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How do you survive in ranked arena?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
How do you survive in ranked arena?

Fellow-Canadian's Avatar


Fellow-Canadian
05.01.2019 , 12:12 AM | #11
I've tried playing pyro but found its damage to be too unreliable in PVP. Terrible dot spread mechanic and subpar burst. I find AP has the best burst in the game and also has very effective AOE. The way I see things for this class right now is it can't win fights of attrition, so I play towards ending engagements as quickly as possible. AP can global someone and pyro can't. That way the survival issue doesn't always become a problem.

When I PVP on this class I bring with me 4 stuns that I can use. The 2 that come baked into the class, a grenade, and I use the stun from grapple utility. That helps for moments when you don't have a defensive cooldown and you need to stop damage.

I take utilities that increase mobility, control, and survival. Here is my usual setup. I find the only talent that is changeable is dropping pyro shield damage for something else. Anything else I find I can't live without. The extra 10m on grapple is unreal.

Kiting with hydraulic override can't be overstated in how effective it is. Server interpolation causes other people to see you as warping all over their screen, so people have an incredibly difficult time trying to attack you. You can exploit this fact by fighting melee at range while kiting them in circles. It's also effective against ranged classes with good positioning. You can use LOS to expose yourself only briefly to fire an ability and duck back behind LOS. Ranged classes have to constantly reposition or they just die from standing still.

At competitive levels of PVP, you know the PT is a prime target, so you have to use this knowledge against your opponents. Your team must start any engagement by positioning themselves between you and the other team. It forces the other team to engage in a way they don't want to. If they ignore your team though and go straight after you, they will eat damage for free and open themselves up to bad positioning. Long range grapple is amazing at initiating a fight, as you can pull them into a checkmate style move almost immediately. Here is a video I made of such an example.

In the end, the bag of tricks you can use will run out and nature will take its course a lot earlier for you than other classes. This is just part of what you accept when you play this class right now. The class is definitely in need of balance and If I were serious about playing ranked at the highest level, I would not be running this class. It's too much of a liability. I do still enjoy the class, but I accept I am playing a class that is sub-optimal for PVP.
The Canadian Legacy
Check out my PVP videos on my YouTube channel.

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
05.02.2019 , 03:17 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Fellow-Canadian View Post
I've tried playing pyro but found its damage to be too unreliable in PVP. Terrible dot spread mechanic and subpar burst. I find AP has the best burst in the game and also has very effective AOE. The way I see things for this class right now is it can't win fights of attrition, so I play towards ending engagements as quickly as possible. AP can global someone and pyro can't. That way the survival issue doesn't always become a problem.
The main problem with Pyro spec is that you're forced to play in clumped up places to make the dotspreading/aoe effective. The damage that the spec can do can actually be higher when properly landed but its gimmicky in the way it works but I stick to it because its fun to use It would be nice if both dots would spread but sadly only one does. The way I 'negate' the downsides of this is to play around 'LoS' to force Ranged classes to 'be together' as they stalk me and/or play tight places/gaps (Favorite spots list: Orbital Station/Rishi Cove/Mandalorian Battle Ring ramps/corners + Makeb Mesa on the metal ramps or around the hut on one of the sides, Corellia Square behind the crates on the tight spaces + Tatooine Canyon huts or those pipe things next to each respective spawn area) to make the job easier. Standing out in the open is basically letting yourself eat free damage from ranged. Plus, everyone knows that if you play PT, you're there to dish out as much damage and die by doing that.
Still, I agree, Pyro is far less appealing than AP when you look at the cards you got.

Quote: Originally Posted by Fellow-Canadian View Post
I take utilities that increase mobility, control, and survival. Here is my usual setup. I find the only talent that is changeable is dropping pyro shield damage for something else. Anything else I find I can't live without. The extra 10m on grapple is unreal.

Kiting with hydraulic override can't be overstated in how effective it is. Server interpolation causes other people to see you as warping all over their screen, so people have an incredibly difficult time trying to attack you. You can exploit this fact by fighting melee at range while kiting them in circles. It's also effective against ranged classes with good positioning. You can use LOS to expose yourself only briefly to fire an ability and duck back behind LOS. Ranged classes have to constantly reposition or they just die from standing still.
Kiting is questionable. Sure you can work up to 'live longer' that way but its a bit of a gamble because you just need to get slowed down/rooted/stunned to have plans ruined xD
I just tend to build up every DR available in the utils tree and equip anything that can hit back while I'm alive and being damaged. Stuff like gambling on LoS to get out of combat is just asking to your opponents to not be smart

Also, doesn't the Carbo + grenade give full resolve?

