SMASHED BY A MACK TRUCK

I stopped playing (but kept subbing) with the announcement of Ossus because [reasons] (stated many times in earlier posts and irrelevant to this post). I've logged in a couple times since then, lurked around here on and off, and generally just stayed loosely tracking.

But the rededication by the studio to investing in this game and taking feedback has been refreshing, and so I finally watched the the livestream which was overall great. I pretty much loved every single part of it--everything--until a mack truck came and blindsided me at ~46:40. It was roadkill for me after that. The runaway truck was a slide that read "Acquiring Items at 75." Alas, it seems that Galactic Renown XP (RXP) and the "new currency" won't be obtainable until level 75. This is a very bad design decision. For me as a "casual" RPing, story-loving, PvPing, altoholic player, this sort of "RXP-Gating" is game breaking.

THE STATE OF AFFAIRS PRE-GALACTIC COMMAND

The worst part of GC/5.0 for me was the effect on base/vanilla game play. I cannot emphasize this enough. Prior to 5.0, the base game was integrated with the max-level game. You progressed from level one to the max level, earning better gear, currency, knowledge, crafting, etc. along the way. You could never do everything of course, but that was never the point.

For example, in PvP, you could earn comms while leveling that were usable at max-level. In PvE, you could earn crystals that were usable at max level. As a crafter, I could craft and sell the best possible items before reaching level max. This created a seamless connection between leveling and the max-level game. You never felt like leveling/re-rolling was "pointless."

XP-GATING AND THE LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES

5.0 changed that and erected an arbitrary brick firewall between 1-69 and 70. Until you hit level 70, you couldn't do anything in the base game to earn CXP, currency, etc. toward the max-level game play. And then, at 70, you started all over again with CXP from level 1. Now it will be RXP, and you will be starting from scratch at RXP level 1 after grinding 74 levels (or maybe buying a Master's Datacron). This is not trivial.

The legacy of 5.0 is that it created two separate games. One that's pre-70, and then one that happens post-70. And with 6.0, you'll now have to level 74 levels before anything you earn pre-75 counts for anything.

For example, this means that low/mids PvP will remain shriveled as happened with 5.0. Low/mids PvP is an enjoyable part of the game for many people, but why invest in it if you can't earn any useful rewards/XP/currency from it? That's not a hypothetical question--Galactic Command killed low/mids PvP (and many of us have shown our data for this in the past).

This isn't just about PvP, it's about class stories, FPs, GSF, heroics, and all the awesome stuff in the base game. It's all "unrewarding" (back off you "the game itself is the reward" types:p) until the arbitrary level 75? Why does this need to be the case?

END GAME AND MAX LEVEL ARE NOT SYNONYMS

This should be obvious, but it's worth pointing out that "max-level" game play isn't necessarily synonymous with "end game." It depends on what one considers "end game." If it's merely the arbitrary gate between a level and a piece of content, then that's one thing.

But if "end game" is that point in the game where you've completed the story, side quests, low/mid PvP, knowing the class, or whatever else, and then are ready to take on "recyclable" and more challenging content, then that's totally separate from any arbitrary character level. A newer player could reach 70 at some point well before finishing all the story, knowing nothing about the end game content. And a seasoned player might be able to buy a Master's Datacron and immediately jump into ranked PvP without touching the story. And everything in between. So "max level" is not some inherently meaningful transition point, some indicator of achievement or readiness. It's just an arbitrary number that by itself indicates nothing. So there is no good reason to lock

("AND ENJOY IT") IS IMPLIED IN PLAY WHAT YOU WANT

Devs, you are claiming a goal of "Play What You Want." This is a great goal. For me, and I know I'm not alone, the vanilla class stories are the best part of the game. My favorite thing to do is re-roll a new toon, starting at level one, and then slowly level that toon through class story, heroics, planetary arcs, FPs, and lowbies/midbies PvP. But if I can't earn the 6.0 goodies by enjoying the parts of the game I love--things we've been rewarded for in the past--then "play what you want' rings hollow.

I'll try to address some of the weaker counter arguments up front:

• "But leveling is faster than ever before" - on hand hand, it's not fast enough if your playstyle includes class stories. These basically have a speed limit associated with them if your goal is to complete them (as an RPer, that is a goal for me). But on the other hand, leveling is too fast if you want to play low/mid PvP. I actually use the White Acute Module so that I don't level too fast.
  
• "But Master's Datacron" - when I first saw this, I was like 'i'm gonna buy tons of these". But I didn't because I soon realized it blocks you out of low/mids PvP. And it's immersion breaking (for me) to have all my LvL 70 abilities on Tython. (Now, if they offered a datacron that allowed you to start earning RXP and currency at level one, there might be some appeal in that:rolleyes:)
  
• "But you just wanna get gear the easy way" - yeah, maybe. I dunno. I guess that's the meaning of "play as you want"?
  
• "But you should just play for the inherent fun, not for gear" - this one...is just not worth responding to.
  

So in sum, it shouldn't matter if everyone agrees with my views of how I like to play the game. Play what you want must imply "enjoy" playing what you want and I enjoy playing from level 1. Does that mean that every idiosyncrasy has to be indulged by the devs? No. But I'm far from alone in thinking that the vanilla game here is fantastic and integral. And so at least that should be included in "Play What You Want ("And Enjoy It")...

