no major emotional issues.

Also again in the offpeak times if the system is good and realizes a lot of premades aren't q'n up then a premade will go right up against a pug so the premade doesn't have to wait long.

Also, while I'm at it I'd love cross server and mixed faction teams (when needed). This would help premade matching out a lot since then if there are 2 premades on 1 faction only q'n up then both could be with 4 pugs.

*this is in no way a response to DarthRaika above post as we posted at basically same time so didnt see his/her well written and common sense response above my post here*

You know, its funny how the Bads keep saying PUGs are not a team.

Last time I looked, PUGs still consisted of multiple players coming togather on the same side as a

wait for it

almost there

drum roll please

TEAM!

OMG, what a earth shattering statement!

Yes, WZs in this game require a team and team work.

And thats what happens when a PUG is formed.

You Bads that try to insist PVP needs to be a job and a serious no fun activity seem to not quite comprehend what PUG stands for

PICK UP GROUP!

Queueing solo doesnt mean your solo in the WZ

Your still apart of a TEAM.

Just getting bored of the backwards/upside down nonsense the fans of pre mades trying to pass off as logic here with them saying the same stupid lines over and over like they cure all answers when really they just self absorbed BS.

Show me on the box or in the FAQ where it states you will be required to form a pre made for the WZs and have to run voice communication, stat stacking min maxing, and selective group design to partake in normal war zones.

It doesnt exist so your so call statements are just more nonsense from selfish selfish selfish players who are far to impressed with themselves (no one else seems to be overly impressed btw)

Pre made doesnt instantly mean good either btw.

I find most of the pre mades in unranked warzones are only there as they the worst of the pre mades and cant handle ranked. They the ones getting rolled there so they come to unranked to stack every conceivable advantage possible in their favor in hopes they can do the steam rolling.

And it works until by fluke the PUGS get a equally geared PUG formation and suddenly the Pre made is back to being slaughtered and farmed themselves.

Its also hillarious that the bads keep telling the PUGs to make friends to make their own pre mades (worsening the issue rather then fixing issue btw) in one breath yet on other side of mouth say they cant form a 8 man ranked group for ranked.

What? Your friends list suddenly stops at 3 other names? Gathering 7 names is to much challenge for you?

I do 8 man ops 3-4 times a week.

Why cant you find 7 others to form a 8 man ranked group?

FACT IS the entire list of excuses by the BAD that run pre mades in the solo queue doesnt hold up to even distant inspection, much less close inspection. Its just more BS excuses by players that think they are great but really just the bottom feeders of their play style.

LOTS of pre mades dont step foot in unranked wzs anymore (with their fully geared out characters).

LOTS of pre mades run weekly (or even more often) ranked groups for their big guys and choose to play lesser geared alts for the unranked queue.

Its only really a small percentage that require every possible advantage thinkable to run in the unranked. Thats why its the exact same groups day after day after day doing it.

And yeah, they are the TRUE BADS in this game at pvp

Good players, BEST PLAYERS look for a challenge and competition.

Kiddies and mental midgets look to greif others that cant fight back consistently.

Why is it so difficult to form your own team?

People are lazy, don't want to deal with waiting and many more reasons like friends/guildies being offline. Picking up randoms is pretty tiring task too(you invite someone and after ~5 minutes they show up in recruit gear near the daily terminal or they are not on fleet so you can;'t check their gear...). I always try to group, but it's not doable 100% of time.

BW could just add 4-man groups(no less,no more. 4-man and 8-man only will be easier for the system to find groups and match them together) to ranked and it will be much easier to form a party and ranked que will pop faster. Adding a daily(win x2 no playx4 times because undergeared people would start joining RWZ for comms) to RWZ would gather more people too..... OR JUST IMPLEMENT THAT FREAKING CROSS SERVER THINGY, BioWare

Kalfear says:

Just getting bored of the backwards/upside down nonsense the fans of pre mades trying to pass off as logic here with them saying the same stupid lines over and over like they cure all answers when really they just self absorbed BS.

Doomsdaycomes: "So your upset Im consistant and dont change my mind with the weather?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That being said, I've never spoken against a proper matchmaking system. I've only reminded people it will drive up queue times unless the population is increased (Ie. Cross server queue'ing.)

Where I take issue, is the concept of a Solo-queue only bracket. Matchmaking good, gear gap bad. Reducing the amount of options someone has to play BAD. Atm 1-4 players (solo or premade) can queue play in non-ranked, meaning shorter queue times for all. Split queue's with a restricter of solo -or- team is bad.

<.< that make sense?

Split queue's with a restricter of solo -or- team is bad.

