Dark side and light side disciplines seem so polarized. I'm not just talking about moral decisions (gray-aligned sith using lightning, or gray jedi knights like Qui-Gon). I'm talking about the actual USE of the Force, or "class/category"

I propose a discipline that revolves around understanding both sides, and balancing them for even greater power. It wouldn't be easy of course, since they'd have to have special techniques to keep themselves from being so tempted by the dark side that they lose the balance.

Anyone know of someone in the lore who mastered both sides of the force, balanced them and combined them to make new powers?

There are downsides to either right now, dark making people lose their sense of morality and self-control, and light making jedi distant and heartless (think, no passionate romance, and having to part with their own kids).

This middle ground would be about using your emotions to fuel your power, but only light side emotions. Why would it be so hard to filter out the negative emotions and leave the positive ones like love? It's making jedi seem boring to the people who would otherwise like to play light side.

I dunno, I guess it just annoys me that the two disciplines are so far apart. It's one of the reasons playing a force-user hasn't appealed to me thus far.

The way I see it, the Light Side is made up of Positive Emotions, compassion, mercy and such. Hence the possibility of Light Side Sith. The Dark Side is the use of negative emotion, anger, hate, prejudice... Hence the possibility of Dark Jedi.

Grey would basically be using both positive and negative emotions to your advantage.

"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."

~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)

*Taken from ProfessorWalsh's signature*

The way I see it, the Light Side is made up of Positive Emotions, compassion, mercy and such. Hence the possibility of Light Side Sith. The Dark Side is the use of negative emotion, anger, hate, prejudice... Hence the possibility of Dark Jedi.

 

Grey would basically be using both positive and negative emotions to your advantage.

See I used to think that too, but it seems many people are of the opinion that Jedi are:

Emotionless robots. And not allowed to be romantically passionate with others. Or even very joyous.

And I hear proponents of the Sith claim that they channel all emotions, including the good ones.

"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."

~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)

 

*Taken from ProfessorWalsh's signature*

Dear Grand Master Luke,

I'm an artist.

I know that in order to paint something with substance and form, I need to use both light and shadows. The picture will never work if I leave out either. Light means absolutely nothing without shadows to define the subject, and vice versa.

Or look at Taoism, which is a religion I'd thought Lucas drew from a bit. You know those opposing dots? Those dots mean that all light has dark, and all dark has light.

I knew Luke was a great jedi but I'm not willing to think he has all the answers.

Dear Grand Master Luke,

 

I'm an artist.

I know that in order to paint something with substance and form, I need to use both light and shadows. The picture will never work if I leave out either. Light means absolutely nothing without shadows to define the subject, and vice versa.

 

Or look at Taoism, which is a religion I'd thought Lucas drew from a bit. You know those opposing dots? Those dots mean that all light has dark, and all dark has light.

 

I knew Luke was a great jedi but I'm not willing to think he has all the answers.

The thing is, Luke does have all the answers. He's the greatest Jedi that the Galaxy has ever, or will ever see, and since he has fallen to the Dark Side (briefly, he got better), he's not talking from a point of ignorance here.

The thing about The Force is that its got some unusually strict guidelines governing it for being such a mystical... force. Canonically, its impossible to channel both the Light Side and the Dark Side at the same time, it just doesn't work. Now, I'm not saying that you can't be a Sith and not be a total dick, or you can't be a Light Sided Force User and not have some weak moments (Jolee Bindo), but as soon as you deviate over that very, very fine line, you're not really a Jedi anymore. At least as far as the Prequel Trilogy Jedi Code goes, the old one had WAY more wiggle room, but Lucas didn't like that so he gave it the axe.

The thing is, Luke does have all the answers. He's the greatest Jedi that the Galaxy has ever, or will ever see, and since he has fallen to the Dark Side (briefly, he got better), he's not talking from a point of ignorance here.

 

The thing about The Force is that its got some unusually strict guidelines governing it for being such a mystical... force. Canonically, its impossible to channel both the Light Side and the Dark Side at the same time, it just doesn't work. Now, I'm not saying that you can't be a Sith and not be a total dick, or you can't be a Light Sided Force User and not have some weak moments (Jolee Bindo), but as soon as you deviate over that very, very fine line, you're not really a Jedi anymore. At least as far as the Prequel Trilogy Jedi Code goes, the old one had WAY more wiggle room, but Lucas didn't like that so he gave it the axe.

Too bad for Lucas then. My Knight, and in fact my Consular are following the Original Code. And as far as practicality goes, I'm with Kyle Katarn and Mace Windu. Hey, I can kill an evil bad guy and not feel pleasure at it. Or hatred. It's just something that needs to be done. If you KNOW that no prison can hold him, or how extremely dangerous he is, then that's the only practical thing to do. End his existence. Some would say that Mace Windu fell to the dark side when he realized the ONLY way to stop Palpatine was to kill him. I disagree. He simply saw that there was no other option available.

Too bad for Lucas then. My Knight, and in fact my Consular are following the Original Code. And as far as practicality goes, I'm with Kyle Katarn and Mace Windu. Hey, I can kill an evil bad guy and not feel pleasure at it. Or hatred. It's just something that needs to be done. If you KNOW that no prison can hold him, or how extremely dangerous he is, then that's the only practical thing to do. End his existence. Some would say that Mace Windu fell to the dark side when he realized the ONLY way to stop Palpatine was to kill him. I disagree. He simply saw that there was no other option available.

