So I noticed today that the Tactics talent Shock Absorbers, which reduces the damage taken by 30% whilst stunned, does not appear to increase Damage Reduction in the character sheet, nor displays a buff icon when active (which I would expect as feedback to the user if the character sheet does not reflect it). This of course made me a bit concerned that it may not be applying its effects correctly.

 

Has anyone tested this to see if damage actually is being reduced? I'm going to try to find someone to get some consistent tests with tomorrow but wondering if anyone had already checked this.

 

Cheers

J

So I noticed today that the Tactics talent Shock Absorbers, which reduces the damage taken by 30% whilst stunned, does not appear to increase Damage Reduction in the character sheet, nor displays a buff icon when active (which I would expect as feedback to the user if the character sheet does not reflect it).

 

Not all damage reduction in the game is added to the player's damage reduction. Warding Call, the Guardian tank damage reduction CD they get in their tree, doesn't add 40% to their already impressive DR; it simply reduces whatever damage they would take by 40% (so if, after all other sources of mitigation, they're getting hit for 100 damage, it instead gets reduced to 60). The same applies to this talent (and the various other AoE damage reduction talents that many other DPS classes get).

 

If you want to test whether it's being applied, get into a duel with someone you know. Let them hit you with an attack that has a small damage range then let them stun you and try the attack on you again. You should see a ~30% reduction in the damage you take between the first and the second.

True, I had forgotten Warding Call though it does have a buff icon which at least reassured me of its successful application. The absence of both for Shock Absorbers was what concerned me as states affecting the player should be conveyed through some form of feedback as per basic usability principles.

 

I haven't had a chance to log in today so have yet to test with a guildmate, but it's reassuring at least that you (and presumably others) have seen positive results from it: thanks for the quick response.

Edited December 26, 2012 by JarenWelen

who cares your using the wrong tree in the first place

who cares your using the wrong tree in the first place

 

Wow. What an interesting and constructive post.

who cares your using the wrong tree in the first place

 

Thank you for that constructive post. Since you took the time to write it I will show the courtesy to briefly respond in kind:

 

I have played three Vanguards and have tried full Shield Specialist, Assault Specialist (presumably the "right" tree you indirectly reference), Tactics and Tactics with Ion Cell. I completely agree that AS is a fine and fun tree to play, even with the range changes. However we have three trees and are intended to use any of these three trees; granted some (in our class or others) may be considered sub-optimal for certain purposes, but any can be played if they match the intention of the player and meet the personal playstyle of said player.

 

For me personally, the two Tactics variants I've played are perhaps the most enjoyable in the game. I can hold my own effectively and have outperformed many (I will restrain from the use of the word "incompetent" since they may not have found a class/build that suits them and there are many factors affecting an individual's playing ability) players of the Assault Specialist trees (and equally been defeated by the better ones). It's a tree I enjoy, it's a tree I'm good at, and it's a tree that I can usually win with. That doesn't sound like the wrong tree to me.

 

My sincerest apologies to all others for derailing the thread (a lot ) but I just wanted to address that, hopefully not too curtly.

Edited December 27, 2012 by JarenWelen

Hello

 

I started with the if build and then changed to tactics because I didn't wanted to be like all the vanguards. But in the end my low dps an low kill numbers made me change to assault. The problem is that I use tactic gear for this (I started out with this and don't want to do the whole grid over again). I saw a great improvement and I like it really well. But now that I'm getting elite wh tactic gear I was thinking to give tactics another go (luckily there is the respec in fight for that). My question is what is your damage at the end of wz's? +300k? What build do you use and rotation. I know there are many posts around this but I liked your answer.

 

Kind regards

Hello

 

I started with the if build and then changed to tactics because I didn't wanted to be like all the vanguards. But in the end my low dps an low kill numbers made me change to assault. The problem is that I use tactic gear for this (I started out with this and don't want to do the whole grid over again). I saw a great improvement and I like it really well. But now that I'm getting elite wh tactic gear I was thinking to give tactics another go (luckily there is the respec in fight for that). My question is what is your damage at the end of wz's? +300k? What build do you use and rotation. I know there are many posts around this but I liked your answer.

