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1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

venjinze's Avatar


venjinze
03.16.2012 , 12:48 PM | #1221
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
You're completely missing the entire reason you need to obtain better gear in PvE, as opposed to PvP.
You've quoted me like 3 times, anyways explain how I am missing the point exactly?

Here's your scenario for the PvP centric player:

I primarly PvP therefore I do not require any gear to do so, when I enter a warzone all statistics, regardless of gear, are normalized. Even playing field so to speak.

Here I am in Ilum, in my orange and green gear, (remember I don't PvE) and I encounter PvE centric player of the opposing faction, he's rolling around in full raid gear. Who's going to win?



Why should someone who 'casually' PvP's be on par gear wise as someone who's main focus is PvP. It's the same logic vice versa.

Again, top tier teams will be facing off against other top tier teams, you have to work your way up the ladder, i.e. progression, this includes PvP gear. As you said, the reason you have to obtain better PvE gear is to be able to tackle harder content, this also applies to PvP.

Its trivial at this point to get PvP gear, regardless of your play time.
I'm a beast.

Kai-Eurah-Tird's Avatar


Kai-Eurah-Tird
03.16.2012 , 12:48 PM | #1222
Why do they even bother with gear. . . ? Just give people mods to put into their own gear. >_> So I dont have to waste cash ripping mods out.

VoidJustice's Avatar


VoidJustice
03.16.2012 , 12:51 PM | #1223
Quote: Originally Posted by Kai-Eurah-Tird View Post
Why do they even bother with gear. . . ? Just give people mods to put into their own gear. >_> So I dont have to waste cash ripping mods out.
^This

It's no fun buying multiple gear sets to play barbi mix and match pvp mod tea party...

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.16.2012 , 12:56 PM | #1224
Quote: Originally Posted by venjinze View Post
You've quoted me like 3 times, anyways explain how I am missing the point exactly?

Here's your scenario for the PvP centric player:

I primarly PvP therefore I do not require any gear to do so, when I enter a warzone all statistics, regardless of gear, are normalized. Even playing field so to speak.

Here I am in Ilum, in my orange and green gear, (remember I don't PvE) and I encounter PvE centric player of the opposing faction, he's rolling around in full raid gear. Who's going to win?



Why should someone who 'casually' PvP's be on par gear wise as someone who's main focus is PvP. It's the same logic vice versa.

Again, top tier teams will be facing off against other top tier teams, you have to work your way up the ladder, i.e. progression, this includes PvP gear. As you said, the reason you have to obtain better PvE gear is to be able to tackle harder content, this also applies to PvP.

Its trivial at this point to get PvP gear, regardless of your play time.
That's not my scenario at all, that's just some drivel you made up. Let's call it what it is, shall we?

That's not the system we're talking about, we're talking about the 1.2 changes for gear. I'm not sure where this fantasy land scenario you just made up came from, but it has no bearing on anything.

In 1.2, there will be PvP gear and you can obtain it like everyone else, given some time. It will be just as good as what the best players wear, but they will probably get theirs faster. And they will still probably kill you, because they are the best players.

As for your last line, this actually doesn't apply to PvP at all, because the opponents you face are dynamic and reactive. They ARE the harder content, not their gear. Their tactics/strategy/skill is the harder content. The fact that they are rated higher than you makes them harder content, usually.

In PvE, this doesn't happen, so the only way to make you progress is through making harder content and giving you stronger gear to tackle it. PvP doesn't have this shortcoming and doesn't need to follow the same model.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Terrestrial's Avatar


Terrestrial
03.16.2012 , 12:57 PM | #1225
I agree with the poster above on mods 1000%. And the gear is ugly and continues to look worse .....
Jheball "The Old Man" Sag (Former SWG-FLURRY)
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women. That is best in life."

Gadian's Avatar


Gadian
03.16.2012 , 01:06 PM | #1226
Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
Two other problems though for which we continue to bring up. First, the gear disparity is a false statement because it is there for all to obtain. It has been patched in to make it easier. The entry even stated by the developers is easier than PvE. Other than handing it to you they really can't make it any easier.
It is disingenuous to call the gear disparity a "false" issue, because it is "there for all to obtain." Technically everything in an mmo is "there for all to obtain."

Maybe, as it currently stands, pvp gear is fairly easy to obtain in this game, and maybe it is easier to obtain than it used to be, and thats fine. Most of the posts are in response to the OPs pining for gear rewards for pvp grinding. There is just a fundamental disagreement between the PVE community and the PVP community about whether gear based rewards should be given for PVP grinding.

Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
Furthermore, if people can't be bothered to do a whee bit of work of which is required now, then they won't do a bit more work to partake in anything rated....
Let me just say that a "whee bit of work," is a statement of degree, and means different things to the guy who plays this game like a part-time (or full-time) job vs. the guy who plays more casually.

Quote: Originally Posted by Incendergel View Post
The second issue is incentive. Titled have already been granted like skittles falling from the sky. Pull up your character and take a peek. Anyone who did the class quests, side quests, heroic quests, flashpoints, space, and even a bit of PvP have titles.

There isnt' a portal with stats for bragging rights. I don't know who killed the most, lost the most, highest hit, weakest hit. I don't know who is ganking people in the world more than others. We have nothing.
I tend to agree with you here. If you look carefully at people who share my position, it can be distilled down to these points:
  1. You should PVP for the pure fun of PVP.
  2. Gear disparity detracts from the fun of PVP.
  3. Gear should not be used as incentives for PVP (See #2, above)
  4. Non gear-based incentives (ratings) can be a boost for the PVP experience.

venjinze's Avatar


venjinze
03.16.2012 , 01:12 PM | #1227
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
That's not my scenario at all, that's just some drivel you made up. Let's call it what it is, shall we?