Tl;dr: devs, please drop the RXP-gating firewall at level 75 and allow us to earn the new XP and currency from level one (and if you've already planned on doing that, and I misunderstood:o, then bravo and thanks!)

TL;DR ..................

I've read posts like this before and all I read is "blah blah blah, game too hard/boring/not how I think BW should do things (how dare they, right?) now, want free gear without working for it or earn it" CXP was DESIGNED for max level reward from quests that would normally give you nothing but credits at max so it makes perfect sense for RXP to also not be available til new max level of 75.......Play your way means just that, play your way........shells are available to you at level 1 with more powerful mods/armoring etc available as you level.

With all due respect, all I hear is a RP/PVP'er complaining because they have to level to 75 and start all over with RXP... the whole point of any game is to PLAY IT. You're argument indicates you've forgotten that lil part.....just my 2 cents adjusted for inflation :-)

But the rededication by the studio to investing in this game and taking feedback has been refreshing.

I agree with this. I think since Anthem launched it seems the choke leash was opened up a bit for SWTOR. I don't think it's a coincidence. The studio has undoubtedly made impressive efforts to better their communication. This is awesome.

For example, in PvP, you could earn comms while leveling that were usable at max-level. In PvE, you could earn crystals that were usable at max level. As a crafter, I could craft and sell the best possible items before reaching level max. This created a seamless connection between leveling and the max-level game. You never felt like leveling/re-rolling was "pointless."

Right, this is well said and exactly what I believe, too. The early gameplay years back on SWTOR really was building a foundation developmentally for many players, just by how the easier activities tended to be rudimentary forms of what was to come later on.

As Joon says, in the past the players were rewarded for their participation in lower level activities and lesser forms of what would be considered end game activities for lvl 70s.

PVPing at low levels granted players not only experience for 70s PVP, but an accrual of spendable 70 lvl currency for gears that the low level player could save up and use.

Imo this was a smart way to get players to learn how to play as well as giving them an opportunity to prepare for lvl 70s PVP by also offering a very worthy reward that was usable by the player once they got their character to 70.

5.0 changed that and erected an arbitrary brick firewall between 1-69 and 70. Until you hit level 70, you couldn't do anything in the base game to earn CXP, currency, etc. toward the max-level game play. And then, at 70, you started all over again with CXP from level 1. Now it will be RXP, and you will be starting from scratch at RXP level 1 after grinding 74 levels (or maybe buying a Master's Datacron). This is not trivial.

I hope it isn't going to be this way. ^

Hopefully they recognize these advancement gates they add to slow gearing up only serve to make the game disjointed and far less enjoyable. There shouldn't be a big disconnect between low level activities and cap level activities.

If anything, just the state of lowbies PVP is proving just how bad of an idea it is to minimalise rewards for lower level activities. With absolutely ZERO reason to queue for lowbies, no one queues lowbies now. Lowbies used to be the most active facet of PVP, not just because it was the first opportunity for players to PVP but also because as a lowbie we legitimately could improve ourselves through playing in lowbies. How?

Well, for one we got WZ comms as rewards along with credits. These could be used to buy WZ Medpacks/WZ Adrenals or even saved up to use for gears only available once the character reached cap level. Many PVPers would choose to level through PVP from 10-cap level just because the comms were worth it alone, but on top of that you really got to learn your class's abilities in PVP from the frequent queueing of lowbies.

The legacy of 5.0 is that it created two separate games. One that's pre-70, and then one that happens post-70. And with 6.0, you'll now have to level 74 levels before anything you earn pre-75 counts for anything.

It sounds like a repeat of global command crates. What I dislike about this type of system is you only focus on getting to cap level asap, because you gain nothing for spending or investing time into the lower tier activities. They are nothing but chore-like, and this is why buying Master Datacrons has become the norm, because any opportunity to skip meaningless time investments will be taken advantage of if possible. I guess kudos to BW if that's their reasoning, if anything I am quite sure Master Datacrons are highly popular items off the CM. Personally, I'd rather see BW find ways to reward and entice players to play lower level content and not skip it, lower levels can be fun and equally fulfilling for players if done right by the game.

Devs, you are claiming a goal of "Play What You Want." This is a great goal. For me, and I know I'm not alone, the vanilla class stories are the best part of the game. My favorite thing to do is re-roll a new toon, starting at level one, and then slowly level that toon through class story, heroics, planetary arcs, FPs, and lowbies/midbies PvP. But if I can't earn the 6.0 goodies by enjoying the parts of the game I love--things we've been rewarded for in the past--then "play what you want' rings hollow.

This is right. I realize we have some that actually parrot this idea that the players really can play the way they want right now, and sure, they can. They also end up missing out on tons of stuff unless they actually enjoy Ossus grinding for months on end and doing PVE stuff instead of PVP stuff to gear up for PVP.

Mind you, this only begins once the player has advanced their toon to 70 level.

This is not logical. You can't expect people to drudge along through 69 levels, and afford them nothing to show for it, nothing that can be used for them once they get their toon to 70. All this does is make people either skip the entire process with Master Datacrons or even worse just stop participating in anything lower level just because it's just wasting time when the only rewards worthwhile are given for doing 70 lvl activities.

