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Why is there no option to amicably part ways with Lana?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why is there no option to amicably part ways with Lana?

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
12.20.2018 , 05:46 PM | #111
I realize I’m breaking form with what I posted, but I decided to respond. Saying that “she’s the person who rescues you because that’s how she was written” is a nonsense response. It’s like saying water is wet because wet things are watery. The real question is, has Lana Beniko, as a character, been adequately developed so that her actions over the five years you were missing make sense within the canon.
When Sigourney Weaver’s Ripley in Aliens goes in to rescue the little girl from the Queen all while the countdown to the nuclear detonation is taking place, you cheer for Ripley or are invested in the outcome because you can believe it’s something Ripley would do. When Luke decides to turn himself in to Vader on Endor in an attempt to save him from the Dark Side you believe it because it makes sense within his character arc. Lana Beniko is a pragmatist, and not quite as sithy or backstabbing as members of the Dark Council, but she has seen what you are capable of, in uncovering the Revanite plot, defeating Revan under a united coalition, and then standing up to the possessed on Ziost. She realized if anyone could unite the galaxy again, it would be you.
There may be other individual class companions that might have that degree of faith in you, but the devs had to choose someone that, from a story perspective, knew “every” player regardless of class. I guess it could have been Satele, or Marr, but they had other parts to play in the story. It could have been Theron, but it wasn’t, and based on how he has been developed as a character, he’s not the one to make that hero’s rescue play... he’s the one to go undercover and maybe feed info to the one who does the rescue. He’s the sidekick for the hero, the supporting cast.
So, maybe the real question is, can you demonstrate another character who a majority of players would encounter in their travels and who has been set up such that the choices made fit with the character’s personality?
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Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
12.20.2018 , 05:56 PM | #112
From the very beginning of KotFE Lana was favored, even in scenarios where it made no sense. Lana is the one to rescue us no matter what. If you're a Republic diehard, say you don't trust Lana or the Empire multiple times, sabotage the Empire multiple times throughout SoR, say you'll kill Lana if you ever meet again, are horrible and rude to her every chance you get and flat out tell her that you're only working with her because of Theron, etc...she's still the one to rescue you. That makes no sense. If this were reality where people reacted in believable ways and weren't constrained by "because the plot says so" writers, many of our characters would not have gone with Lana. Many would have taken their chances fighting alone, or fought alongside her until there was an opportunity to slip away into the back alleys of Zakuul or the swamp or any number of reactions that we were not allowed to have "because the plot says so." Then you get to the actual rescue plan: it was a disaster. Lana bludgeoned her way in and you had to bludgeon your way out past tons of guards and skytroopers and even caught the attention of Vaylin who also started hunting you. You know who would have been much better at such a mission? Theron. He's already a spy and has already done the undiscovered infiltration thing many times before. If the plan had been well thought out they would have had Theron and T7 covertly infiltrate the carbonite prison, disable or show looped footage on the cameras, and snuck the outlander out with a disguise with no one being the wiser. Even Koth would have been a better choice than Lana since as a local he'd be better able to impersonate a knight and infiltrate the facility. Senya also would have been an excellent choice since she WAS a knight and Lana had already been allied with her at that point.

The rescue plan we got was just another point of Lana being incompetent in my eyes. In no way has she earned the role of "spymaster" as she does not have the skills of a spy or the ability to see a spy working directly for her (Kovatch, IA double agent). Hers is a case of us being TOLD she's this wonderful and amazing intelligence asset but her never actually doing anything to prove it. At most she brings us to another character like Hylo who is the one that actually brought us information. She reminds me of Gwen DeMarco from Galaxy Quest who only repeats the computer. Hm, I wonder if she was an inspiration for Lana...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4EyF2H_Tjg

