Hello could not count the times i happen to be in a "unofficial"( players who were once in a same pvp guild but decided to create their own dead guilds, but still want to group up together like when they were all in the same pvp guild) 4 man premade team which end up losing the fame for us thanks to them ignoring calls and just farming for the rest of the game. The end stats show how "superior" these players are with their high dps stats almost 2/3xs as much as the winning team yet OUR team is the one that lost.. I think a possible solution would be to leave/quit the game out of principle as some as we come across these players that way they wont be able to get much games if people just keep leaving on them.

Hello could not count the times i happen to be in a "unofficial"( players who were once in a same pvp guild but decided to create their own dead guilds, but still want to group up together like when they were all in the same pvp guild) 4 man premade team which end up losing the fame for us thanks to them ignoring calls and just farming for the rest of the game. The end stats show how "superior" these players are with their high dps stats almost 2/3xs as much as the winning team yet OUR team is the one that lost.. I think a possible solution would be to leave/quit the game out of principle as some as we come across these players that way they wont be able to get much games if people just keep leaving on them.

 

Wow.. so glad another player speaks about this. I admit I am guilty of farming myself, but I do it in Hutball only because I absolutely detest that game mode, however, I am shocked about these silver, golden flair players making premades and losing to a noob random team like I got with triple caps, 600-100 in Odessen and so on. To be honest I don't see the point..

 

Even when voidstar starts and we are attacking they are instant running over our team not giving a damn about anything and allowing us to get to the end room in 3 minutes....

 

I get you are.. you are a professional ego maniac with a nice golden flair, but being good at this game is much more than ganking. In my opinion of course.

 

Really loved your " they create their own dead guilds" sentence. Really spot on...

Edited October 13, 2018 by DavidAtkinson

The worst are healers in Huttball that just sit in the acid and heal themselves for high HPS while ignoring their team. I have no respect for those players.

 

If you really are a bad *** healer get the huttball and try to do that.

 

Good players can put up great DPS or HPS and still win games.

So what is the rest of you doing ? Other 4 players ? If this amazing premade is farming everyone with 2 or 3 times dps that means the other 4 players have lots of space to do the thing and win game...

 

I wonder on the other hand why must I lose games due to objective hero’s who go far node all game to never cap it and get farmed over and over and then 3 of them runs there and all die to 2 guys. Or other heroes who think that winning is never achieved by capping own node or calling incs, neither of which heroes find important. Or 1k dps 10 deaths spam cappers who after that have a nerv to cal everyone idiots while being useless for 15 mins ?

Hello could not count the times i happen to be in a "unofficial"( players who were once in a same pvp guild but decided to create their own dead guilds, but still want to group up together like when they were all in the same pvp guild) 4 man premade team which end up losing the fame for us thanks to them ignoring calls and just farming for the rest of the game. The end stats show how "superior" these players are with their high dps stats almost 2/3xs as much as the winning team yet OUR team is the one that lost.. I think a possible solution would be to leave/quit the game out of principle as some as we come across these players that way they wont be able to get much games if people just keep leaving on them.

 

4 man premades against pugs are a cancer no doubt. I personally feel, as much as some players might hate it, premades should be limited to two players. It would suck for people who are in PVP guids and friends. I get they want to do content together [ Like Kendra] so it's a bit of a grey area and opinion. I really don't know what the right answer is as 4 member premades are more interested in working with their members [premade] and are roving packs often. It can be a game changer and sucks for the pug team. As you say it, sometimes that does happen.

 

Some people are more into the fighting sides of things, I count myself amoung them. I don't do WZs because I want to always win I do them because I like to fight. "War"zone are inherently places where fighting is going on so you can see how some may see it that way, I certainly do [imo].