By removing every useful incentive and reward from all low level activities, the game is suffering in these areas now which only means you end up with far less skilled/knowledgable people at the top because even noobs learn fast there's no reason to indulge in lowbie activities when everything worthwhile gained is at 70. Many people determine they might as well coast to cap level asap, and learn the game then.

the whole point of any game is to PLAY IT. You're argument indicates you've forgotten that lil part.....just my 2 cents adjusted for inflation :-)

Well, this statement proves that many of us have far different perspectives when it comes to games and why we play them. For me the point of a game is not to play it, but to enjoy it. If they make bad design changes I won't play it.

Now, some may feel the game has not made bad game design changes and that's fine to take that perspective, too.

But my opinion doesn't really mean a thing. BW is going to continue to reap what they sow regardless if I like the changes or not. The important thing is how the majority of players respond to how the new gearing is added.

If new game designs are poorly done, the game will continue to suffer. If the new gearing and other features are successful and done well, the game should flourish and that's what I am hoping for.

"Acquiring Items at 75." Alas, it seems that Galactic Renown XP (RXP) and the "new currency" won't be obtainable until level 75. This is a very bad design decision. For me as a "casual" RPing, story-loving, PvPing, altoholic player, this sort of "RXP-Gating" is game breaking.

I only skimmed your post after this part. It's clear you missed a lot of details in the stream. Yes, Galactic Command is changing to Galactic Renown. Yes, everyone is being reset back to level 1. But, GR is an entirely supplemental way to obtain gear.

First, RXP will be acquired directly alongside XP, and you will continue to acquire RXP even at level 75 because it will be based upon how much XP you would have earned, which makes me thing that we will accrue RXP from level 1 and is why I asked that question in the other thread.

Second, the gear we acquire from a GR crate will now be based upon our item level and not our GR level. Gone will be those days of being in full 246+ gear and opening a tier 1 GC grate just to disintegrate everything because it contains absolutely nothing for you. Now, every single crate you open, from Renown level 1 to however high it goes, will drop gear based on your item rating. If you're in full 258 gear you're not going to get nothing but 230 gear because you opened a GR 1 box. Those tiers are gone.

Third, gone are CXP drops from all sources. Why? Because with 6.0 we'll be getting gear wherever we got a CXP drop and that gear drop rating will be based upon our gear rating. Run Esseles or Black Talon SM now and you get three or four CXP drops that are barely enough to get you a single tier 4 crate. After 6.0, instead of CXP drops you'll get actual gear, and because you're earning RXP alongside your regular XP, you may go up a level or two in Renown, which means one or two Renown crates to open, which will drop gear based on your item rating. That's three or four pieces of gear from boss fights (and if you're in a group those drops are individual so everyone gets their own drop), and one or two pieces of gear from Renown crates, and all of it will be based upon your item rating. If you didn't get a single item you wanted for that character, but there was something you would like to give to an alt you can because everything will be bound to legacy (even full left side). If you decide to break it all down, whether you're a crafter or not you'll get materials that you can use to acquire the gear you do want (Charles Points).

Your post is based upon a flawed understanding of the stream because it's clear you missed the part were we will now be getting gear drops based upon our item rating and not our GC or character level. The only specific gate Eric mentioned during the stream was that a person would need to be of a specific (unstated during the stream) item rating for the system to start dropping gear with set bonuses and tactical items.

I only skimmed your post after this part. It's clear you missed a lot of details in the stream. Yes, Galactic Command is changing to Galactic Renown. Yes, everyone is being reset back to level 1. But, GR is an entirely supplemental way to obtain gear.

 

First, RXP will be acquired directly alongside XP, and you will continue to acquire RXP even at level 75 because it will be based upon how much XP you would have earned, which makes me thing that we will accrue RXP from level 1 and is why I asked that question in the other thread.

 

...

I emphasized the white part from your post above. This is actually the question here. It's the point. And it was not answered in the livestream (as you agree with). I didn't miss any details from the stream. I watched it closely. The portion that starts at 46:40, where they explain what "play as you want" means, leads in with a slide that refers to "acquiring items at 75" which strongly suggests (but does not prove) that the RXP begins at level 75, as it is today with CXP. Would love to be wrong here.

And I'm not really talking about gearing in the abstract, or gearing just for endgame (if you get a chance, please read the OP). I'm talking specifically about the effect of introducing a new XP and currency that can't be earned prior to 75. And how that discourages players from doing pre-75 activities such as lowbies PvP and FPs.

There's no reason why an item-rating based gearing system can't start awarding gear, giving RE opportunities for that gear, and allowing the the RXP and vendor currencies (obviously in smaller amounts) that will useful at max-level to begin accruing at level 1. We've had this before too...

Not to be funny, but you do get a reward sub 75. You get XP, wich translates in new abilties every other level.

Whether it was your intent or not, that was funny:D....

I emphasized the white part from your post above. This is actually the question here. It's the point. And it was not answered in the livestream (as you agree with). I didn't miss any details from the stream. I watched it closely. The portion that starts at 46:40, where they explain what "play as you want" means, leads in with a slide that refers to "acquiring items at 75" which strongly suggests (but does not prove) that the RXP begins at level 75, as it is today with CXP. Would love to be wrong here.

