The 1.4 patch notes indicate that the upcoming Explosive Conflict nerfs were intended to make the operation more doable for pick up groups. I would imagine that this is a precursor to adding it to the group finder.

As it stands right now, most groups that successfully pug EC use general chat on the fleet, as the people building the group can make sure the players they're inviting can actually handle the content. If you're trying to get a group for EC and aren't in a guild, you could try hanging out by the Denova hanger -- I've seen as many as 4 different groups gathering at the same time.

EC even on story mode requires more coordination then the other two ops so trying to PUG it would be messy.

Simply put it would be a frustrating experience for everyone involved

EC even on story mode requires more coordination then the other two ops so trying to PUG it would be messy.

KP is already a massive chore doing it with a pug thanks to the Towers of Hanoi. It's gonna get a bit better with the removal of the proximity mines on Story Mode come 1.4, but, even so, teaching someone that doesn't know the puzzle already can be outrageously frustrating.

The only Ops I don't mind doing with complete pugs (re: haven't been at least minimally vetted before joining) is EV since, honestly, the strats are relatively simple and the puzzle can be solved and taught incredibly easily. Personally, I *love* the fact that the developers have provided a puzzle boss with each ops, but, honestly, it cripples the ability to run with complete randoms. If the game had integrated voice chat within Ops and groups, it wouldn't be that bad, but, any fights that require a substantial degree of coordination and strategy aren't really gonna happen when you're dealing with 7 people that you've never met and some of which are likely to have never seen the content ever before, much less researched it so that they're understand the basics.

The only Ops I don't mind doing with complete pugs (re: haven't been at least minimally vetted before joining) is EV since, honestly, the strats are relatively simple and the puzzle can be solved and taught incredibly easily. Personally, I *love* the fact that the developers have provided a puzzle boss with each ops, but, honestly, it cripples the ability to run with complete randoms. If the game had integrated voice chat within Ops and groups, it wouldn't be that bad, but, any fights that require a substantial degree of coordination and strategy aren't really gonna happen when you're dealing with 7 people that you've never met and some of which are likely to have never seen the content ever before, much less researched it so that they're understand the basics.

Basically this.

EC requires too much coordination for a random PUG. When it was play tested, players basically said that it just didn't work through a group finder. Also, the group finder doesn't rate your gear, so it is setup to cater to players in basic gear for their level. EC really can't be done by anything less than a group in at least 50/50 columi/rakata (unless you're really on top of things), and is especially true for a PUG.

EC even on story mode requires more coordination then the other two ops so trying to PUG it would be messy.

 

Simply put it would be a frustrating experience for everyone involved

Messy lol, it'd be a complete disaster..

A simple solution would be to remove the enrage timers from story mode.

That would work, but it would turn SM Ops into a total joke with no sense of accomplishment at all.

We do have plans to make more Operations available in the group finder in the future, but (as others have mentioned) we do want to avoid sending groups into content that might be too challenging (due to the players being undergeared or less organized). This recent post in response to whether Terror from Beyond would be in the Group Finder has some relevant info:

 

Allison, not sure if this has been suggested elsewhere so I'll go ahead and suggest it. Why not add a system that only allows players to queue for the harder ops if they have completed X number of hard mode flashpoints/ story mode ops? It would mean that the chances of undergeared players joining for something they can't do would be reduced significantly.

Also, why would KP and EV have to be 'rotated out' if other ops were added? This seems silly to me, as doing that is basically hiding the content, as groups will be harder to find for those ops, thus the content will be pretty much obsolete.

All the Tier gear in the game has a rating! so just make specific OPs that require a certain level of gear to have a gear rating lvl, for example Columi has a rating of 136 so if i have overall gear rating of 600+ then I'm allowed to queue for EC HM via the group finder.

Gear checker won't weed out a player that lacks skill. Skill > gear.

It's so easy to farm black hole commendations and get gear, you could have people queuing for HM EC with a super-high gear rating that had never set foot in ANY op and need more experience before running it.

I've seen a black-hole-geared dps fail his assigned Infernal Council member (timer reset and Luthro had 41% health left). I've also seen someone in recruit gear main tank all of HM EV.

The original idea posted on this thread is that higher level ops are "unlocked" by successfully completing lower level ops -- that is a much better solution.

Basically this.

 

EC requires too much coordination for a random PUG. When it was play tested, players basically said that it just didn't work through a group finder. Also, the group finder doesn't rate your gear, so it is setup to cater to players in basic gear for their level. EC really can't be done by anything less than a group in at least 50/50 columi/rakata (unless you're really on top of things), and is especially true for a PUG.

I think this is not true. You can beat anything via GF, you just need proper setup I learned that lesson from doing LI hm via GF. It works like this:

1) get random Party

2) check gear of party members

3) vote to kick all that have insufficient gear

4) repeat 1) through 3) until you have proper party

Solving the coordination problem:

Nearly any serious player has either Vent, Mumble or TS, most have all 3. No big deal to invite all key roles (tanks, heals) and make sure the rest knows the strats via chat.

