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MM Sniper DPS Rotation (PVE)


BanPearson's Avatar


BanPearson
01.30.2013 , 04:47 AM | #21
hello,

thanks for the infos, Tibbel! I have a fresh lvl 50 marksmanship sniper with the typical day 1 gear (recruit+wh+tionese), and my DPS is downright horrible. Against the ops dummy I'm just around 1050 sustained, with buffs, without stims or adrenals. At that gearing level I'd expect 1300/1400.

I made my own calculations and a spreadsheet, sorting abilities by dpct and dpe, and came to a different conclusion:

Quote: Originally Posted by Tibbel;5691491

2. The sustainable rotation -- This is what we typically spend the most time doing during a fight. Since our sustained damage is limited by our energy availability, we use a rotation during these "regular" times that sustains our energy in the highest-regen bracket (60%+). During this time, we prioritize abilities based primarily on their DPE ("damage per energy"). As MM snipers, we have Followthrough, which has a DPE far higher than any of our other abilities. This leads to our prioritizing it highly during a sustained rotation, and since it has a short 6-second cooldown, we very naturally fall into a consistent cycle:[list
[*](3s of filler) - Ambush - FT[*](3s of filler) - Snipe - FT[*](3s of filler) - Snipe - FT[/list]Naturally, Takedown should be used in place of Snipe whenever possible.
We use the 3 seconds of "filler" as time to prioritize other abilities by DPE -- generally, SoS > OS > CD > EP > Snipe -- however, keep in mind that any energy regeneration that is lost during that ability's usage (by hitting the cap or dropping into a lower bracket) should also count toward that ability's energy cost. What this means in practice is often one of the filler abilities in a cycle will be Rifle Shot and one will be either OS, CD, or Explosive Probe. Making the right choice for fillers is part of what helps us deal great DPS.

If you are interested in more details and discussion about the MM rotation, stats, abilities, etc, I recommend reading through the compendium linked in my signature.
To put it even simpler: As long as the energy is at max regen (never hitting 100 %, never too low), we have the highest possible amount of energy to spend, and I should use that for the best damage/energy abilities.
They are in order:
  1. Rifle Shot (use as often as possible WITHOUT hitting full energy, which is not that often actually; worst DPCT)
  2. Ambush+followthrough
  3. Orbital Strike
  4. Ambush (when used even though followthrough is already procced and waiting for cd; not a typical situation)
  5. Series of shots
  6. laze+snipe+followthrough
  7. snipe+followthrough
  8. Corrosive Dart / Explosive Probe (prefer over 1 when in danger of hitting full power)
(Considering the DPE value followthrough alone doesn't help, because it can only be used in combination with one of the "bad" DPE abilities.)
Based on that I'd rate snipe+followthrough pretty low. The highest priority is to always use Followthrough, orbital strike, ambush and series of shots (if necessary with sniper volley).

Am I wrong? I'd really like to know, because my DPS is pretty bad, never had it that bad with a fresh 50 before.

Svii's Avatar


Svii
01.30.2013 , 10:20 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Respect mate! What is your average delay between FTs?
Thanks! :>

My FT delay isn't too bad when I'm turreting, definitely under 7 sec and close to 6 sec in short phases. But operations require lots of movement and you really need to use everything in your arsenal to do top DPS. So sometimes there is up to 8-10 sec between FTs, for whatever reason. Been playing the class over a year, and I'm still finding ways to improve myself

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Svii
01.30.2013 , 10:29 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by BanPearson View Post
Am I wrong? I'd really like to know, because my DPS is pretty bad, never had it that bad with a fresh 50 before.
Concentrate on FTs, try to use it every time it's ready. That means you need to proc it with Snipe/Ambush/Takedown within the 4.5 sec (3 GCDs) before it's ready again. Like Tibbel says, you only have 3 seconds to use any other skill, this is where you try to fit in prioritized skills like OS, SoS, EP etc. they're almost never lower in priority than FT.

Snipe+FT is actually amazing, just don't spam Snipe when you do not need the FT proc. Try to use Explosive Probe and Corrosive dart when the other fillers are on CD.. or just a rifle shot.

I typically open on a boss with Laze Snipe-FT-Ambush-SoS-FT.. then I must start to see what's available and good to use. Thinking ahead and knowing a boss fight is essential to max DPS.

Another thing is your stats, Snipers are very dependent on balancing everything. We can't stack only Power, we need Crit and Accuracy too.

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Korbayne's Avatar


Korbayne
01.30.2013 , 04:24 PM | #24
alright im pretty much completely optimized now and i have one last question is i need to take either 120 surge rating (which is already at 300) or 120 alacrity which is 0 atm or i can do 60 of both im wondering would the 1.5% ish percent id gain from surge be more valuable than than the 2% id gain from alacrity if i were to split them 60/60 or should i just do 0/120 all alacrity to keep surge at the current 76.3ish that its at now and gain 4% activation
Tralt - level 50 pew pew

Svii's Avatar


Svii
01.30.2013 , 04:54 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Korbayne View Post
alright im pretty much completely optimized now and i have one last question is i need to take either 120 surge rating (which is already at 300) or 120 alacrity which is 0 atm or i can do 60 of both im wondering would the 1.5% ish percent id gain from surge be more valuable than than the 2% id gain from alacrity if i were to split them 60/60 or should i just do 0/120 all alacrity to keep surge at the current 76.3ish that its at now and gain 4% activation
I'm at this point too, just need a couple mods for full 63 and I'll go for 120 Alacrity and keep surge at 300. Don't think it will make much of a difference either way, but the alacrity might help on reducing latency for tighter Followthroughs.

Either way is fine, it's your execution that will improve your DPS. Way more than 0.2% higher theoretical max DPS.

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Korbayne
01.30.2013 , 05:04 PM | #26
I thought the exact same thing but the other problem im having then is lets say i grab the 120 this makes me take a second look at the 4% from talents also instead of the 10% aoe idk probably still not worth it but according to mrrobot if i went all 120 surge id only jump up to 78.75% so a total gain f 2.5% as oposed to 4% activation its such a toss up lol, but after a closer look it looks like the 60/60 split ould be the best and keeping the 10% aoe in talents
Tralt - level 50 pew pew

Svii's Avatar


Svii
01.30.2013 , 05:34 PM | #27
Aye, there is another problem with also taking the 4% from the skill tree. You'll struggle with keeping your energy high with 8% total alacrity. Perhaps for pvp? :3

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Korbayne
01.30.2013 , 05:53 PM | #28
i think the i just dont know im so torn cuase i know the 2% isnt that much activation and 1% surge kind of sucks too lol i feel like the amount of wiggle room you get with 2% which equates to almost nothing still might not be worth getting 50 damage on hte 5k crits more idk tough call
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BanPearson's Avatar


BanPearson
01.30.2013 , 06:20 PM | #29
I finally figured it out! After I spent 2 days making my own calculations and spreadsheets, reading guides, giving up on the spec all together and trying all sorts of other specs, I questioned my sanity. So I called a psychiatrist friend and asked if he could test me for insanity.

Psychiatrist: Ok, let's start by logging into the best damage dealer alt and buying a full set of recruit gear for him.
Me: Wouldn't that be a clear sign of insanity by itself?
Psychiatrist: No, it's refundable even after use. Listen - use that recruit gear to check the DPS under these conditions to have a baseline for comparison.

The solution was: There never was a problem. My DPS was fine for recruit gear, only 10 % below my best damage dealer which I've played for months. Now that I think about it, my other chars always had a better start at lvl 50, like a black hole offhand sent from an Alt for example.