 

And I'm not really talking about gearing in the abstract, or gearing just for endgame (if you get a chance, please read the OP). I'm talking specifically about the effect of introducing a new XP and currency that can't be earned prior to 75. And how that discourages players from doing pre-75 activities such as lowbies PvP and FPs.

 

There's no reason why an item-rating based gearing system can't start awarding gear, giving RE opportunities for that gear, and allowing the the RXP and vendor currencies (obviously in smaller amounts) that will useful at max-level to begin accruing at level 1. We've had this before too...

I think you did miss a point. Galactic Renown will be a completely supplemental system for acquiring gear because we will now be getting direct gear drops. From all over the place. It was clear to me from the stream that they're turning TOR into a Monty Hall campaign. For anyone not familiar with DnD, a Monty Hall campaign is one where a generous Game Master (the Devs) award the players with huge amounts of treasure. The relevance of Galactic Command and GC crates for gearing is being replaced by direct gear drops, gear drops will be everywhere, and will be based upon our item rating.

I agree with Joon, Lhance and Phazon.

I want to add my own voice that opening up the currency so the Vanilla game and lowbies and Mids will once again mesh with end game is vital for the games continued health.

5.0 did effectively kill lvling up in pvp (which is how I used to exclusively lvl’d my extra Alts) It may not have been intended, but that’s the consequence of the gearing system they introduced with 5.0

6.0 is a fresh chance to fix this flaw and all it requires is looking into Joon’s suggestion to integrate the new currency and RXP from lvl 1 or even lvl 10 (which is when you can start pvping).

I watched/skimmed the stream late last night, but I felt pretty happy with what they said was going to take place regarding gearing.

Gear drops are going to happen in flashpoints. They're going to happen anywhere you got cxp drops. Ops bosses, FP bosses, etc.

The armor shells with newly built in set bonuses will be what drops.

The armorings/mods/enhancements that match your level will be added by you from however you acquire them.

I didn't feel any of this was implied that it ONLY happened at level 75.

Now, admittedly, if you're talking about new END GAME level gear...the new components and what not, since end game means highest level/hardest content (to me anyway) that makes sense you'd start working toward that at level 75 in 6.0. Actually, compared to now, you'd conceivably have part of it done since the shells with set bonuses drop during all parts of the game, not just at 75.

Now, if you're a player who ONLY PVP's, or RP's, the impression I got was that you could RE drops you don't like into some new type of currency (the "Chuck bucks" they joked about in the stream) and spend those at a vendor for specific gear if you weren't getting it any other way.

They didn't say it was only at 75, I'm taking that, until proven otherwise (because they mentioned it was for the armor shells), that it can happen before 75.

How that works, or doesn't work, specifically with PVP, I don't know. I skipped the PVP part of the stream, it doesn't really apply to me and I didn't have time to watch the entire thing.

Long story short, I don't think it will be as bad as you (OP) are fearing it's going to be.

In the mean time, start saving all your command crates. ALL of them. if they get converted to the new system command crates, you'll have ways to get new gear very quickly once 6.0 hits.

I think you did miss a point. Galactic Renown will be a completely supplemental system for acquiring gear because we will now be getting direct gear drops. From all over the place. It was clear to me from the stream that they're turning TOR into a Monty Hall campaign. For anyone not familiar with DnD, a Monty Hall campaign is one where a generous Game Master (the Devs) award the players with huge amounts of treasure. The relevance of Galactic Command and GC crates for gearing is being replaced by direct gear drops, gear drops will be everywhere, and will be based upon our item rating.

You're still not getting what the OP is about. It's not about whether GR is primary, supplemental, etc. It's not about gearing...

You're still not getting what the OP is about. It's not about whether GR is primary, supplemental, etc. It's not about gearing...

Then you've done a very poor job of communicating your point. Your OP is riddled with language about gear:

• "Acquiring Items at 75" - read gearing
  
• Galactic Renown XP (RXP) and the "new currency" won't be obtainable until level 75 - an assumption that admittedly needs clarification but one that doesn't really jibe with the language of the stream
  
• The worst part of GC/5.0... was the effect on base/vanilla game play... [and progressing] from level one to the max level, earning better GEAR
  
• PVP comms earned "while leveling that were usable at max-level," and PVE crystals "that were usable at max level" - to acquire gear at max level
  
• "5.0 changed that and erected an arbitrary brick firewall... until you hit level 70, you couldn't do anything in the base game to earn CXP, currency, etc. toward the max-level game play - i.e. GEARING because that's all CXP and it's currencies are used for
  
• "this means that low/mids PvP will remain shriveled as happened with 5.0... why invest in it if you can't earn any useful rewards/XP/currency from it" - does not jibe with the language of the stream, bolster in PVP will be max gear rating, and gear can be acquired from PVP as stated in the stream
  
• Galactic Command killed low/mids PvP - GC is all about gearing but you insist that your post is not about gearing
  
• "it's about class stories... and all the awesome stuff in the base game. It's all "unrewarding" (what rewards are you wanting?)... until the arbitrary level 75?" - based on? Are you asking to receive end game gear from your first mission on your starter world?
  