 

Kind regards

 

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd163/ThEonE08-/Screenshot_2013-01-01_21_17_20_130342_zpsdd0473e4.jpg

 

Full tactics. In this screen cap i had yet to get either of my implants and i was still using my shield, as i had just changed to tactics 3 games prior to this one. Also, i was running the ball half the time (HtL ftw). Two games after this one i had 488k damage in a Void Star that was not stalled on the first door and ended early when we made it to the second door. Everyone who says tactics doesn't have its place is wrong or simply hasn't played it (if i get another, "oh my friend's best friend's nephew said it sucks"...) To me, its probably the funnest spec in the game, since there really isn't anything like it. To top it off, not many people play it, and im fine with that.

 

I played IF, then assault. This spec trumps them both IMHO. The spec has a ton of utility and the in-combat movement is really helpful. Most people that try the spec say it sucks after the first WZ and just swap right out. If you give it a chance, it really grows on you quickly.

Thanks for the reply

 

Any good rotation or specific build?

 

I will probably try tactics again this evening.

 

Greetz

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd163/ThEonE08-/Screenshot_2013-01-01_21_17_20_130342_zpsdd0473e4.jpg

 

Full tactics. In this screen cap i had yet to get either of my implants and i was still using my shield, as i had just changed to tactics 3 games prior to this one. Also, i was running the ball half the time (HtL ftw). Two games after this one i had 488k damage in a Void Star that was not stalled on the first door and ended early when we made it to the second door. Everyone who says tactics doesn't have its place is wrong or simply hasn't played it (if i get another, "oh my friend's best friend's nephew said it sucks"...) To me, its probably the funnest spec in the game, since there really isn't anything like it. To top it off, not many people play it, and im fine with that.

 

I played IF, then assault. This spec trumps them both IMHO. The spec has a ton of utility and the in-combat movement is really helpful. Most people that try the spec say it sucks after the first WZ and just swap right out. If you give it a chance, it really grows on you quickly.

 

How do you consider it viable if someone playing assault can turn and kill you before you get him to 50% HP? If your doing 488k i'm willing to bet a pyro/assualt in the same situation would have done 600-700k. PT/VG are there to burst and burst hard, other classes such as sins, sorcs, juggies/maras are there for the utility, you as a VG are there to kill any and everything in your way. Each calss has it's own role in PvP and plain and simple VG is dmg, if your not getting the most out of it by running assault then honestly your gimping your team. This isn't just an opinion either im not a friend of a cousin telling you Assault is better look at the numbers, it is a fact.

... Each calss has it's own role in PvP and plain and simple VG is dmg ....

 

Subjective. Assault Vanguards can't guard. Tactics Vanguards in ion cell can. Guarding, taunting, and peeling for a good healer is very effective and is certainly not gimping your team. I consider that ability worth giving up some burst.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's just that I don't see that it is as plain and simple as you suggest.

Edited January 7, 2013 by NurseDonut

How do you consider it viable if someone playing assault can turn and kill you before you get him to 50% HP? If your doing 488k i'm willing to bet a pyro/assualt in the same situation would have done 600-700k. PT/VG are there to burst and burst hard, other classes such as sins, sorcs, juggies/maras are there for the utility, you as a VG are there to kill any and everything in your way. Each calss has it's own role in PvP and plain and simple VG is dmg, if your not getting the most out of it by running assault then honestly your gimping your team. This isn't just an opinion either im not a friend of a cousin telling you Assault is better look at the numbers, it is a fact.

 

That's nice, it's still an opinion (and a bad one at that), regardless of your warped perspective and spelling errors. Go troll elsewhere please.

 

On topic, it seems to work for me, I had an operative friend test on me and his damage appears to be a good deal less, even if the dr doesn't show up on the character screen.