Fellow-Canadian's Avatar


Fellow-Canadian
05.05.2019 , 04:37 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
The main problem with Pyro spec is that you're forced to play in clumped up places to make the dotspreading/aoe effective. The damage that the spec can do can actually be higher when properly landed but its gimmicky in the way it works but I stick to it because its fun to use It would be nice if both dots would spread but sadly only one does. The way I 'negate' the downsides of this is to play around 'LoS' to force Ranged classes to 'be together' as they stalk me and/or play tight places/gaps (Favorite spots list: Orbital Station/Rishi Cove/Mandalorian Battle Ring ramps/corners + Makeb Mesa on the metal ramps or around the hut on one of the sides, Corellia Square behind the crates on the tight spaces + Tatooine Canyon huts or those pipe things next to each respective spawn area) to make the job easier. Standing out in the open is basically letting yourself eat free damage from ranged. Plus, everyone knows that if you play PT, you're there to dish out as much damage and die by doing that.
Still, I agree, Pyro is far less appealing than AP when you look at the cards you got.
I have experienced the peaks of pyro and I've hit some crazy numbers. Visually it's great with everybody burning alive and running all over the place. It's fun to see it, but the stars have to align perfectly to hit that full potential. There is a high risk but the reward is sort of meh. You're not really killing anyone that fast so the payoff isn't that great. The bulk of the damage comes from keeping dots up and consistent cleave damage. It exerts strong pressure but not strong enough to surprise a lot of healers.

The biggest problem is the AOE dot-spread is too hard to land properly. You need people to group up tightly while you maintain the correct distance and position. You have to do this in order to maximize the cone effect. If you're too far away you won't hit things in the back and if you're too close you may not hit them at all. To compensate for how perfect things have to be, I found myself setting up dots and then proceeded my dot-spread with either an AOE stun or if I had the talent, the 75% snare utility. I needed people to stop moving for a second or it seemed either lag or bad luck meant I would occasionally misfire. The cooldown on the dot spread feels too long for how clunky it is to use.

I also found using cooldowns to cover for dot-spread felt like such a waste because I really needed them for other things. AP doesn't have to make that choice because the damage lands 100% of the time. This is true for both single target and AOE.

Chasing down healers as pyro and killing them felt really hard to do. I wasn't seeing as many kills when I was played pyro, despite the higher theoretical DPS. I saw much more success killing people with AP because I think its damage is way easier to apply. It comes on strong and it's consistent. The burst can be too much to handle at times and people will die within a cc chain no problem.

Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
Kiting is questionable. Sure you can work up to 'live longer' that way but its a bit of a gamble because you just need to get slowed down/rooted/stunned to have plans ruined xD
I just tend to build up every DR available in the utils tree and equip anything that can hit back while I'm alive and being damaged. Stuff like gambling on LoS to get out of combat is just asking to your opponents to not be smart

Also, doesn't the Carbo + grenade give full resolve?
There is flexibility for change in the utility tree. If your team is more geared for endurance then you may go with different choices.

I kite like you wouldn't believe when I PVP, but a lot of that is to maximize the use of good positioning. I need to make myself as difficult to engage as possible. Using LOS to prevent range or melee from hitting me is ideal. I survive by completely avoiding as much damage as possible. For me, playing a vanguard has become the art of Player-Versus-Pillar and kiting. A lot of people will give up and switch targets if you are good enough at it. If they don't swap they often see their output falls off a cliff. I try to fight at max range to counter melee when outside of my hydraulic override window. When they get too close is when I start using my cc or defensive cooldowns.

The sad reality of the class is everyone can outlive you, so there is always a timer on how long it's going to take before the tricks run out.

I never count on being able to run away to reset a fight. Sometimes I'm chased down or an eternity passes and I may as well be dead. My plan is usually to keep pushing buttons until everyone around me is dead and drop combat that way.

Off the top of my head, I can't say how much resolve is added with a grenade, I would have to test or watch a video to see. My use of any stun is usually based on the given needs of any situation, so I never really noticed. I pay attention to their resolve bar and if I need to chain cc I will.
The Canadian Legacy
Check out my PVP videos on my YouTube channel.