 

Unless majority of the server solo queues

Unless majority of the server solo queues

Nah... look at it this way:

We all agree something in an MMO being inclusive is a good thing right? If a flashpoint specifically excludes a class (No Sages on this FP, sorry!) it's badly designed, right?

Now, the solo-only queue option is exclusive. A game mechanic prohibits people from playing with their friends (except by dumb luck of landing on the same team.)

The current system is flawed, but it's still inclusive. It doesn't prohibit the single players from joining, it doesn't prohibit teams from joining. That's where a matchmaking system, better population, etc... would help. Ranked being exclusive (requiring 8) is a bad system, and would relieve the situation of PuG's vs WH teams (which isn't as bad as people claim) if it were made more inclusive.

Does this make sense?

Take of your rage cap for a moment and try to understand some logic here. Ranked takes 8 people per side, 16 in total. Normal takes 1-4 people, making up 7-8 per side, 14-16 total. Thus, for someone to play ranked, they must get and maintain 7 other people, and have someone else do the same on the other team. It stands to reason, that ranked is less likely to pop because -exactly- 16 (8 and 8) people need to be available and in the queue.

 

Now, as people love to tell me, we all have lives. When we log on to play, 8 players is harder to maintain then 4. When we have 8, we form up and queue for ranked. We may or may not get a pop, and after while we then also queue for normal. The time frame that we can maintain 8 is a lot lower than the time frame someone else can maintain 2-4.

 

 

 

Your obvious rage cap continues to be on. You continue to assume players in "premades" can't handle ranked, not that it is slow to pop, it may be bugged, or they can't field 8 people 100% of the time. Notice in normal, nothing stops a solo player from joining a match, they simply have odds stacked against them. In ranked, you -can not- queue with less than 8.

 

Also, if you're feeling like nothing more than a punching bag 90% of the time, I suggest the issue lies within yourself. Even as a PuG, I feel capable of having some sort of impact 90% of the time.

 

 

 

The problem isn't with a more level playing field, the problem comes down to solo-players in this forum wanting to exclude those who have friends. Matchmaking (with a proper population, see cross-server queuing) that tried to even the field would be fine. A PuG only queue would not be.

 

Secondly, teaming up is part of the learning to play experience. There are multiple levels of game play, all of which contribute to being a good player. ToR pvp is team oriented, so if player A has learned to play on a team, they are better than player B who has not. It is a simple concept.

 

People continue to call into question my abilities. I'll freely admit I am not a great duelist. My reflexes aren't the fastest, I forget my consumables often, etc... However, on a team I'm adept at watching other's health. I'm very good at situational awareness, and it's easy for me to predict what the enemy team will do. I'm often half way to the other node/door when the INC call goes out. I also work well with a follow dps, focusing fire, watching (or predicting) when they will Stun vs. Mezz, etc...

 

In the strive to get better, I'm working on my 1 vs 1 capabilities, both in duels and in wz's. Now then, someone answer my question:

 

Why is it so difficult to form your own team?

I've posted this in a pervious thread to your comment as well. So will repost it here for your enjoyment.

Ranked warzones had no problem filling when they were introduced. Then those players started losing to better teams. Now they don't queue up, or don't have enough of a roster to fill them so they farm pugs in smaller groups.

The problem isn't the math, its the so called competative pvp players. You HAD the players to queue up for premades, you lost them.

Secondly, in a pervious post that was ignored by you and everyone else in this thread I brought up the point of GW2. That game seperate PVP entirely. Ranked PVP exists as something groups queue up for together, join and win or lose depending on how well they play. Regular PVP exists as a seperate queue where people are put on random teams to face other random teams. Other games have done this as well, again ignored was AoC which switched up the way their PVP queues were handled and saw a tenfold improvement in queue times. Both games did well to realise that PUG vs Premade is not a viable form of PVP.

Long term this change will happen, it has to happen.

What makes me laugh is how much you all "rage" over this, something you accuse us of doing. You yourselves will not "find more players", "learn to communicate better", "get organized", etc. Yet somehow magically those very same arguements justify your attacks on players who see the logic of seperate queues.

What makes me laugh is how much you all "rage" over this, something you accuse us of doing. You yourselves will not "find more players", "learn to communicate better", "get organized", etc. Yet somehow magically those very same arguements justify your attacks on players who see the logic of seperate queues.

Your comment about GW2 has been noted. As I am unfamiliar with that games setup of servers, cross-server queueing, and population, there is no comparison that can be drawn, but thank you for mentioning it.

I've only quoted the paragraph above for a very simple reason. If you are asking someone to do -more- work then you are willing to do yourself, you are lazy. Plain, Simple, Truth.

Until you stop being lazy and simplistic in your thinking, it is unlikely we can engage in an equal conversation.