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1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

Incendergel's Avatar


Incendergel
03.16.2012 , 03:22 PM | #1281
Quote: Originally Posted by Proppa View Post
I play to get a buzz, killing people on an equal playing field gives that. Fighting full battlemaster war hero's, on a fresh 50 is just like lambs to the slaughter. No ammount of skill can overcome the stat/expertise difference.

Whilst some players have marginally better standard gear via datacrons etc, Expertise alone provides a 20% or higher bonus to battlemasters vs fresh 50's, let alone the stat discrepencies listed.

So this gives the teams with the most / highest gear the largest advantage. Making it easier for them to complete dailies and harder for normal people to do them.
Centurion: 466
Champion: 650
Battlemaster: 703

Centurion don't have relics I think - maybe I'm wrong but if I recall that is why centurion to champ is a wider spread.

Question to you. Do you think having a 50 - 53 expertise is a game changer? Because that is all there is. Don't believe me, visit the NPC vendor like I suggested earlier and add. If you are lazy, then google is your friend.

People say they want skill to matter - there you go. Champion gear isn't so bad now is it?

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.16.2012 , 03:30 PM | #1282
Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
Centurion: 466
Champion: 650
Battlemaster: 703

Centurion don't have relics I think - maybe I'm wrong but if I recall that is why centurion to champ is a wider spread.

Question to you. Do you think having a 50 - 53 expertise is a game changer? Because that is all there is. Don't believe me, visit the NPC vendor like I suggested earlier and add. If you are lazy, then google is your friend.

People say they want skill to matter - there you go. Champion gear isn't so bad now is it?
He didn't say a thing about Champion gear, he said that a fresh 50 going against BM is a large gap, and it is.

That's going to be made a lot softer w/ the new set of blue lv50 PvP gear, along w/ the changes already in place for obtaining gear.

Are you the type of person who would join a baseball team and then insist your steel-plated bat should be allowed because it only gives you a SMALL advantage over the other team? Do you think that your reasoning would fly in that situation?

Why do you think it flies here?
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Proppa's Avatar


Proppa
03.16.2012 , 03:39 PM | #1283
I re-rolled from my nearly Battlemaster full Champ Sorc due to getting bored with continuous Huttball, and outnumbering the reps on that server by 3/1 ratio atleast.

My Vanguard I was able to get nearly full champ gear pretty quickly and with a pocket healer I can easily stand up against a Battlemaster.

But, my Sentinel who was a fresh 50, going up against War Hero's in Full Battlemaster gear I was getting slaughtered. I started with around 200 expertise (41 from each of the Colour Crystals you can buy) then 2 or 3 pieces of centurion gear from opening the 6 champ bags upon dinging.

Trying to join a warzone, where the Imperials have been playing since release and there are full premades of War Hero's, the gear makes it almost unplayable to be honest. The more days go by I find myself player for fewer and fewer hours a day.

I rolled republic, because I wanted to try and "even" the odds a bit. Also, hoped to have a better mix in PvP. But travel to Ilum and your outnumbered 2/1 atleast. The imps on my server will just cap the central alllll the time. So I travel with the op reps on the server then we just kill a few but get over-run quickly. Making the Ilum daily, turn into a multiple day quest, whereas the Imps would get their 30/150 kills within a few minutes then be off back to the Warzones.

Ilum "Armaments" was probably the worst thing added to the game, so few has made people lie and try to "steal" them frmo other people etc. I logged on and asked in general what central was like, a player replied with "overrun by imps" I travel there needing 2 armaments for daily, turns out it was just 2 reps capping.

But sorry I'm straying from the point. I dislike the fact that the strong just get stronger and stronger and the weak just give up trying. There is almost no skill involved in it. You get over 20% (10%+ reduction 10%+ damage), aswell as battlemaster having slightly better stats over-all.

So yes, Full Champ to Full BM isn't that big a difference, but Full BM to basic gear is huge. Trying to compete as a fresh 50 is nigh on impossible now. Thats what I'm trying to get at.
Imperial : 50 Sorcerer : Scepter of Ragnos.
Republic : 50 Vanguard : 50 Sentinel : 50 Scoundrel : 17 Sage : The Shadow Runner

Incendergel's Avatar


Incendergel
03.16.2012 , 03:44 PM | #1284
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
He didn't say a thing about Champion gear, he said that a fresh 50 going against BM is a large gap, and it is.

That's going to be made a lot softer w/ the new set of blue lv50 PvP gear, along w/ the changes already in place for obtaining gear.

Are you the type of person who would join a baseball team and then insist your steel-plated bat should be allowed because it only gives you a SMALL advantage over the other team? Do you think that your reasoning would fly in that situation?

Why do you think it flies here?
Fresh 50 can obtain gear in a day or two at best and then there isn't a gap. The problem people won't admit is they want it once they hit 50 and not do any work. At 50 you should have 1 bag in the bank and 5 ready to purchase. Do I really need to do the math and list out how many tokens it would yield? Really?

They have already changed the game to resolve the issue of gear disparity. I'll list just a few for you yet again.

1. Daily and weekly Ilum - moved to warzones
2. 500 valor per medal, caps at 4 medals - that is 2,000 valor

So what I'm hearing you say is that you want to be able to ding 50 and enter a warzone AND be equal as the rest in the fight? No disparity at all to include pve gear, pvp gear, stims, or even datacrons.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.16.2012 , 03:48 PM | #1285
Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
Fresh 50 can obtain gear in a day or two at best and then there isn't a gap. The problem people won't admit is they want it once they hit 50 and not do any work. At 50 you should have 1 bag in the bank and 5 ready to purchase. Do I really need to do the math and list out how many tokens it would yield? Really?