• "Devs... are claiming a goal of "Play What You Want," [which is] a great goal for me... but if I can't earn the 6.0 goodies by enjoying the parts of the game I love... then "play what you want' rings hollow." - So you want set bonuses and tactical items and end game gear in low level, which has never been the case
  

Except for the section about end game and max level your whole post is about gearing. Point after point is about gearing and how 5.0 screwed up everything by gating all progression beyond level 70. The only part I agree with you on is that they need to clarify whether RXP is earned from level 1 or only at level 75 (or some other arbitrary level). The way it was phrased makes me think that RXP will be earned from level 1. This is based on a number of things from the stream.

• Gear from GR crates will be based on item rating not GR level
  
• RXP will be earned along side XP; even at max level since it will be calculated based on the amount of XP one would have received
  
• GR levels will reset at various points and one's GR level will be an indicator of how much they have played
  

If I'm wrong about GR, that RXP will only be earned at max or higher level, then I agree that is a mistake based upon everything else that was said during the stream. My impression is that it won't be gated by level and that is something that Eric needs to clarify sooner rather than later; regardless of their intent for GR to be a supplemental system for acquiring gear.

But, even if GR is gated behind some level, the fact is it is a supplemental system for acquiring gear and everything that comes from GR can be acquired from simply playing the game since we'll now be getting gear drops from just about everywhere.

ETA: I apologize if I'm coming off as argumentative. I'm not trying to be. I'm not feeling well (going on three weeks with a sinus infection) and it's probably coming through in my posts.

Then you've done a very poor job of communicating your point. Your OP is riddled with language about gear:

• "Acquiring Items at 75" - read gearing
  
• Galactic Renown XP (RXP) and the "new currency" won't be obtainable until level 75 - an assumption that admittedly needs clarification but one that doesn't really jibe with the language of the stream
  
• The worst part of GC/5.0... was the effect on base/vanilla game play... [and progressing] from level one to the max level, earning better GEAR
  
• PVP comms earned "while leveling that were usable at max-level," and PVE crystals "that were usable at max level" - to acquire gear at max level
  
• "5.0 changed that and erected an arbitrary brick firewall... until you hit level 70, you couldn't do anything in the base game to earn CXP, currency, etc. toward the max-level game play - i.e. GEARING because that's all CXP and it's currencies are used for
  
• "this means that low/mids PvP will remain shriveled as happened with 5.0... why invest in it if you can't earn any useful rewards/XP/currency from it" - does not jibe with the language of the stream, bolster in PVP will be max gear rating, and gear can be acquired from PVP as stated in the stream
  
• Galactic Command killed low/mids PvP - GC is all about gearing but you insist that your post is not about gearing
  
• "it's about class stories... and all the awesome stuff in the base game. It's all "unrewarding" (what rewards are you wanting?)... until the arbitrary level 75?" - based on? Are you asking to receive end game gear from your first mission on your starter world?
  
• "Devs... are claiming a goal of "Play What You Want," [which is] a great goal for me... but if I can't earn the 6.0 goodies by enjoying the parts of the game I love... then "play what you want' rings hollow." - So you want set bonuses and tactical items and end game gear in low level, which has never been the case
  

 

Except for the section about end game and max level your whole post is about gearing. Point after point is about gearing and how 5.0 screwed up everything by gating all progression beyond level 70. The only part I agree with you on is that they need to clarify whether RXP is earned from level 1 or only at level 75 (or some other arbitrary level). The way it was phrased makes me think that RXP will be earned from level 1. This is based on a number of things from the stream.

• Gear from GR crates will be based on item rating not GR level
  
• RXP will be earned along side XP; even at max level since it will be calculated based on the amount of XP one would have received
  
• GR levels will reset at various points and one's GR level will be an indicator of how much they have played
  

If I'm wrong about GR, that RXP will only be earned at max or higher level, then I agree that is a mistake based upon everything else that was said during the stream. My impression is that it won't be gated by level and that is something that Eric needs to clarify sooner rather than later; regardless of their intent for GR to be a supplemental system for acquiring gear.

I think you missed the point. But I can understand how as Joon had a lot to get out. But the gist is this :

1. Allowing the RXP and Chuck Bucks be obtainable as you lvl up would incentivise people to play certain content as they lvld and not feel like they have to rush to lvl 75 to participate in the system. That is what Joon means. People can then enjoy all aspects of the game at a reasonable lvling rate and not feel they need to but pushing lvl 75 content to gear up. It gives them something to work towards.

2. GC changed the way you could save up for pvp gear as you lvld up. This did kill off lowbie and Mids pvp because people got no rewards for playing it. On top of that, gearing in 5.0 was so horrendous and unfriendly to Alts that people forgot about rerolling new toon’s because they had to spend all their time grinding at lvl 70 to gear one Alt. That also meant less people lvling up in lowbies and Mids.

I think that covers the most important points.

1. Allowing the RXP and Chuck Bucks be obtainable as you lvl up would incentivise people to play certain content as they lvld and not feel like they have to rush to lvl 75 to participate in the system. That is what Joon means. People can then enjoy all aspects of the game at a reasonable lvling rate and not feel they need to but pushing lvl 75 content to gear up. It gives them something to work towards.

How does that not already happen now, though?

You're arguing that you should be able to gain ranks for a supplementary system to end-game gearing. Galactic Renown offers nothing more than that.