 

That said, you can do both and that's what people who like to fight should aspire too. As I know I am terrible at objectives, I try to contribute to my team by supporting those objective bound when possible via combat. [Attack a nodes, defending nodes under attack, riding shotgun with a ball carrier, defending Agustin a bomb being placed, passing the ball to someone who will put me to shame objective points wise I most certainly answer calls, peeling for healers,[ i have missed a few calls because of tunnelitis and the haze of battle a time or two, I'm a dumb *** that way sometimes, I try to limit such occurrences though ] . I don't really care where I fight people.

 

Fighting isn't wrong in WZs, you cannot win without fighting. Additionally, people aren't going to ask to attack you firstFighting was never a thing that wasn't intended. When you want to punish people for doing things you don't want them to do awarding stacking medals because it's a sound deterrent. Ergo it was intended and stacking combat medals means people will chase that at times. Whether you leave the WZ or not over such occurances most people want to play PVP as they dont even really know anything for sure til the end.

 

I see warzones as being 50/50 with regard to the importance of fighting and objectives. Completely ignoring all objective related acts, even *I* thing that's wrong

what?! I thought farming solo queuers takes mad skillies Edited October 13, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

Well of the other "four" players about half of them can and actually are new players who dont know where to go or how to play, they really are not focusing objs becuase they dont know what to do. Now you take those 2 newb players who arent gonna be much help plus the 4 farming players who are going to be just as useless and that leaves only 2 players trying to win the game against the other team. This proves disastrous when the farming premade all go to the enemies node as soon as they drop from the platform and the newb players (who dont know where to go) naturally follow them leaving mid completely empty enemy grabs mid without a fight and on top of that they fail to grab their turret as well. Edited October 13, 2018 by Dcardinalone

If you detest the number farming in regs, just manoeuvre around your farming teammates. What I mean by this is if they go to south to farm numbers in Novare Coast, you go to either west or east to take that node instead. What usually ends up happening is the enemy team engages the number farming group in a 7v4 which either ends up in a stalemate, or the farmers die. You go where they are not and do your objective play. Number farmers usually attract a lot of attention so taking the off-node should be easy for the other four players. This way they get to do their number chasing and you can still win the match.

Number farming and death matching at the detriment of losing the game is what’s killed pvp in my opinion.

The new people people see these premades or good players doing this and think that is how you pvp. It’s no wonder regs is so terrible.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Totemdancer

Let's be honest here. There are two types of farming premades (for the most part).

There are guys that play solo ranked and occasionally jump into regs. Realistically you can't excpect them to play for the objectives; it's not in their mentality, it's not their thing...and you can't forbid them to play regs.

Then there are these other guys who play the game since forever, the veterans of a sort. Most of these guys cannot be bothered anymore with the objectives and for good reason; they have been doing them for years. If you are a veteran stuck on guarding the objective while other players who can't break 1 k dps are all over the place doing nothing, you will eventually end up with the mindset to not bother wth the objectives anymore.

The problem comes from the new players imo. These are the ones that must do the objectives, but they don't. Are you a valor 35, 119 k HP assasin? go to the offnode and guard it, don't go mid, you will be useless there. The game is seven years old, there many guides to wz's and pvp so that a new player can learn about the maps and the objectives, but none of them does.

TL;DR Ranked players don't care about objectives and never will, veterans cannot be bothered anymore and new players are not interested to learn.These are the reasons, as far as i can tell, that pvp is so bad.

Let's be honest here. There are two types of farming premades (for the most part).

There are guys that play solo ranked and occasionally jump into regs. Realistically you can't excpect them to play for the objectives; it's not in their mentality, it's not their thing...and you can't forbid them to play regs.

Then there are these other guys who play the game since forever, the veterans of a sort. Most of these guys cannot be bothered anymore with the objectives and for good reason; they have been doing them for years. If you are a veteran stuck on guarding the objective while other players who can't break 1 k dps are all over the place doing nothing, you will eventually end up with the mindset to not bother wth the objectives anymore.

TL;DR Ranked players don't care about objectives and never will, veterans cannot be bothered anymore and new players are not interested to learn.These are the reasons, as far as i can tell, that pvp is so bad.