So the whole crazed look in his eye, was just for show? His crazed look like O_- >: ) >

Too bad for Lucas then. My Knight, and in fact my Consular are following the Original Code. And as far as practicality goes, I'm with Kyle Katarn and Mace Windu. Hey, I can kill an evil bad guy and not feel pleasure at it. Or hatred. It's just something that needs to be done. If you KNOW that no prison can hold him, or how extremely dangerous he is, then that's the only practical thing to do. End his existence. Some would say that Mace Windu fell to the dark side when he realized the ONLY way to stop Palpatine was to kill him. I disagree. He simply saw that there was no other option available.

I'm not going to say that I disagree with you, because I actually don't and I actually play both my Knight and my Consular the same way. I'm just stating how The Force works in G-Canon. Except for the whole "Sith not being total *****" thing, that's all C-Canon or lower. I think.

So the whole crazed look in his eye, was just for show? His crazed look like O_- >: ) >

That was just Sam Jackson being Sam Jackson and driving the point home that this was one DANGEROUS mutha****a who needed to die!

That was just Sam Jackson being Sam Jackson and driving the point home that this was one DANGEROUS mutha****a who needed to die!

This amuses me greatly because Samuel L. Jackson used to be a terrorist.

Well, he's taken hostages before.

I laughed at random Mace Windu moments to be honest...that nad have BMF on his saber made me lol hard.

Watching the prequels again after I've seen Pulp Fiction makes me look at whole scenes completely differently.

This amuses me greatly because Samuel L. Jackson used to be a terrorist.

 

Well, he's taken hostages before.

And he's also played bad*** cops who get the job done, no matter what. Either way, he has BMF on his lightsaber for a reason. If it hadn't been for that little ***** Anakin, he would have ended Palpatine right there.

After he got his hand cut off, I still think he should have looked down at Anakin, sneered, and said "You sorry *** little mutha****a!" before getting zapped out the window.

And he's also played bad*** cops who get the job done, no matter what. Either way, he has BMF on his lightsaber for a reason. If it hadn't been for that little ***** Anakin, he would have ended Palpatine right there.

 

After he got his hand cut off, I still think he should have looked down at Anakin, sneered, and said "You sorry *** little mutha****a!" before getting zapped out the window.

No, I was actually being serious. Samuel L. Jackson took hostages when he was part of the militant arm of the Panthers during the Civil Rights movement. He and a few other students took the Morehouse College board of trustees hostage (including, ironically Martin Luther King Sr.).

There are some inconsistency (to me at least) in this whole light/dark side of theForce. In Episode V on Dagobah, Yoda is teaching Luke about the Force, and mentions that the Force is in/derives from everything. Rocks, plants, trees, etc. So, if the force is 'IN' those things are there than light/dark side rocks? Plants? Trees somewhere in the universe? I don't think so. So to me there is no Light/Dark sides of the Force. There is just the Force. Perfectly Neutral.

The Dark Side isn't natural, the Light Side is.

Jedi reject all emotions, to literally become a tool of the force...

Sith rejoice in their emotions, using them to try to make the force their tool...

Jedi protect life, which is the force, but they do not use the force to its potential by drawing off of it through their own life...

The Sith try and surpass and ultimately destroy life, which ultimately weakens the force, and they also become spoiled by only understanding the force through their emotions...

Both are wrong, and one must understand both sides to fully "control" and "become one" with the force

Jedi reject all emotions, to literally become a tool of the force...

Sith rejoice in their emotions, using them to try to make the force their tool...

 

Jedi protect life, which is the force, but they do not use the force to its potential by drawing off of it through their own life...

The Sith try and surpass and ultimately destroy life, which ultimately weakens the force, and they also become spoiled by only understanding the force through their emotions...

 

Both are wrong, and one must understand both sides to fully "control" and "become one" with the force

Jedi don't reject emotions, its impossible. If that were true, then every jedi in the movies has failed at being a jedi.

I dont think Force powers are necessarily bound to one side of the Force.

Actually yes they are. Force Lightning for example is for the most part a dark side only thing, and using it even with the best of intentions will lead a Jedi towards the dark side. There's only a few exceptions for this, where someone was able to use lightning and not turn.

What powers Kyle used in the video games isn't canon however. Gameplay mechanics are never considered canon, and that includes what powers you can use.

Jedi don't reject emotions, its impossible. If that were true, then ever jedi in the movies has failed at being a jedi.

Sorry should have reworded it to be "TRY" to reject emotion...

Not like the Code says

"There is no emotion, there is peace"

and one must understand both sides to fully "control" and "become one" with the force

Luke rejected the Dark side, and he was one of the few Jedi who could truly become one with the force.

Jedi don't reject emotions, its impossible. If that were true, then ever jedi in the movies has failed at being a jedi.

True understanding. Just as every Sith in the books and movies have failed to follow the Sith Code.

To clarify, it's hard to follow the philosophies as they were originally intended or revised in the case of the Jedi Code.

If a Jedi follows the revised Code with the Council's interpretation of it, they will either A. Become mindless automatons with no feelings of their own, or B. Fall because they can't take the stress. NO Jedi in the movies followed the Code that strictly.

And on the other side, if the Sith Code is followed logically, it's simply a guideline to bettering yourself in a passionate culture where the Jedi Code has no meaning or place.

Sorry should have reworded it to be "TRY" to reject emotion...

No they don't, and you don't understand what the code is actually trying to say.

It means that you should not base decisions on emotions, but rather make decisions when you are at peace and able to look at a situation without emotions clouding the issue.