The fact that all gear obtained through Galactic Renown will be Bound to Legacy negates this being necessary. There's no reason for a supplementary end-game system to begin pre-end-game. At the least, acting like this is "being hit with a truck," or something similar, as OP said, is a pretty gross exaggeration.

2. GC changed the way you could save up for pvp gear as you lvld up. This did kill off lowbie and Mids pvp because people got no rewards for playing it. On top of that, gearing in 5.0 was so horrendous and unfriendly to Alts that people forgot about rerolling new toon’s because they had to spend all their time grinding at lvl 70 to gear one Alt. That also meant less people lvling up in lowbies and Mids.

I think you're making a conclusion where we don't have evidence. Mids PvP in particular never popped very frequently; with current XP leveling rates, it isn't necessarily efficient to do warzones.

The "gear being unfriendly to alts" issue is already negated, for reasons I've listed in my previous response. 6.0 gear will be Legacy gear, which will, of course, mean that it will be absolutely alt-friendly! A single toon could theoretically provide gear for any alts and specs you need.

I think you missed the point. But I can understand how as Joon had a lot to get out. But the gist is this :

 

1. Allowing the RXP and Chuck Bucks be obtainable as you lvl up would incentivise people to play certain content as they lvld and not feel like they have to rush to lvl 75 to participate in the system. That is what Joon means. People can then enjoy all aspects of the game at a reasonable lvling rate and not feel they need to but pushing lvl 75 content to gear up. It gives them something to work towards.

 

2. GC changed the way you could save up for pvp gear as you lvld up. This did kill off lowbie and Mids pvp because people got no rewards for playing it. On top of that, gearing in 5.0 was so horrendous and unfriendly to Alts that people forgot about rerolling new toon’s because they had to spend all their time grinding at lvl 70 to gear one Alt. That also meant less people lvling up in lowbies and Mids.

 

 

I think that covers the most important points.

For your point #1, what's the goal for pushing to get "Chuck Bucks" and RXP before level 75? If I remember the stream correctly, and it looks like I'm going to need to review it again, that new currency would be used to get armor shells (and other gearing pieces) with specific set bonuses. They stated that the shells would be available from drops in many places in the game, and given how they explained it I interpreted it as that would be at all levels. That the empty armor shells would not be level specific.

I'm not sure what's changing for the negative.

2) I haven't looked at the pvp section of the live stream, so I can't comment one way or the other.

Then you've done a very poor job of communicating your point. Your OP is riddled with language about gear:

....

 

ETA: I apologize if I'm coming off as argumentative. I'm not trying to be. I'm not feeling well (going on three weeks with a sinus infection) and it's probably coming through in my posts.

Not About Gear

As to being argumentative, I felt as if you were. But then I saw this last part and I understand. So, on this we're cool. I'm not trying to argue, not trying to prove anything. I actually hope I'm wrong about my interpretation of the livestream. But again, I don't see how I can be clearer that I'm not talking about gear.

Even taking the parts you quoted that are "riddled" (i've edited them out for simplicity), I'm repeatedly talking about "RXP" and "currency". Over and over and over again: "RXP" and "currency." I actually went back and looked at the post and the only times I mention the word "gear" is in the section on "counter arguments" that I wanted to address up front. I don't see how it can be any clearer that I'm not focusing on gear than the fact that I don't even use the word. So again, this really is not about gear, other than the fact I suppose since this is an MMO - everything is about gear in some way. If that's your point, fine. Noted. But let me try again (since you say I've done a "very poor job") to explain what this is about.

Different Rewards for the Same Gameplay

Let me offer an illustration that you can think about over the rest of the post. Starting with GC (and especially with the Master's Datacron), you could take a toon, start it at level 70, and do nothing but base class stories from Tython to Corellia and earn CXP, UCs, crates, etc. just doing this content, i.e. without doing "endgame" content. Another player, doing the exact same content, but doing it at level 1-69 wouldn't earn any of these things. So again, 'endgame' and 'max-level' are not synonyms. The devs intentionally wanted people to be incentivized to play any content they wanted to in the game -- and that's a good goal. But doing the same content and getting nothing does not create the same incentives as doing that content and getting at least something. This made doing content pre-70 feel unnecessarily walled off, and discouraging.

The Base Game Playstyle

What Trixx, Lhance, and others have pointed out is that there is a playstyle out there (I'm not alone with it) that involves re-rolling toons and trying new things in the base game. For me, it's replaying class stories, leveling slowly, doing low/mid PvP. Low/mid PvP was one of the most fun parts of the game for me (as someone with very very little time to play) because I could try out new classes and styles while leveling. It's also worth noting that low/mids PvP requires a different set of tactical considerations, and actually is a unique gameplay option in it's own right from lvl 70 PvP.

That's what's kept me subbed since launch. If this isn't your playstyle, you may be unable to empathize. I know many people think of this game as the game after level 70 (usually for endgame "content" reasons). I get that. And understand it. But there is a substantial portion of the player base (not a majority prolly, but more than a trivial minority), that think of this game mostly as vanilla class stories, heroics, and mid/lows PvP. For us, the game kinda dies after reaching max level, and so we re-roll and start over. We enjoy this playstyle. But, like many, we also enjoy parts of the "endgame" so we'd like easily pivot to the endgame (where it actually would be more about gear) whenever we decided to use our currencies and not feel like our previous play was 'wasted.' This is quintessential "play as you want."