 

And both of those groups are selfish and ruin reg pvp. They also teach new players and noobs the wrong way to play regs because they look at these good players and think that’s how pvp works in this game.

That is part of the reason regs are so rubbish to begin with and why Ranked arena as a format has been detrimental to 8v8 pvp since it was introduced and 8v8 was removed.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Totemdancer

And both of those groups are selfish and ruin reg pvp. They also teach new players and noobs the wrong way to play regs because they look at these good players and think that’s how pvp works in this game.

That is part of the reason regs are so rubbish to begin with and why Ranked arena as a format has been detrimental to 8v8 pvp since it was introduced and 8v8 was removed.

 

I agree - if you're going to queue for objective based pvp, play objectives. Its that simple. And btw I'm a 6 year veteran of this game, and when i go dps, i end up guarding about 50-75% of the time.

 

Its simple, i want to win.

And both of those groups are selfish and ruin reg pvp. They also teach new players and noobs the wrong way to play regs because they look at these good players and think that’s how pvp works in this game.

That is part of the reason regs are so rubbish to begin with and why Ranked arena as a format has been detrimental to 8v8 pvp since it was introduced and 8v8 was removed.

 

I disagree, the main reason that regs are so bad is that no one is learning how to actually pvp so you end up with two types of newbs:

 

1: Newbs that can't pvp or click on nodes

2: Newbs that can't pvp but can click on nodes

 

Neither group is worthwile when they are forced to go against experienced/skilled players who both know how to pvp and click on nodes.

 

Most veteran players find little sense of accomplishment in winning a reg match vs players that could be interchanged with bots (actually a bot might out play the average player you encounter in regs...).

 

I always find it funny when people talk about 8vs8 ranked because most games, when ~evenly matched teams fought each other, were determined by who was better at healing/peeling/killing:

 

It was rare that decent groups would lose to a cheeky sap cap

Novare was a giant mid fight with the occasional node guard skirmishes

Ancient Hypergates was essentially two small arena skirmishes on the side nodes

Huttball was 100% mid control

Voidstar was a kill farming contest

 

The only map that was generally determined by objective play was Novare Coast because of the triple node split (whoever capped first would usually win).

 

If they re-introduced 8vs8 ranked today I truly believe all of the try-hard objective players would be in for a rude awakening because the majority of "death-matchers," ranked-players, and farmers are fully capable of playing objectively and would have the upper hand in the actual pvp engagements (assuming that they could find someone willing to guard a node ).

No one cares about regs. During the rare times when I try to win at objs one of the pugs ruins the game for us.

It's boring and senseless.

I disagree, the main reason that regs are so bad is that no one is learning how to actually pvp so you end up with two types of newbs:

 

1: Newbs that can't pvp or click on nodes

2: Newbs that can't pvp but can click on nodes

 

Neither group is worthwile when they are forced to go against experienced/skilled players who both know how to pvp and click on nodes.

 

Most veteran players find little sense of accomplishment in winning a reg match vs players that could be interchanged with bots (actually a bot might out play the average player you encounter in regs...).

 

I always find it funny when people talk about 8vs8 ranked because most games, when ~evenly matched teams fought each other, were determined by who was better at healing/peeling/killing:

 

It was rare that decent groups would lose to a cheeky sap cap

Novare was a giant mid fight with the occasional node guard skirmishes

Ancient Hypergates was essentially two small arena skirmishes on the side nodes

Huttball was 100% mid control

Voidstar was a kill farming contest

 

The only map that was generally determined by objective play was Novare Coast because of the triple node split (whoever capped first would usually win).

 

If they re-introduced 8vs8 ranked today I truly believe all of the try-hard objective players would be in for a rude awakening because the majority of "death-matchers," ranked-players, and farmers are fully capable of playing objectively and would have the upper hand in the actual pvp engagements (assuming that they could find someone willing to guard a node ).

 

Why do you think the noobs can’t pvp these days?