They have already changed the game to resolve the issue of gear disparity. I'll list just a few for you yet again.

1. Daily and weekly Ilum - moved to warzones
2. 500 valor per medal, caps at 4 medals - that is 2,000 valor

So what I'm hearing you say is that you want to be able to ding 50 and enter a warzone AND be equal as the rest in the fight? No disparity at all to include pve gear, pvp gear, stims, or even datacrons.
Not really sure where you got any of what you just said from what I just said.

In fact, I basically agreed w/ you that gear is easy to get. I wasn't disputing that.

The last part of what you wrote is actually the exact opposite of what I've been saying, so you might want to get those ears of yours checked. Whatever you're "hearing" is nowhere near what's being said.

In fact, here's what I did say:


Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
No one is arguing that there isn't already an inherent stat disparity already in the game. What we are saying is that there is no need to FURTHER unbalance what is already in place by giving even more stats. Especially in a competitive PvP system where "sportsmanship" should be the name of the game.

No one is pretending that taking away STAT rewards from higher-rated characters is going to magically make every single stat discrepancy go away; if they are, they are likely delusional. What I think, however, is that there is no reason to make the stat discrepancies any larger than they already are.
Yeah, definitely not at all what you "heard" me say.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Gadian's Avatar


Gadian
03.16.2012 , 03:51 PM | #1286
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
No one is arguing that there isn't already an inherent stat disparity already in the game. What we are saying is that there is no need to FURTHER unbalance what is already in place by giving even more stats. Especially in a competitive PvP system where "sportsmanship" should be the name of the game.

No one is pretending that taking away STAT rewards from higher-rated characters is going to magically make every single stat discrepancy go away; if they are, they are likely delusional. What I think, however, is that there is no reason to make the stat discrepancies any larger than they already are.

And as I keep saying, ESPECIALLY not in a "competitive" PvP environment, as it goes against the very spirit of competition itself.

You don't take a broadsword to a fencing match and call it an even fight.
This.

Incendergel's Avatar


Incendergel
03.16.2012 , 03:51 PM | #1287
Quote: Originally Posted by Proppa View Post

So yes, Full Champ to Full BM isn't that big a difference, but Full BM to basic gear is huge. Trying to compete as a fresh 50 is nigh on impossible now. Thats what I'm trying to get at.
Fresh 50, sure. But that is the same regardless if they pvp or pve (yeah, scripted, I know). It is there to purchase with little to no effort. That list was to show people who freak out thinking there is some huge disparity - there isn't. It is what, 36 or so per piece for centurion, then 46, then 50. Like I said earlier - they have patched the game to address the accessibility of the gear. It is a moot point - they have said as much. Band aide, short term, until they can figure something out. Part of the debate these past 120+ pages as been incentive - or what is in store. Not many are actually saying it has to be gear. They are calling a spade a spade to show the gear really isn't a issue if you put it together.

What I'm hearing though is that people don't want the gear or have to do anything. Just zip in, pvp a bit, and zip out. Honestly - remove the gear. The fresh 50 is still going to get 1 shot regardless. They won't know the ins nor outs compared to someone who has played since the head start. You and I both know that. I won't even go into assisting or binding keys.

Proppa's Avatar


Proppa
03.16.2012 , 03:53 PM | #1288
Incendergel do you play Imperial or Republic? What server do you play on?

Honestly, on my server at the moment, getting the Warzone wins often only comes from Huttball of Rep vs Rep. There are SO many more BM+ Imps than Reps it seems on my server.

A friend of mine, in 3hrs of playtime on my server got 1 warzone win all night.

So that Daily turned into a 2 daily. Although he did get about 24 armaments from the warzones. The queues were about 15mins+ apart.

So generally it can be "easy" to get the gear, I think server by server is having very different experiences.
Imperial : 50 Sorcerer : Scepter of Ragnos.
Republic : 50 Vanguard : 50 Sentinel : 50 Scoundrel : 17 Sage : The Shadow Runner

Gadian's Avatar


Gadian
03.16.2012 , 03:56 PM | #1289
Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
Fresh 50, sure. But that is the same regardless if they pvp or pve (yeah, scripted, I know). It is there to purchase with little to no effort. That list was to show people who freak out thinking there is some huge disparity - there isn't. It is what, 36 or so per piece for centurion, then 46, then 50. Like I said earlier - they have patched the game to address the accessibility of the gear. It is a moot point - they have said as much. Band aide, short term, until they can figure something out. Part of the debate these past 120+ pages as been incentive - or what is in store. Not many are actually saying it has to be gear. They are calling a spade a spade to show the gear really isn't a issue if you put it together.

What I'm hearing though is that people don't want the gear or have to do anything. Just zip in, pvp a bit, and zip out. Honestly - remove the gear. The fresh 50 is still going to get 1 shot regardless. They won't know the ins nor outs compared to someone who has played since the head start. You and I both know that. I won't even go into assisting or binding keys.
Nobody is arguing this. I think you actually agree with us (even if you don't think you do).

Read the original poster and I think it will all make sense. He was crying that gear won't be rewarded for pvp grinders. We are arguing that gear-based pvp rewards are bad. The end. Some of your posts seem to agree with this.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.16.2012 , 03:56 PM | #1290
Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
What I'm hearing though is that people don't want the gear or have to do anything. Just zip in, pvp a bit, and zip out. Honestly - remove the gear. The fresh 50 is still going to get 1 shot regardless. They won't know the ins nor outs compared to someone who has played since the head start. You and I both know that. I won't even go into assisting or binding keys.
That's not what you're hearing, that's just what you're assuming.

Your assumption is actually very, very far off of the mark from what is actually being said by most of us who are against higher rated players being rewarded w/ higher stat advantages.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.