but the skill requirement is a little bit higher than the average player is comfortable with.

Lol.

Just lol dude.

I'll say it again: it's VERY server dependent (come to Bastion, pressured pilots go to battle scout, on Harbinger they go to gunships, on Ebon Hawk they compose long gothic poems). And the "people who play (some ship) are better than others" is such a myth that I'm shocked to see you still on top of that.

On Ebon Hawk they compose long gothic poems.

LOL.... I never composed poems

And the "people who play (some ship) are better than others" is such a myth that I'm shocked to see you still on top of that.

You misunderstand. I was only referring to low skill levels, I.E. your average pug. For your typical pug that struggles to hit 20k its easier to play something that stops and shoots or something that drops a drone that does the shooting, than it is to play something that requires shooting and flying at the same time.

Like in the ground game. If a bad/mediocre marauder gets in a fight with a bad/mediocre Pyro PT, the PT will likely wreck the marauder as Pyro's basic requirements are lower. However at high levels of play the outcome of murky and more even.

Same with GSF.

I honestly dispair at this. As always, those who use flashfires consistently maintain they are not OP and its all fine and then some random stuff about gunships thrown in. Using a particular build focused on max evasion and burst laser cannons, the Flashfire cannot be hit by anything other than mines. The flashfire in the hands of a good pilot can rack up kills and damage in extreme numbers and cannot be matched in a one on one encounter.

I say this having played every ship and against every type of ship and build. If you are using a flashfire and you dont think it is OP, then you are a sucky pilot. A bad bomber and a reasonable gunship pilot can do good damage. A expert bomber, GS , strike or other scout ship is absolutely nothing compared to an expert pilot in a sting or flashfire.

Im obviously not talking about new players who dont know what to do yet or dont know all the tricks. The top end of the game, its all about the flashfire and sting.

Last time, if GS is to remain properly competitive, then something has to give in the flashfire-sting optimum component balance. Do as I did, build a flashfire focused on evasion and you will find that it is unstoppable and even when playing with other good pilots, you will be far ahead on the leaderboard of every match

I honestly dispair at this. As always, those who use flashfires consistently maintain they are not OP and its all fine and then some random stuff about gunships thrown in.

You begin by addressing a group of pilots- "those who use flashfires"- so pretty much anything from this point forward is guaranteed certified angerpuke.

Using a particular build focused on max evasion and burst laser cannons, the Flashfire cannot be hit by anything other than mines.

This is objectively untrue. While this build is very frustrating to play against, you can absolutely score hits and kills against it.

The flashfire in the hands of a good pilot can rack up kills and damage in extreme numbers and cannot be matched in a one on one encounter.

And if on spawn every ship took 1400 hull damage instantly, the scout wouldn't be viable at all. We should up the scout's hull strength such that it would be viable in "blammo" game mode, just like we should apparently nerf it for "duel" game mode.

I would actually agree that if the game were a dueling sim, the flashfire would need SERIOUS nerfs. As it is, it can definitely lose in single combat to certain mine based strategies, but the flashfire can generally avoid these scenarios, and in a guaranteed 1v1 the flashfire would have all the time in the world.

But, thankfully, the devs have no intention of making a 1v1 version of GSF, so this isn't really on the table, and certainly not worth balancing the game around.

I say this having played every ship and against every type of ship and build.

I sort of don't even believe this. Are you really getting waxxed by flashfire when running overcharged shield, engine to shield converter boy bomber with seismic and concussion mines? Run that for, say, ten games and report back.

If you are using a flashfire and you dont think it is OP, then you are a sucky pilot.

This is the only part of your post I agree with. But, pretty much every good pilot IS of this opinion already. The post you are replying to is months old, and the game is entirely different now, but even with all those changes, it is still an overpowered ship, plain and simple. The solution? Well, they probably need some minor nerfs, or some meta adjustment. The devs are utterly silent on game balance except for breaking tooltips and snares without a patch note, so we have no idea what they will do. But they are on record as saying scouts are a little too good at damage.

When our team needs to press hard, we absolutely need good scouts- but not just them. I would much rather have a scout, a bomber and a gunship, than three scouts, on ANY game mode. Determining the mix of scouts, bombers, and gunships lets you slide what your team is able to do easy, and what it has a hard time doing. Stack of bombers can be useful, gunship wall can be useful, and the general GSF mix of 1-2 bombers, 1-3 gunships, and fill the rest out with scouts, is VERY effective- much more effective than just a stack of battle scouts.

Anyway:

1)- You are totally responding to a nectroll topic anyway.

2)- Everyone thinks type 2 scout needs some nerfs.

3)- The delta is nowhere near as good as you say.