Why 5.0 Was a Step Backward for the Base Game

Now, recall the illustration above. The principle problem with 5.0--for my playstyle--is that there were new game currencies, rewards, ranks, and XP that were only available after level 70. To be clear, we've always had gear that was only available at max level (hence why this isn't about gearing), and we've always had content that was only max-level (hence why this isn't an "endgame" issue). What 5.0 did that was new, and IMO a step backwards, was that it: a) separated the ability to earn game currencies from pre-max level players, and b) actively discouraged playing base game content before being a 70 (for at least the reason in "a"). Which leads to the final point.

This Simple "Fix" Hurts No One

This has had a substantial negative impact on the game pre-70, particularly in low/mid PvP, but not only there. It made leveling to 70 feel like a chore, because, unlike pre-GC, you couldn't progress your toon. And this 'gating' doesn't do anything to make the game better for people of other playstyles, so it's one of the many areas where the fix I'm requesting doesn't harm anyone, but it could help some. I usually advocate for these. So my ask is to please make the currencies and RXP available from level 1....

I am in this for endgame content, but I suspect the majority of players, purely numbers-wise, are of the kind Joon is describing - casual players who enjoy the class stories (vanilla and beyond), flashpoints, and a bit of space barbie now and again.

These players tend to come and go, perhaps not as dedicated to logging in as 'endgame' tryhards but I bet their sub and cartel $$ spend just as good as ours.

Endgame Ops and PvP'ers are passionately vocal (i.e. loudmouths with bad manners XD) so maybe it seems like there's more lol!

How does that not already happen now, though?

 

You're arguing that you should be able to gain ranks for a supplementary system to end-game gearing. Galactic Renown offers nothing more than that.

 

The fact that all gear obtained through Galactic Renown will be Bound to Legacy negates this being necessary. There's no reason for a supplementary end-game system to begin pre-end-game. At the least, acting like this is "being hit with a truck," or something similar, as OP said, is a pretty gross exaggeration.

 

 

I think you're making a conclusion where we don't have evidence. Mids PvP in particular never popped very frequently; with current XP leveling rates, it isn't necessarily efficient to do warzones.

 

The "gear being unfriendly to alts" issue is already negated, for reasons I've listed in my previous response. 6.0 gear will be Legacy gear, which will, of course, mean that it will be absolutely alt-friendly! A single toon could theoretically provide gear for any alts and specs you need.

I was just pointing out what Joon was saying. No need to pull my post apart and argue

I am in this for endgame content, but I suspect the majority of players, purely numbers-wise, are of the kind Joon is describing - casual players who enjoy the class stories (vanilla and beyond), flashpoints, and a bit of space barbie now and again.

 

These players tend to come and go, perhaps not as dedicated to logging in as 'endgame' tryhards but I bet their sub and cartel $$ spend just as good as ours.

 

Endgame Ops and PvP'ers are passionately vocal (i.e. loudmouths with bad manners XD) so maybe it seems like there's more lol!

LoL, why can’t we be both endgame tryhards and play like casuals too. I know Lhance and Myself are and obviously Joon is

Not About Gear

 

 

Different Rewards for the Same Gameplay

Let me offer an illustration that you can think about over the rest of the post. Starting with GC (and especially with the Master's Datacron), you could take a toon, start it at level 70, and do nothing but base class stories from Tython to Corellia and earn CXP, UCs, crates, etc. just doing this content, i.e. without doing "endgame" content. Another player, doing the exact same content, but doing it at level 1-69 wouldn't earn any of these things. So again, 'endgame' and 'max-level' are not synonyms. The devs intentionally wanted people to be incentivized to play any content they wanted to in the game -- and that's a good goal. But doing the same content and getting nothing does not create the same incentives as doing that content and getting at least something. This made doing content pre-70 feel unnecessarily walled off, and discouraging.

 

......

 

This Simple "Fix" Hurts No One

This has had a substantial negative impact on the game pre-70, particularly in low/mid PvP, but not only there. It made leveling to 70 feel like a chore, because, unlike pre-GC, you couldn't progress your toon. And this 'gating' doesn't do anything to make the game better for people of other playstyles, so it's one of the many areas where the fix I'm requesting doesn't harm anyone, but it could help some. I usually advocate for these. So my ask is to please make the currencies and RXP available from level 1....

I cut out a lot of your post, but this is the point I was trying to understand where you were coming from.

I can understand, now, what you were trying to say, but I've never considered getting to 70 (regardless of how you do it...grinding heroics / master's datacron / whatever) and THEN going back and doing the story, the "normal" way to play. I've always viewed the master's datacron skip to 70 as an extreme luxury. Since you can use that, and get CXP as you go back through the story...I see why you'd ask to just have RXP available at level 1.

Personally, I don't see the harm in it, but to me, even now that I understand what and why you're asking, I don't see them as being the same thing.

You'll (presumably) still be able to use the same mechanics to skip to 70 (or maybe the datacron gets updated to 75) and then go back and do the story.