Subjective. Assault Vanguards can't guard. Tactics Vanguards in ion cell can. Guarding, taunting, and peeling for a good healer is very effective and is certainly not gimping your team. I consider that ability worth giving up some burst.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's just that I don't see that it is as plain and simple as you suggest.

 

Lol running tactics in ion cell is not viable, if you want to guard someone roll a Shadow where a hybrid works right.

Lol running tactics in ion cell is not viable, if you want to guard someone roll a Shadow where a hybrid works right.

 

Do you have anything relevant to add aside from the generic "not viable?" Didn't think so.

 

Anyways. It's not important. I won't waste any more time or energy on you.

Edited January 9, 2013 by NurseDonut

How do you consider it viable if someone playing assault can turn and kill you before you get him to 50% HP? If your doing 488k i'm willing to bet a pyro/assualt in the same situation would have done 600-700k. PT/VG are there to burst and burst hard, other classes such as sins, sorcs, juggies/maras are there for the utility, you as a VG are there to kill any and everything in your way. Each calss has it's own role in PvP and plain and simple VG is dmg, if your not getting the most out of it by running assault then honestly your gimping your team. This isn't just an opinion either im not a friend of a cousin telling you Assault is better look at the numbers, it is a fact.

 

Sure, they do more damage, but you are so linear on the thought line "lol higher damage = better". No assault VG can carry the ball like me, no Assault VG can take more damage than me, no assault VG has more CC than me, no assault VG can AoE like me. Clean and cut, it ain't happening. Saying VG doesn't have the CC and utility to match other classes has to be the most uneducated statement I've seen a while in what started out as a constructive thread. Just b/c someone doesn't play a FotM spec doesn't mean its not good. Assualt is better in single target spike damage. That's it. That's what it was made for, and it serves its purpose well.

 

I'm assuming you have tried tactics? What spec did you run? What was your gear loadout/setup and how did you play the class? Saying tactics in Ion cell is pointless, and again proves to me that you have never tried the spec or have spent very little time in it. You make me even question if you actually play VG and are just commenting for a third person's point of view.

At the risk of de-railing the thread further, I'm currently levelling a Vanguard (lvl 20) intending to head up the Assault tree (I've played an Assault Commando so I have a reasonable grasp of how it works in PvP), but now I've thought about Tactics (in Ion Cell) & one of my questions is does the Static Field debuff allow you to use HiB? Or does HiB in Tactics generally rely on Gut's bleed to use HiB? Assuming it does, I've knocked up a quick build here, though I'm not sure where to put the last 2 points, possibly spread over Heavy Stock, Rebraced Armour, Ion Overload (Moar DOTS!), Neural Overload, or possibly Power Armour (if/when you run into diminishing returns at high gear levels on damage mitigation from armour).

one of my questions is does the Static Field debuff allow you to use HiB? Or does HiB in Tactics generally rely on Gut's bleed to use HiB?

 

Static Field doesn't allow you to use HiB. HiB explicitly requires either a DoT on the target (Ion Cell in tank spec and Plasma Cell accomplish this by actually providing a chance for a DoT applied on all attacks and a guaranteed application on some). Tactics, since it doesn't proc a DoT, relies on Gut.

I've played as a Tactics tank and previously as a Shield tank.

Shock absorbers definitely works. I haven't done any proper testing of it but both me and people healing me have noticed its effects.

I spec up to shock absorbers in Tactics and smoke grenade in Shield and notice a significant increase in both my damage output and my survivability with no decrease in my utility for guarding healers or objectives or ball running when compared to my previous Shield tree build.

I play a plasma cell variant of tactics and love it! The burn from plasma cell is highly effective added with great AoE damage, hold the line, shock absorbers, etc. This is a great tree to consider, especially when you know how to play it effectively. With my spec, ammo management isn't easy, but you can make it work, especially in a war zone setting. I consistently deal top damage or close 2nd in war zones, most kills, and still give a good amount of protection.

 

It takes awhile to truly master tactics, but more fun in my opinion. I've done all 3 trees and played exclusively assault for a long time. The big bursts and pretty numbers were fun, but I can do that and provide more support and functionality with my tactics build.