As in thread, is concealment viable or should I switch to lethality? For pvp. I feel like i can't do much with concealment, seems like I'm just getting outmatched by every other class.

For Pvp, concealment is better, especially for new players to the class, as it's burst is better.

 

A good concealment operative can 1v1 any spec in the game without too much trouble.

 

Quick guide to help:

 

You are a melee class.

 

Your Burst is Volatile Substance-> (Ability, to let it prime)-> Backstab (The poison from backstab triggers volatile substance)

 

When your burst is not up, use Veiled Strike to gain Tactical Advantages, and Laceration to deal high amounts of damage.

 

Try to keep 2 Kolto Probes on yourself whenever people are attacking you

 

Use your roll when the enemy is about to use their powerful attack, so that you avoid the attack.

 

 

Operative has a high skill cap, and you need to know what the hard hitting abilities are for all 24 specs in order to play the class to the fullest.

 

Also if you don't know how to play concealment, Lethality will be even more confusing

I disagree with concealment having a high skill cap. In it's current iteration concealment represents the most simplistic boring rotation in the game. Now keep in mind I have played this specialization since the launch of the game, and its just become easier and easier over time, now its pretty much jugg with stealth in terms of difficulty. The rotation difficulty went from about a 7 to about a 4 out of 10. I don't know about others but id like to see concealment become interesting again. It really irritates me when I see operatives trash talking madness sorcs, accusing them of taking the easy route. Its just really ironic. If you want high skill cap go play annihilation marauder, IO mercenary or engineering sniper. Other than that Bioware has done a pretty decent job of casualizing all specializations, especially in comparison to their original form.

 

I for one would like to see the return of hidden strike, and the removal volatile substance. I don't know how other operatives feel, but volatile substance seems like a better fit for lethality, and lethal strike would be better suited in concealment with acid blade tied to it, along with a substantial buff to the damage over time that acid blade deals.

 

Lethality really desperately needs something. Either a surge buff to corrosive assault critical damage, or shorter stronger damage over time abilities. In PVP lethality and concealment hardly feel like dps specs anymore, and more like a hybrid healer dps. Sure they can 1v1 just about anything, but this is not Blade and Soul, and 1v1 arenas are non existent in SWTOR. Moreover, I don't care who you are no one wants to guard a node EVERY single game. I'm pretty convinced the general consensus is to reduce survive-ability and give operative a stronger dps core, more interesting rotation, and slightly less survive-ability. Something along the lines, of removing evasion from either the first or second roll in concealment, so that the operative is only granted one free evasion, yet still retain the same mobility, and a marginal increase to damage, preferably acid blade. The acid blade buff is just too short right now, and deals hardly any damage despite its 30% armor pen, it just doesn't feel strong.

I

I for one would like to see the return of hidden strike, and the removal volatile substance. I don't know how other operatives feel, but volatile substance seems like a better fit for lethality, and lethal strike would be better suited in concealment with acid blade tied to it, along with a substantial buff to the damage over time that acid blade deals.

 

This. Also the 7/10 to 4/10 analogy is about right, class is boring.

snip

 

The rotation is pretty easy, especially in PvP, I don't think anyone believes otherwise. The part about surviving is the hard one. Classes that rely on dodging and combos usually are the hardest to play in MMOs and Operative is the closest thing we have in SWTOR.

 

To be as effective as an dps as other classes you need to play a lot better, utilize cleanses roots and positioning more. To use the defensive cooldown (Roll) you need to take a lot more into consideration than other classes, especially since you're using a GCD - and you need to keep that in mind everytime your roll is off cooldown.

 

Sure, Annihilation Marauders can also benefit from all that knowledge but it's not that necessary for them. They are difficult in another way.

When people say DPS scoundrels have a high skill cap it's not the DPS rotation they are referring to. The DPS rotation is pretty easy.

 

The class has almost no defensive cooldowns so you can't stand there and exchange blows like other classes. The class survives by rotating control abilities, super fast player reaction speed, rolling hots, and timing rolls perfectly to avoid damage. Any mistakes made means the player takes too damage or just simply dies. There is almost no room for forgiveness.

 

The only reason you would ever choose to play concealment is for the enjoyment factor. The spec's damage is among the lowest in the game and it's not competitive with other classes. The class can perform very well in the right hands, but other classes will produce better damage more effectively.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Fellow-Canadian

Snip

 

I'll admit, I didn't start playing operative until fairly recently (2.0 era, forgot when exactly) I just call it a high skill cap because the difference between bad and good operatives is like night and day sometimes.

 

As for lethality, I am that idiot who plays it a lot in warzones, I would suggest:

 

Make Fatality also make Corrosive Assault autocrit. If that's too much of a damage increase, limit it to once every 20 seconds, or every other fatality.