And an easy way to facilitate things even more would be to add a minimum gear requirement to all hms and ops in GF. So people can easily see if their gear is up to the job or not. It would be a really easy fix.

I agree with all your points, save for this one:

Solving the coordination problem:

 

Nearly any serious player has either Vent, Mumble or TS, most have all 3. No big deal to invite all key roles (tanks, heals) and make sure the rest knows the strats via chat.

That assumption is wrong.

...

 

1) get random Party

2) check gear of party members

3) vote to kick all that have insufficient gear

4) repeat 1) through 3) until you have proper party

 

...

I'm glad you've had success doing HM LI with the group finder this way. My personal experience has been otherwise. Every failed attempt with a pug included a group that all had a minimum of Columi/Rakata/Black Hole. One notable instance included a group that was mostly black hole yet couldn't pass LR-5.

I've since modified my expectations to meet good players through T1 group finder FPs and add them to my friends list and invite them to LI when they're online. This has been a roaring success, thus my opinion about skill being so much more important than gear.

Which is why I still believe that adding a gear check for L2 ops or HM ops won't solve the problem. And that unlocking ops by completing previous ones would have better results overall.

We do have plans to make more Operations available in the group finder in the future, but (as others have mentioned) we do want to avoid sending groups into content that might be too challenging (due to the players being undergeared or less organized). This recent post in response to whether Terror from Beyond would be in the Group Finder has some relevant info:

 

why don't you simply create a overall gear rating (you already have a rating for single pieces) and use it as a minimum requirement for people to queue for Ops ? then people would know when it's advisable to queue for those Ops and what they need to reach it.

People that disagree with me stating gear check, wont save you from unskilled ppl miss one important thing: the whole discussion is about getting the functionality of a pug on par with traditional party gathering like shouting in gc. Unless you do a guild run where you know all the players and their skill you will always have to rely on good gear as a minimum requirement. There is no way to measure the skill level of a random player properly, the only way would be to add an accomplishment history, so you can see whether that individual has actually beaten that specific fp, ops or not. However doing so would encourage ppl to exclusively team up with other experienced players. And that unlocking idea is pointless, since having for instance beat EC on sm, doesnt mean you can beat it in hm too.

I agree with all your points, save for this one:

 

 

 

That assumption is wrong.

Gear checks just do not work.

Adding item level requirement was a total failure in WoW, and it would probably be a big failure in this game.

First of all if you only had a gear check that only checks the rating in your gear (similar to WoW's item level check) you would get a huge increase in stupid stuff like Troopers running around in wearing Strength gear (because it has higher item levels) and other such cases of people wearing gear that is completely useless to their class. I already see these kinds of people sometimes, and really don't want to have even more of them in my groups.

Second thing even if you had also checkups that make sure that the person has gear with the correct primary stat for his class, it would not be enough to filter out such things as:

-Tanks wearing dps gear

-DPS wearing tank gear

-PvP gear in PvE ops

and so on.

Now even if they created some kind of a smart gear check that would filter out all of the above, there is still one major flaw that just makes it impossible to get a good gear automatic check system in place.

THERE ARE MANY MANY EXAMPLES IN THIS GAME WHERE A PIECE OF GEAR WITH A LOWER RATING IS BETTER THAN ONE WITH HIGHER RATING!!!

No matter how advanced gear checkups they made with automatic group making tools, they would never be able to take all of this fully into account. There were some examples of this problem even in WoW, although only a few, but in this game it is a huge problem with literally hundreds of badly itemized pieces where even the unaltered version of the lower tier gear is better.

Not to mention that having your gear properly optimized by swapping some parts in it, makes up for even bigger difference.

. And that unlocking idea is pointless, since having for instance beat EC on sm, doesnt mean you can beat it in hm to.

 

Fair enough. Then ask everyone in a key role to download and install either client, no big deal either. Its done in 5 mins.

Maybe people don't want to download new programs to clutter up their desktops? Especially since a lot of people use different programs for communication. If you can't make yourself clear enough in Groupchat then perhaps you shouldn't raid.

And the unlocking idea is the only viable option tbh. As stated, gear checks only check gear not skill. Having to beat other ops and FP's first at least proves the player has taken part in and completed a raid, thus showing a degree of skill. It's a better bet than gear checks anyways.

We have Tier 1 and Tier 2 Hard Mode Flashpoints, why can't we have Tier 1 and Tier 2 Story Mode Operations?

I don't queue for Lost Island with a brand new lvl 50, and if I did I could hardly complain if the group wanted to kick me for being under geared. Likewise if you did a group finder for a Tier 2 Op (Explosive Conflict or Terror From Beyond) and were under geared, you could expect to get kicked.

Bioware could put some explanatory text in Group Finder explaining the difference between the 2 levels of Operations similar to what they have for the 2 levels of Flashpoints, and include the recommended minimum gearing in the description. That way people can queue at their own risk.