That's not the system we're talking about, we're talking about the 1.2 changes for gear. I'm not sure where this fantasy land scenario you just made up came from, but it has no bearing on anything.

In 1.2, there will be PvP gear and you can obtain it like everyone else, given some time. It will be just as good as what the best players wear, but they will probably get theirs faster. And they will still probably kill you, because they are the best players.

As for your last line, this actually doesn't apply to PvP at all, because the opponents you face are dynamic and reactive. They ARE the harder content, not their gear. Their tactics/strategy/skill is the harder content. The fact that they are rated higher than you makes them harder content, usually.

In PvE, this doesn't happen, so the only way to make you progress is through making harder content and giving you stronger gear to tackle it. PvP doesn't have this shortcoming and doesn't need to follow the same model.

Actually, if you read half of these entitlement posts you'd see where I got that scenario from. It's not something I fabricated.

Secondly, I've played competitive PvP in most of the prevalent MMO's. No forum is full of this ridiculous nonsense about removing PvP gear entirely. I PvP, I only PvP - I have a guild of 40+ PvP players, none of them complain. They enjoy it, and they enjoy the rewards for the effort they put in.

You've further enforced my point by stating that ANYONE will be able to have the opportunity to acquire the best PvP gear in 1.2. If you have crappy gear, you'll be matched up against opponents with the equivalent, why is that so hard to understand? You then get to acquire Warhero gear, the best PvP gear in game, without having to face opponents that are better geared. The more gear you acquire, dependent on your ability to PvP, the higher you'll move up the ladder. Progression.

I like progression in PvP, so do many others.
I'm a beast.

Seriasx's Avatar


Seriasx
03.16.2012 , 01:15 PM | #1228
Quote: Originally Posted by venjinze View Post
You've quoted me like 3 times, anyways explain how I am missing the point exactly?

Here's your scenario for the PvP centric player:

I primarly PvP therefore I do not require any gear to do so, when I enter a warzone all statistics, regardless of gear, are normalized. Even playing field so to speak.

Here I am in Ilum, in my orange and green gear, (remember I don't PvE) and I encounter PvE centric player of the opposing faction, he's rolling around in full raid gear. Who's going to win?



Why should someone who 'casually' PvP's be on par gear wise as someone who's main focus is PvP. It's the same logic vice versa.

Again, top tier teams will be facing off against other top tier teams, you have to work your way up the ladder, i.e. progression, this includes PvP gear. As you said, the reason you have to obtain better PvE gear is to be able to tackle harder content, this also applies to PvP.

Its trivial at this point to get PvP gear, regardless of your play time.

Because outgearing your opponent isnt fun for the guy who dies nor is it fun for the guy who wins, well it shouldnt be fun for the guy who wins.

In short -

Best warzone matches are the closest matches, removing gear from the equation allows us to have more of those type of matches. Everyone wins when games start off as evenly as possible

Incendergel's Avatar


Incendergel
03.16.2012 , 01:17 PM | #1229
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadian View Post
It is disingenuous to call the gear disparity a "false" issue, because it is "there for all to obtain." Technically everything in an mmo is "there for all to obtain."

Maybe, as it currently stands, pvp gear is fairly easy to obtain in this game, and maybe it is easier to obtain than it used to be, and thats fine. Most of the posts are in response to the OPs pining for gear rewards for pvp grinding. There is just a fundamental disagreement between the PVE community and the PVP community about whether gear based rewards should be given for PVP grinding.
We disagree. It is there, has been patched to make it easier two different ways to Tuesday. Furthermore the devs said PvP was more popular because the gear was easier to obtain. People, sheep, flock to whatever is easier. Obviously the grind as many of you are calling it wasn't so bad after all, huh?

Quote:
Let me just say that a "whee bit of work," is a statement of degree, and means different things to the guy who plays this game like a part-time (or full-time) job vs. the guy who plays more casually.
False statement. You can play as long or little as you want and still get the gear - there was absolutely nothing standing in your way other than your own style of play. Queue WZ's inbetween quests, save valor, buy 6 bags when you reach 50 problem solved. Once 50 do the dailies and pick up the weekly. Doing the dailies each day if you could then the weekly is done on its own. You only had to win 3 games. You still only have to win 3 games. To complete the 30 kill quest play 10 games. Chances are you will need to do that many anyway to win 3....again, it is so simple even part time.

You really need to stop the time thing because it isn't even a factor. It is a flat out lie and you know it. I can complete 10 games in a hour easy. This game is super casual friendly - more than I've ever known.

venjinze's Avatar


venjinze
03.16.2012 , 01:18 PM | #1230
Quote: Originally Posted by Seriasx View Post
Because outgearing your opponent isnt fun for the guy who dies nor is it fun for the guy who wins, well it shouldnt be fun for the guy who wins.

In short -

Best warzone matches are the closest matches, removing gear from the equation allows us to have more of those type of matches. Everyone wins when games start off as evenly as possible
Holy ****, read my entire post.

In 1.2 you'll have an opportunity to progress in rated warzones. If you're a new level 50, this is a great way to start in PvP because you won't be facing those fearsome battlemasters, not until you've acquired some gear and some experience.

If you think removing gear from the PvP equation will somehow make you more competitive without having the experience, simply put, you're delusional.
I'm a beast.