But at the end, as I mentioned, I don't see a downside to just getting RXP at level 1 and any new boosted character creation.

Maybe there is a reason for it that they haven't explained.

...

 

Personally, I don't see the harm in it, but to me, even now that I understand what and why you're asking, I don't see them as being the same thing.

You'll (presumably) still be able to use the same mechanics to skip to 70 (or maybe the datacron gets updated to 75) and then go back and do the story.

...

 

Maybe there is a reason for it that they haven't explained.

Appreciate the response, btw. But just to clarify - one of the things that the Master's Datacron does is level you out of low/mids PvP, which as I mentioned is a game within the game that's really enjoyable for a certain group of players. That, and the MD is immersion breaking for RP (at least for me). Having all abilities at lvl 1 when you're a padawan is just odd (for me).

But yea, I don't see the downside to starting the RXP and currency acquisition at level 1...

I had to take a step back. Who knew having a sinus headache for three weeks and feeling like your teeth are going to explode out of your head every time you cough or blow your nose could affect your personality? I've even noticed it while leveling my Operative through GC (the last I need to get to 300); the other night I was getting angry at the character for being a jerk (the guy really is an ***). That doesn't excuse and again I apologize for the tone of my earlier posts. I really wasn't trying to be argumentative, and I really just wasn't getting it until I reread everything.

Allow me to first explain my thinking in my earlier posts. To me, there is absolutely no point to Galactic Command/Renown, command/renown crates, and Unassembled Components (which are going away with 6.0) except to obtain max level / end-game gear. I understand your point about the distinction between end-game and max level and don't disagree. My characters are mostly at max level, but I don't play much of the "end-game." So when you were talking about those things my brain kept going to 'gear'. I fully understand your point about how GC created this gate that segregated the 1-69 game from the 70 game. I created my first character, still my main to this day, in the bygone golden days of the 1.0 paradigm. I remember farming a world for planetary comms (back when each planet had its own comms) so I could buy gear to keep up with the difficulty progression from one world to the next. In truth, if we still had to do that, if they hadn't changed the leveling and gear progression system to what we have now I may never have got Legendary status. So, as I said, I wasn't trying to argue it's just that those things, GC, crates, UC's, don't mean anything to me except for gear.

On the subject of your OP and subsequent reply, and some things from the stream. I think some of the limitations and gating built into the GC system are definitely problematic, but it is my belief that that be will changed with Galactic Renown and 6.0. I could be wrong on this, and Eric really needs to come in and clarify some things (maybe we'll get it with the blog posts that are coming Soon™), but I think there are some positive changes coming with 6.0.

I'm still of the mind that Galactic Renown will be available from level 1. Again, I could be wrong and we really need clarification, but Eric said that RXP will be earned along with regular XP even at level 75. They specified even at level 75. This, with the fact that Renown levels will periodically be reset, makes me think that we'll be earning RXP before we get to level 75. I'm thinking it will work like Legacy XP, and others have speculated they are implementing a system similar to one found in Diablo 3. Another thing that makes me think RXP won't be limited to level 75 is that with 6.0 everyone will be reset to Renown level 1. Eric desribed the Renown system as a way to measure how long a person has been playing, so if we don't start to earn RXP until level 75 then that means no one can earn RXP on day one. Now, they could gate RXP to level 70+ so current max level characters can start on their Renown level from day one, but that sounds counter to their statement about Renown being a measure of play time.

Two other things that Eric said, first is that when we get gear that we don't want we can break that gear down for either mats for crafting or the new currency (the Charles Points, Chuck Bucks, coins with Boyd's Beautiful Beard stamped on them) whatever that may be. Second, we will no longer get CXP tokens and in place of them we'll get gear drops. Of course, things could go several different ways in these situations. Here's a scenario: you kill a boss in a FP and get a gear drop, do we A) get a random item directly, or B) get a loot box that we have to open in order to get our item? They said that the interface for opening loot crates is being reworked, so it's possible that they'll go route B, and in that case I could see them keeping it all gated behind level 70 or 75. If they go route A with direct drops then I don't see them gating the deconstruction of items behind an arbitrary item level, which means that acquisition of the new currency should be available from level 1. This is reinforced, in my mind, by two things; first they specifically said gear drops will be replacing CXP tokens, and second if they did limit all of that to level 75 it would mean that current max level characters won't be able to begin working on the new drops and currency until they hit level 75 but from the tone of the stream I strongly feel they're moving away from that.

All of this, of course, is just speculation on my part, but it's what I took away from the stream, and could be clarified by a post from Eric.

Brief update, after eight days on antibiotics and steroids I'm finally getting some relief. Not feeling wonderful yet, but at least I don't want to punch a baby seal.

...

 

I'm still of the mind that Galactic Renown will be available from level 1...

 

All of this, of course, is just speculation on my part, but it's what I took away from the stream, and could be clarified by a post from Eric.

 

...

Take a look at the article just posted. It doesn't mention anything about the character level. There will be Renown Crates, and they will be viable from Rank 1 (which is nice). But it doesn't say whether this will happen at level 1 or not. I really hope others can see why having to wait for these until level 75 (again, where a level 75 character can be playing the exact same content as a level one player) will be bad for pre-75 game play. There's really no logic to block this off at level 75, given the way the game is now set to make all content viable...