 

Quickening should be off the GCD, more as a quality of life thing.

 

Fragmentation Grenade should spread dots, not Carbine Burst, and it should spread both dots.

 

It would be nice if operative got Orbital Strike back to help with their sucky AOE damage (Along with an OS buff. Maybe not as strong as it used to be, which factoring with health levels would be around 13K-14K crits, but make it punish people for standing inside the giant red circle again)

I for one would like to see the return of hidden strike, and the removal volatile substance. I don't know how other operatives feel, but volatile substance seems like a better fit for lethality, and lethal strike would be better suited in concealment with acid blade tied to it, along with a substantial buff to the damage over time that acid blade deals.

 

Same here, Volatile Substance doesn't make much sense to me in the Concealment spec and should be moved to Lethality which is all about dots and poison.

BW should have just removed the secondary function from Hidden Strike and just make it a stealth-only opener but instead they just removed the entire ability.

A lot of operatives hit a point of no return against many other specs if they make a mistake. If an ops health get to low he has to use too many cds to stay alive and thats where the learning curve comes from. One mistake against a burst class and you'll be running in circles for the next minute trying to get out of execute range.

 

Playing an op also takes a good understanding of resolve so your locking someone down instead of just white barring them. VS is also on a long cd for a burst ability compared to other melee specs. Its one of the few burst abilities just like sticky nade and AP that can be purged by a few classes.

 

Whenever you ask a question on the forums people will always reply as though your an idiot. However you are correct its not currently an easy class to play but it does have a easy rotation or priority list of abilities which ever term you prefer.

 

Another issue with ops is if your not lucky with crits it can sometimes take too long to take someone down, even 1v1. It is the best 1v1 class but in no way is it the best burst class.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Chimerako

To further make the point about playing an op is its hectic nature. For example while playing a jugg i can use ravage to root apply decent dps and in a relaxed moment evaluate the target to see what dcd i may need to apply. All that is taking place WHILE im doing dps. Op are for the most part disengaging the target to roll through damage or apply hots. Sure you can throw a nade or a few other ranged abilities but ops can have huge gaps in dps if not played correctly.

I for one would like to see the return of hidden strike, and the removal volatile substance. I don't know how other operatives feel, but volatile substance seems like a better fit for lethality, and lethal strike would be better suited in concealment with acid blade tied to it, along with a substantial buff to the damage over time that acid blade deals

 

^ This.

 

or at least make VS tick instantly,rather than having a 2sec Delay to it.

Edited April 7, 2016 by ahzecklawd

^ This.

 

or at least make VS tick instantly,rather than having a 2sec Delay to it.

 

The 2 sec delay is alright in some instances... it'd be amazing if we could apply it from stealth.

I used to main concealment and even wrote half of a PVP guide for the spec for Dulfy that is seemingly never going to be posted but these days I find myself hardly ever playing the spec.

 

And it's almost entirely due to how much of a chore it is to stick to targets in team fight scenarios where your opponents can at least sort of play. Our leap is laughably buggy and has a painfully long cool down, sneak is brief and unreliable thanks to no immunity (it is almost useless if you are not white-barred), exfiltrate is unreliable as a gap closer because it is so essential to not dying thanks to our poor DCDs, and our slow/root are both off the gcd with the latter requiring melee range.

 

Powertechs, marauders, and juggernauts are all FAR better off in this department. Short cooldown leaps. Periodic CC and/or slow immunity from active abilities or passive buffs. Slows and roots on gap closers or abilities they'll be using rotationally. And DCDs that don't require them to spend a GCD rolling 10 meters to some spot that they may not actually want to be at.

 

If concealment is ever going to compete in team fights with these classes, particularly maras and pts, we are going to need a lot more help sticking to targets. Nerf exfiltrate in favor of a better shield probe and make stim boost operate, by default, similarly to how it does with the revitalizers utility so we can actually play around with our heroic utilities more.

 

I mostly sin tank these days and I absolutely adore the new utility in the masterful tree -- the 50% speed boost for 9 seconds every 18 seconds on shock. I would love to see the hit and run utility operate like that and be bumped into the masterful tree for operatives.

Edited April 8, 2016 by yellow_

yellow_, I am glad that yo posted. What happened to that guide? Could you post at least here or on reddit? Or maybe mail it to people (like me) who would be very interested in reading it?

 

Cheers

Yes I'd be very interested in seeing the guide as well. Only been playing Scrapper since 3.0, but enjoy it a lot. I definitely still need help though seeing how rekt I got in the 1v1 tourney. Solo rating on Starsmurf is horrendous!

 

I'm a super regstar tho!