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Why no imperial trooper


Harlequintwo's Avatar


Harlequintwo
05.09.2012 , 12:39 PM | #481
@ Crito: It's a good point. I reckon it's mostly because Bounty Hunters have more iconically been part of the bad-guy team (hunting for Solo, in Episode II, Cad Bane, etc.). Meanwhile, the target audience watching the Clone Wars has probably gotten used to seeing the troopers as the good guys and with the Republic (Rex, Cody, etc.) and so want to plsy after them.

LordRaeth's Avatar


LordRaeth
05.09.2012 , 02:12 PM | #482
Quote: Originally Posted by Crito View Post
I'll be honest, I know next to nothing about the EU. I know enough about the EU to get the impression that it has grown into a confused mess of variable quality. So, I'm going to base my argument on what I do know - the movies. Those sixth movies of ... erm ... variable quality.

My point though is this; while there has been a lot of talk about whether the Imperials should have troopers, nobody has asked about (what is to me) the elephant in the room - why on earth do the Republic have troopers?

I mean, aren't troopers the bad guys? I watched New Hope back in the 70's and Empire in the early 1980's and loved them. I mean really loved them. To me the bad guys in Star Wars meant black armoured Sith Lords, Officers in grey uniforms and white armoured troopers. It's become a classic image and is deeply ingrained in our collective culture now. Even my 71 year old mother knows a Storm Trooper when she sees one (although she probably doesn't see one that often).

Now, if all I knew was the Original Trilogy, I'd be looking at SWTOR's Empire and be thinking, "Black armoured Sith - check. Grey uniformed officers - check. White armoured troopers - check. But, huh? What? they're on the wrong side!! The white armoured troopers are the good guys? Really?"

"Aha!" say the true fans though. "The white armoured guys started off as the god guys. Haven't you seen Attack of the Clones? Haven't you seen the Clone Wars? That's why the Republic have troopers."

Yeah but, I don't think that makes sense. I know there are 6 movies, not three. I also know that white armoured troopers appear in 5 out of the 6 movies. I also know that in 3 out of those 5 movies they are most definitely the bad guys. Yet, when you think about it, weren't they always the bad guys? They were definitely the bad guys in Revenge of the Sith because they killed all the jedi and made it possible for Palpatine to become Emperor. Can you really say they were not the bad guys at the start of that film? I think it's more a case of we didn't know they were the bad guys. In fact they are the same troopers as in Attack of the Clones.

Those aren't good guys! They're enemy sleeper agents! Those white armoured chaps were always the bad guys, it just took us 1 and a half movies for us to find out their true nature.

.. and another thing; at the beginning of Attack of the Clones, the Republic has no army. It has no troopers. It was Palpatine who secretly caused the army of clones to be created. He didn't corrupt something pre-existant in the Republic. He created something new and deadly, devious and erm, Sithy.

So, I'm left thinking that Bioware's mistake with troopers was making them a Republic class instead of an Imperial Class. Would it not have made more sense to assume that in making a clone army, Palpatine was creating something that the old Sith Empire had? After all, he also reinstated grey uniformed officers and a black armoured Sith Lord.

Well The Republic always had an army up until the Ruusan Reformation which kind of disbanded the Jedi as a Military force and the army in general I think. I'm not completely sure myself I just looked into it briefly to figure out why the republic didn't have an army before the clones came into being.

KtheN's Avatar


KtheN
05.10.2012 , 05:06 PM | #483
I have to say that both sides make good points. And I'm not really decided on which option would be best. I mean, sure it would be nice to for once not be the super awesome elite squad commander. But then again... regular grunt's don't see action every moment like in the game. (which is ok, becuz nobody is going to play a game where you spend 7 hours on guard duty and nothing happens.)

But maybe there could be a compromise. Say you're commander or XO of a squad...but you're not super high ranking spec forces squad like Havoc. You and your squad would go on missions and you would have to make important decisions and strategic moves as Commanding Officer. I'm just thinking that maybe a middle ground could be found here.
"Star Wars crap is the best crap of all"

-me

Crito's Avatar


Crito
05.11.2012 , 12:12 AM | #484
It just seems a bizarre design decision to me, for the Republic to get a soldier type character, but not the Imperials. Once you get below the level of Sith in Imperial society, the Empire is essentially a military dictatorship - but you can't actually play a member of its military? Weird.

If Bioware do add more classes later, then I hope they will consider some kind of military option for the Empire. It does not have to mirror the Republic Trooper.

I'd like to see some kind of assault trooper, kind of like a space marine. It could be an expert in boarding ships and close quarter fighting armed with a vibrosword in one hand and a pistol in the other perhaps. Give him imperial trooper style armour, a set of companions that are his squad members and a ship, similar in style to the fury (the only really Imperial looking ship in the game imho) and I'd be a very happy player. Maybe the mirror class for the Republic could be a wookie, then everyone is happy.
"Entitlement" - The new Godwinism

LordRaeth's Avatar


LordRaeth
05.11.2012 , 01:06 AM | #485
Well technically the Imperial Agent gets seconded to the Military throughout it's story.