Part of the above post I can get on board with, the problem is though, most fights are not balanced, most fights DO revolve around a few key players bringing in the kills and the objectives, in those scenarios (which are most) the ability to fight one on one is everything. I have already said a maxed out bomber can hold its own if you have the mines down already but its just not enough. Again the hull strength idea is a moot point with evasion. Hull strength only matters if you are getting hit, so saying they have low hull strenght is a meaningless point.

And yes I have played every ship (excpet firehauler actually, been trying to buy that for ages). Let me pick my own team of pilots, and balance is much less of an issue. But put me in a fight where I have maybe one decent player and there are two stings?, Ill have to go flashfire myself to even the odds. Zipping around the map racking in fast kills to bring the FFA to a close. MOST GSF fights have a few decent players with good ships but is a very heavy mix of totally new players or those without good ships. In this scenario which is the most common of all, the flashfire sting reigns supreme.

They are OP in the fact that they are often the chosen vehicle to carry games, because you have to be everywhere at once, blow something up fast and get back into cover. They flex well, have good vision control, have an excellent set of weapons for the job, and it takes another skilled player in an upgraded ship to shoot them down makes them perfect for solo queuing, and given that GSF is a low pop minigame, getting a good solo ship is almost paramount.

Hence why Stingfires are everywhere!

Shortly.

Gunships are OP (except maybe T2)

Bombers are OP

Scouts are OP. (T1 isn't in my opinion)

I'd say that buffing strikes would solve the problem. Give them distortion field and burst laser cannon and they will do perfectly.

Shortly.

Gunships are OP (except maybe T2)

Bombers are OP

Scouts are OP. (T1 isn't in my opinion)

 

I'd say that buffing strikes would solve the problem. Give them distortion field and burst laser cannon and they will do perfectly.

You're right.. Except in one single point.

T1 isn't in my opinion

T1 can be as deadly as T2 well played

it takes another skilled player in an upgraded ship to shoot them down

Seems to me this is pretty much true in any ship.

Shortly.

Gunships are OP (except maybe T2)

Bombers are OP

Scouts are OP. (T1 isn't in my opinion)

 

I'd say that buffing strikes would solve the problem. Give them distortion field and burst laser cannon and they will do perfectly.

But most strikes already have Heavy Lasers, which are clearly superior to Bursts, having higher accuracy, damage, and MUCH higher range. They are the king of lasers for jousting and making runs at gunships and defense turrets.

I really, REALLY wish Flashfire (or any Scout) had access to heavy lasers.

But most strikes already have Heavy Lasers, which are clearly superior to Bursts, having higher accuracy, damage, and MUCH higher range. They are the king of lasers for jousting and making runs at gunships and defense turrets.

 

I really, REALLY wish Flashfire (or any Scout) had access to heavy lasers.

HLC have much lower accuracy than BLC at their respective effective range. HLC is made to work between 200m and 6000m; BLC, under 2500m. One BLC shot hit for about 800-900 damage. One HLC shot hit for about 400. HLC DPS is at 706-662 in its best range. BLC DPS go up to 1017.

Learn your math before saying non sense.

Also, HLC has much HIGHER tracking penality.

HLC have much lower accuracy than BLC at their respective effective range. HLC is made to work between 200m and 6000m; BLC, under 2500m. One BLC shot hit for about 800-900 damage. One HLC shot hit for about 400. HLC DPS is at 706-662 in its best range. BLC DPS go up to 1017.

 

Learn your math before saying non sense.

 

Also, HLC has much HIGHER tracking penality.

I understood him sarcastically. He wasn't? O.o

I understood him sarcastically. He wasn't? O.o

He wasn't.

Numbers don't lie, and the numbers on the Detailed Tooltip say that Heavys have a higher range, accuracy, and DPS than Bursts.

I've never seen an incorrect tooltip

Numbers don't lie, and the numbers on the Detailed Tooltip say that Heavys have a higher range, accuracy, and DPS than Bursts.

Compare BLC effective range (500m) with HLC effective range (over 2000m).... Sure at 4000m, BLC are crap... But they are meant to be used under 2000m

Numbers don't lie, and the numbers on the Detailed Tooltip say that Heavys have a higher range, accuracy, and DPS than Bursts.

Yes, HLC has higher DPS (per tooltip) at 500m than BLC at 3000m, however BLC does ~300 more at 500m AND has a times lower tracking penalty (2% HLC v 0.5% BLC) AND 10% more accuracy (105% BLC v 115% HLC). In other words: let me see you hit something with HLC at 500m.

Numbers don't lie... If one knows how to interpret them. Just look at the average pay in various countries. Yes, strictly looking it is true, but you can't measure the standard of a country based on that.

But most strikes already have Heavy Lasers, which are clearly superior to Bursts,

Man, he sure got a lot of you with this.

I really, REALLY wish Flashfire (or any Scout) had access to heavy lasers.

See how he's in a thread about scout balance (albeit a crappy one) asking for scout buffs? Did he get you?