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
12.20.2018 , 05:58 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I realize I’m breaking form with what I posted, but I decided to respond. Saying that “she’s the person who rescues you because that’s how she was written” is a nonsense response. It’s like saying water is wet because wet things are watery. The real question is, has Lana Beniko, as a character, been adequately developed so that her actions over the five years you were missing make sense within the canon.
When Sigourney Weaver’s Ripley in Aliens goes in to rescue the little girl from the Queen all while the countdown to the nuclear detonation is taking place, you cheer for Ripley or are invested in the outcome because you can believe it’s something Ripley would do. When Luke decides to turn himself in to Vader on Endor in an attempt to save him from the Dark Side you believe it because it makes sense within his character arc. Lana Beniko is a pragmatist, and not quite as sithy or backstabbing as members of the Dark Council, but she has seen what you are capable of, in uncovering the Revanite plot, defeating Revan under a united coalition, and then standing up to the possessed on Ziost. She realized if anyone could unite the galaxy again, it would be you.
There may be other individual class companions that might have that degree of faith in you, but the devs had to choose someone that, from a story perspective, knew “every” player regardless of class. I guess it could have been Satele, or Marr, but they had other parts to play in the story. It could have been Theron, but it wasn’t, and based on how he has been developed as a character, he’s not the one to make that hero’s rescue play... he’s the one to go undercover and maybe feed info to the one who does the rescue. He’s the sidekick for the hero, the supporting cast.
So, maybe the real question is, can you demonstrate another character who a majority of players would encounter in their travels and who has been set up such that the choices made fit with the character’s personality?
Also one can consider that taking all the "I hate you talk" options still leaves lots of nice/civil chats between them and could easily be played off as the PC is just a [insert whatever cliche nasty word you prefer].
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

JakRoanin's Avatar


JakRoanin
12.20.2018 , 08:32 PM | #114
Why oh why are Lana fans so determined to say people who don't like Lana, (or do like Arcann) are terrible people in real life, and play Terrible PC's? I play very different personalities in my PC's but none of them are hateful lunatics or constantly rude. Why? Because I want to have FUN and those types of people irritate me, so I don't want to play them. Every once-in-awhile, my male agent gets curt with Lana but he's not as nasty to her as he is to Kaliyo. And he only wants his Watcher back. My BH is still steaming over Lana's racism towards Mandalorians, but she's got Theron to sooth her and accept her. My other characters are VERY diplomatic people (byproducts of being royalty) so they're perfectly polite and proper to her.


It's called role-playing! My PC's might not be her BFF's, or even like her. That's no reason to be needlessly nasty to her.

Suzsi's Avatar


Suzsi
12.20.2018 , 08:48 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by JakRoanin View Post
Why oh why are Lana fans so determined to say people who don't like Lana, (or do like Arcann) are terrible people in real life, and play Terrible PC's? I play very different personalities in my PC's but none of them are hateful lunatics or constantly rude. Why? Because I want to have FUN and those types of people irritate me, so I don't want to play them. Every once-in-awhile, my male agent gets curt with Lana but he's not as nasty to her as he is to Kaliyo. And he only wants his Watcher back. My BH is still steaming over Lana's racism towards Mandalorians, but she's got Theron to sooth her and accept her. My other characters are VERY diplomatic people (byproducts of being royalty) so they're perfectly polite and proper to her.


It's called role-playing! My PC's might not be her BFF's, or even like her. That's no reason to be needlessly nasty to her.
None of my chars have ever been overly mean to Lana. Put her in her place on a couple of matters once in a while but thats it and justifiably so at the time. I'm just tired of her taking the place of my still alive LIs like Theron. My characters don't care but I care that she is *always* in my face at times when it should have been someone else there instead.
Eg. When my char wakes in her room from a nightmare, her LI should be there not Lana.
When Jonas is the SiS contact Theron, his buddy should be there not Lana.
She always has to make some comment about getting back to work etc whenever Theron and the PC have a moment, as if my character couldn't have done that herself (lets do this later and work now etc).
Shes just always in our faces and it's just going to get worse unless bioware wakes up and records the same line on multiple characters, so our choices to leave them alive mattered instead of boxing them up like some kind of ornament.

I don't need Lana gone. I just need less of her in *my* stories where my characters chose to let others live so they would still have a role in their lives.

MishaCantu's Avatar


MishaCantu
12.21.2018 , 02:40 AM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by JennyFlynn View Post
Snip

That said, I honestly think companions are on their way out. They were meant to be on their way out with KOTFE/ET, most of them, but players rallied so a few were added with chapters while others trickled in via alerts. They're still trickling in 3+ years later and we'll likely be near 4 years by the time the last ones have returned for their 2-minute kiss & tell. Meanwhile, new ones are being added and who knows what their lifespan will be after their little story spotlight? Makes me wonder why they're bothering at all when they clearly cannot follow through on the presence of these companions beyond their "Hey, I'm Whatshisname, we're team buddies now!" or "Good to see you again lover" moment.