It’s because they are learning by watching people who don’t play properly.

That and the fact there they don’t learn to pvp first in lowbies and Mids where they should be. (That’s a Bioware caused problem)

 

I learnt to play objects the hard way. Against proper objective players who could think strategy and fight at the same time. I would have to grind match after match against them. But I also learnt a great deal from watch them and being able to ask them for advice or help.

None of that happens anymore because the skilled players usually can’t be bothered to teach a bunch of arogent noobs who’ve learnt bad habits of death match players or other noobs.

Those that do learn are few and far between because they’ve got no one watch and learn from.

 

That’s why we have such a bad class of players in pvp now.

You have those who can’t play and don’t want to learn

You have those who want to learn but have no one to learn from

You have those who think they know how to play, running around in a group imatating death match people

You have those who think they are good (and aren’t) and refuse to listen to advice on how to get better (these people are more detrimental than death match people because they are normally arogent, loud and are enforcing their bad play style on noob players).

You have those death match people who 4v1 global a defender and then all run off and leave the node unguarded.

I can continue with more reasons if you like... but I think that should be enough to make that point.

 

I like to fight as much as the next person. I relish playing better players because I always learn from them. I would love to have ranked 8v8 come back. It would sort the women or the men from the boys. We could finally have some proper combat while playing to win instead of the crap-fest we have now.

I miss ranked 8v8 with a passion, but it did have its problems. One of those was making it group only. If they had set it up like regs with solo or maximum 4man premades, it would have worked much better. Even if they’d tried a solo queue like we have for 4v4, it would have been more successful.

 

The problem with 4v4 as the only outlet for ranked is a lot of those 8v8 people left. The rest of us got stuck playing regs if we want to play objectives. Then you have the arena minded death match players who want to only fight and not play the objectives. I get that, I really do, but go play ranked if you just want to fight. There is an outlet or that play style and bringing it into objective pvp ruins the only outlet objective players have left.

 

I think the reason a lot of those death match players don’t play ranked is they aren’t quite good enough or they are scared to look bad. They would prefer to be regstar death matches to look like gods against noobs.

The biggest mistake when they introduced arena was not adding a seperate reg 4v4 queue to accommodate the death match regstars.

Now Bioware have compounded that by removing 4v4 pops unless the queue numbers get really low. I can’t really blame the people who prefer arena being annoyed about that and deathmatching in 8v8. But it doesn’t mean I like it or that it’s not teaching noobs bad habits.

 

Bioware should never have totally removed 8v8 ranked. They should have either added a solo queue for it like 4v4 has or set it up like reg 8v8. Then there would be an outlet for the better players and the noobs could have a play ground to learn in.

If they had done that when they added 4v4 ranked and also added a 4v4 reg queue, we probably wouldn’t have some of the problems we have now and we’d most likely have more players.

 

At the end of the day, most of the blame for the sad state of pvp is Bioware’s fault. But those players who are good and just death match and farm noobs in reg 8v8 are also making a significant contribution to the situation.

What’s makes this even sadder is a lot of those death squads aren’t good players and if they aren’t 4v1 on someone, they can’t kill them. I can’t count how many times I can 1v4 some death squads and they can’t kill me for a good amount of time, if at all. That should not even be close to possible,

So these death match squads can’t play the objects, they can’t fight and they lose because they are 4v1 on people all over the map while the other team holds all 3 nodes and uses one to two people to run the fools all over the map to give their team a numbers advantage.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Totemdancer

No one cares about regs. During the rare times when I try to win at objs one of the pugs ruins the game for us.

It's boring and senseless.

 

I’ve a solution for you, just go play ranked and don’t ever queue for regs. Problem solved.

I’ve a solution for you, just go play ranked and don’t ever queue for regs. Problem solved.

Ranked doesn't always pop. I need to kill time.

Just do better.

Ranked doesn't always pop. I need to kill time.

Just do better.