Darkelefantos's Avatar


Darkelefantos
05.11.2012 , 05:25 AM | #486
OK, so you wanna be an Imperial Trooper. Let's check the credentials:

First, the original Republic Trooper. A member of Havoc Squad, the renowned best SpecForce Squad in the galaxy. Meaning that, basically, one would have to put up with being 2nd place. It's in no way heroic to be 2nd choice in the galaxy, who would want that? BW designed the stories with the being "heroic" in mind, every character is unique to the TOR-Universe and one of the best of his kind, some being THE best.

So now let's check Imperial SpecForces. Not that much to talk about, really, but anyway.
We have, number 1, Shadow Fist. Former rivals of the Havoc defectors, one of the best teams the Empire has. Status: All members KIA by an unfinished Havoc Squad.
Number 2: Pierce's BlackOps squad, aid in taking down the War Trust. Status: All but one KIA, surviving member reassigned to serve a Lord of the Sith personally.
Number 3 is Delta Squad. Serving on Ilum, Delta was originially supposed to take down the rayshields of a Republic base. Status: KIA.
There is also the Imperial Guard and the Emperor's guard, allegedly the best the Empire has to offer. Most members encountered throughout the game are KIA and fail to accomplish their goals.
There are also many other SpecOps soldiers encountered, but they aren't really worth mentioning, as they are either cannon fodder or only appear once and never again. Seems to me that the Empire needs to improve their training.

So basically, my point is, it's not really worth it story-wise.

Oh and also, it's not "Smugglers are Republic and BH are Empire", it's lore-wise that ONE special Smuggler and BH fight for the Republic and Empire respectively, kinda explained in the backstory. You have to see it's not about all Smugglers and Bounty Hunters, but about certain individuals who find themselves in a tough spot.

LordRaeth's Avatar


LordRaeth
05.11.2012 , 05:59 AM | #487
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkelefantos View Post
OK, so you wanna be an Imperial Trooper. Let's check the credentials:

First, the original Republic Trooper. A member of Havoc Squad, the renowned best SpecForce Squad in the galaxy. Meaning that, basically, one would have to put up with being 2nd place. It's in no way heroic to be 2nd choice in the galaxy, who would want that? BW designed the stories with the being "heroic" in mind, every character is unique to the TOR-Universe and one of the best of his kind, some being THE best.

So now let's check Imperial SpecForces. Not that much to talk about, really, but anyway.
We have, number 1, Shadow Fist. Former rivals of the Havoc defectors, one of the best teams the Empire has. Status: All members KIA by an unfinished Havoc Squad.
Number 2: Pierce's BlackOps squad, aid in taking down the War Trust. Status: All but one KIA, surviving member reassigned to serve a Lord of the Sith personally.
Number 3 is Delta Squad. Serving on Ilum, Delta was originially supposed to take down the rayshields of a Republic base. Status: KIA.
There is also the Imperial Guard and the Emperor's guard, allegedly the best the Empire has to offer. Most members encountered throughout the game are KIA and fail to accomplish their goals.
There are also many other SpecOps soldiers encountered, but they aren't really worth mentioning, as they are either cannon fodder or only appear once and never again. Seems to me that the Empire needs to improve their training.

So basically, my point is, it's not really worth it story-wise.

Oh and also, it's not "Smugglers are Republic and BH are Empire", it's lore-wise that ONE special Smuggler and BH fight for the Republic and Empire respectively, kinda explained in the backstory. You have to see it's not about all Smugglers and Bounty Hunters, but about certain individuals who find themselves in a tough spot.

That's only from your point of view though, on the Empire side, it can equally be said that the Empire classes take down the best of the best, it's only a matter of point of view, just because Havoc squad is said to be the best by the republic, doesn't mean it is.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
05.11.2012 , 06:12 AM | #488
....Or you could buy the CE and buy the Imperial trooper armor from the CE vendor for your agent.... just saying.

MasterRequiem's Avatar


MasterRequiem
05.11.2012 , 06:13 AM | #489
Why do people keep bringing in balance as if its an issue. An Imperial Trooper can fight alonside the Empire and against the Republic just as well as anyone else. Realistically, a smuggler would never be able to take one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy (which you are), yet it happens all the time. A lightsaber should kill an opponent in one hit, yet it takes loads of strikes. I don't see why it is being made into issue about the Imperial Trooper.
Hokey religions and glow-sticks are nothing compared to the power of beer and pie.

KorinHyvek's Avatar


KorinHyvek
05.11.2012 , 06:47 AM | #490
Somehow, I don't think playing as a storm trooper would lead to fulfilling gameplay, when the game is likely to end in the prologue when a moody sith chokes you to death because the recurring villain got away. Also, at this point, it's just not a good expenditure of resources to make a class that wouldn't add anything to the game mechanically, and would have a similar story to an existing one.
The Ferrin Legacy, Ebon Hawk
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