Just stick a memory-gem on my ship that I can interact with to relive past companion/romance conversations and have a droid give me my quest objectives, there's your money saver and the end to companion bickering.
Been saying this for months. Companions are on their way out. It's no longer economically feasible to create cutscenes for every LI companion. As for Lana, yep, I'm sick of her too, but she's the economy model that Bioware can afford to put into every cutscene. For JUS, I'd have even preferred Kai Zyken as someone different for a change.

All this bickering doesn't mean much when at the end of the day, I doubt we'll see much diversity with companion interactions. The kill options was just the harbinger of the end times for our beloved companions. I understand the financial reasoning, but it will surely lessen the game I've come to love.

Cawyden's Avatar


Cawyden
12.21.2018 , 03:47 AM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by MishaCantu View Post
Been saying this for months. Companions are on their way out. It's no longer economically feasible to create cutscenes for every LI companion. As for Lana, yep, I'm sick of her too, but she's the economy model that Bioware can afford to put into every cutscene. For JUS, I'd have even preferred Kai Zyken as someone different for a change.

All this bickering doesn't mean much when at the end of the day, I doubt we'll see much diversity with companion interactions. The kill options was just the harbinger of the end times for our beloved companions. I understand the financial reasoning, but it will surely lessen the game I've come to love.
Yes there aren't really enough resources there to give us meaningful content (especially romance content) with all our companions/LIs. I understand if they are moving forward and focus on new characters/companions and reduce screentime for those LIs for which we already had much content and even marriage options (such as vanilla LIs, Theron and Lana).

But then they should do it equally and reduce the romance content for Lana as well and to give more screen time for the new characters and not just giving Lana everything and the rest nothing at all. They have options they don't need Lana as only quest giver.

Doesn't mean that we should not hear anything from our old LIs - at least romance letters and maybe a flirt line form time to time would be nice. But to have for everyone long romance scenes is to much to hope for I am afraid.

Kataret's Avatar


Kataret
12.31.2018 , 12:33 PM | #118
I'm kind of surprised there isn't more content with potentially dead companions. Yes, it's more money/resources/voice-acting/whatever, but small details like these dramatically increase the replayability of the story.

Additionally, the writers already set a precedent in Fallen Empire and Eternal Throne, mostly with Koth Vortena. For characters that kept Koth around, he continued to show up in the story with dialogue and information and at least a somewhat major role. If Koth had been chased away, his role and dialogue were simply taken up by other recognizable NPCs, typically Tora or Hylo Visz.

I'm surprised BioWare hasn't carried this precedent forward into any content beyond KOTET. The substitutions aren't terribly hard to figure out. For example:
  • Anything related to the military could have dialogue from Aric Jorgan. If Jorgan is dead or exiled, his military dialogues could be filled in by Admiral Aygo.
  • Anything related to the underworld or criminal activity could have dialogue from Kaliyo. If Kaliyo is dead or exiled, her underworld dialogues could be filled in by Hylo Visz.
  • Anything related to Zakuul or the Alliance fleet could have dialogue from Koth. If Koth is dead or exiled, his Zakuul and fleet dialogues could be filled in by Tora.
  • Etc. Etc. Etc.

Again, I'm aware this costs more money, but it does add that lovely replayability factor. I'd love to see more of our so-called "bricked" companions, and I do have faith that we will see something of them when 6.0 arrives. And if they do return to this precedent, I'd be perfectly content with seeing Lana having a dismiss option (or even a kill option), with her retaining a presence in the story of those who kept her, while her lines are taken by another NPC for those who dismissed her.

JakRoanin's Avatar


JakRoanin
01.01.2019 , 08:19 AM | #119
I have faith due to what they did with Khem Val, if an inquisitor chose Zash in class story the Val dies on Nathema, if not, they get Khem back in Jedi Under Siege. So, I'm truly hoping we get real Comp interaction once more.

ruffolofi's Avatar


ruffolofi
01.01.2019 , 04:32 PM | #120
I love Lana, but I do think it's unfair how she's treated compared to other (KOTFE/KOTET) main companions and LI's. She's the only one who doesn't betray you and can't die. It gets boring to always have to take her with you everywhere and always hearing her voice. I want to see more Arcann, Koth and Theron.

Now as we move on, I think it would be the best time to kill Lana. While fighting Zakuul the only person we lost (who we did not kill ourselves) was a robot and one twilek slave or mando. Lana's death should be meaningful: a noble sacrifice to save the Outlander.... or maybe she could be brutally murdered by someone wanting to hurt the Alliance or the Commander himself. Then we get to decide how our character reacts to Lana's death: grief, anger or apathy. Something like that anyway.