 

Ranked would pop all the time if those death match people all queued for ranked instead of being reg stars who need easy kills.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Totemdancer

No one cares about regs. During the rare times when I try to win at objs one of the pugs ruins the game for us.

It's boring and senseless.

 

What is the cost of the skill and experience if one pug can ruin a game for you? You can't count to 8 and know when there is a time to go help a pug before he calls for incoming? Or you don't know how many stealthers are in the other team and what they are supposed to do now when you don't see them?

 

I actually don't think that people who don't care for reg wins but care to queue regs and go gank whoever they see first can't count to 8. They just want team death match with respawn and use whatever map to simulate this. I also would be happy to play such a map in SWTOR. It just makes no sense to me misusing the map objectives in such a way. Imo going farming mobs on Alderaan is nearly the same fun with rare excetions.

Ranked would pop all the time if those death match people all queued for ranked instead of being reg stars who need easy kills.

 

 

You wouldn't be easy kills if you got better.

What is the cost of the skill and experience if one pug can ruin a game for you? You can't count to 8 and know when there is a time to go help a pug before he calls for incoming? Or you don't know how many stealthers are in the other team and what they are supposed to do now when you don't see them?

 

I actually don't think that people who don't care for reg wins but care to queue regs and go gank whoever they see first can't count to 8. They just want team death match with respawn and use whatever map to simulate this. I also would be happy to play such a map in SWTOR. It just makes no sense to me misusing the map objectives in such a way. Imo going farming mobs on Alderaan is nearly the same fun with rare excetions.

 

We can't go from one end of the map to the other if a Pug gets mezzed or 1v1'd by someone.

He either:

1. Calls too late.

2. Never calls.

 

 

4 players can't carry the other 4. Usually.

No one *********** calls anymore, and they haven't since 3.0.

They call when their failed 1v1 leads to a cap.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Ruhun

You wouldn't be easy kills if you got better.

 

I’m no where near an easy kill. I just prefer 8v8 format. I can fight.

I’m no where near an easy kill. I just prefer 8v8 format. I can fight.

 

I like the 8v8 too. I just like to scrap after 6 years.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Ruhun

I like the 8v8 too. I just like to scrap after 6 years.

 

And there are no 8v8 formats where that is the primary objective - go do arenas to "scrap" and leave those of us who still prefer objective based play even if we have been doing it for 6 years to do objective based play.

 

PS: no one enjoys node guarding. Its a necessity of objective based play, however.

All good stuff and arguments are funny....

1. DPS farmers are annoying WHEN they don't farm correctly - When they farm on Novare, Civil War or Yaven you can get the outside nodes when they deathmatch or stall on a point. The PROBLEM is when they move off node or split in 2's.

2. Other 4. Someone else said it best...new players follow the farmers ( no help to them and no help to other 1,2, or 3rd players)

3. Depending on the map... just quit and re-Q. You know who they are by now, so if you stay it's your fault.

4. Pros, elitist, vets crying about calling inc or when mezzed....LOL, seriously?? Calling INC- maybe one of the farmers are looking and will help, but other than Voidstar or Yavin...player ( if one of those 110 - 230 gear 118hp ) will lose if help does not respond ASAP. Getting Mezzed - Forget it....even if it is a decent stealth help will not arrive in time..UNLESS..vet player guarding.

5. "I'm farming because....." - Nobody cares...you want to farm? FARM....BUT don't cry, complain, and then call everyone else ****, suck, or etc because of your farming.

6. "New players won't take our advice" Hahaha...my buddy always says this...and sometimes tries to help, but seriously.. it's all about delivery..."why the **** did you do this", "why are you so _______,", or " you_______, you should have done this or that"....do you really think any new player will listen to you...on top of that...they have been cussed out or **** on every WZ and not listening to anyone....lol

 

Blame BW, players, or etc.....do yourself a favor and just have fun while the game is still here, because when the farmers leave and PvEers get tired of the repetitive content the game is going away anyway.