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Assassin today?


Lokyhj's Avatar


Lokyhj
09.17.2018 , 01:21 PM | #1
Hello! Haven't played in a while and came back to alot of CC so i bought some cosmetics.

How is assassin today? What spec is best?

Right now i am leveling a Sith assassin with my friend which is a sorcerer. And it seems like we are going to level alot, so i need to know what to spec.

Great to be back in the community! Thanks
''Evil is only the positive existence of our mind''

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.17.2018 , 05:28 PM | #2
Mercs, jugs, sniper rule the roost still .....even after being told countless times what would happen when they did "X" or that by doing "Y it equates to jack$&%^. The failure comes from a complete and utter understanding of the trinity system on the dev's part which is pretty simple TANKS|HEALS|DPS. YOu will notice there is no hybrid tank/pseudo dps for the explicit reason it breaks trinity 99% time if not balanced right. If your going to implement a hybrid then said classes DPS should be neutered about half that of pure DPS specs. The players know this thus the reason you have no less than 3 mercs and 3 jugs a match with usually 2 snipers the rest filler and a sorc heals.

That being said deception with high end gear will put out decent DPS but the caveat is you will die alot. Looking to solo Jugs and mercs good luck yes it possible problem is you have to "NOT ATTACK" while certain abilities are up or to avoid healing them but mean while they can attack you at will. By staying out of melee range you can avoid some of there attacks but they have far more range attacks than we do. The same goes for merc to the dev team has no brains on this one they have everything PLUS and extra kitchen sink you'll dish out enough DPS to kill them at least twice over but thanks to our inept dev team your usually dead around this time too. while they usually have one more life to go! The good news is there are a plethora of players now playing bad mercs simply cause they know it's an I win class and they haven't quite figured out how to do a rotation which leads to some really sweet kills were you will revel in the win.

Hatred spec is the dot spec can be competitive though your still squishy as all hell. Don't play this much I like the one one of deception instead of EZ "I target mob" launch AOE's and ooooo look i did awesome DPS by running around map dot -n- peeps. IF your into that then this might be for you they do become annoying just like PT and there "i'll set you on fire DOTs"

Tank spec haven't played this much though I have seen ALOT of peeps trying to run DPS mods and enhancements in what seems like an all out effort to avoid dying as EZ as Deception does. Problem is most of these peeps don't even throw out a guard or use their taunts and end up with a laughable DPS and zero protection stats and when called on it you get the "i'll play how I want to play" response which I always respond with well ok if you always want to be at bottom of DPS AND have NO PROTECTION when that is what your class spec does it's gonna look rather silly when you get a deception throwing out more protection than you do and if that's me that's really bad cause i'm always forgetting to pop'em.

God forbid the dev team ever gets it act together though cause if they ever nerf these I win classes there will be a mass exodus because all the merc's, Jugs and snipers lost there "I win button" . They should really change their name to Destruction team
I don't mind loosing on the merits but all to often its these classes insane abilities to eek by. Which makes it all the harder to bring in new people to pvp. I mean when a tank does more DPS than deception that's just wrong. To be fair though the tank was in top end gear going up against a newbie but what do you think it did to his moral dev's? Like I said earlier no brains.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.17.2018 , 05:46 PM | #3
@kazz
You might be right about sins, but ffs stop spreading misinformation on juggie dps. Its a squishy as crap spec because, as i have explained too many times to count, it lacks an anti-focus tool. A mercs reflect + heal is vastly superior to a juggies in what it reflects, and it also prevents damage. To accomplish not nearly as good a reflect + heal as merc requirea two buttons, melee attacks hit through it, and the heal is not timed but capped on stacks, making it infinitely easier to work around or burn through. And additionally, guardians are easier to kite than mercs or snipers because we are melee. If you're solo, just kite, cc, or mezz when FD appears on the buff tray. If there are 2 or more just burn through it and watch him melt.

Its snipers mercs and maras that rule the roost

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.17.2018 , 06:07 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
@kazz
You might be right about sins, but ffs stop spreading misinformation on juggie dps. Its a squishy as crap spec because, as i have explained too many times to count, it lacks an anti-focus tool. A mercs reflect + heal is vastly superior to a juggies in what it reflects, and it also prevents damage. To accomplish not nearly as good a reflect + heal as merc requirea two buttons, melee attacks hit through it, and the heal is not timed but capped on stacks, making it infinitely easier to work around or burn through. And additionally, guardians are easier to kite than mercs or snipers because we are melee. If you're solo, just kite, cc, or mezz when FD appears on the buff tray. If there are 2 or more just burn through it and watch him melt.

Its snipers mercs and maras that rule the roost
I do believe that's what I said earlier kite and avoid melee, don't attack when stuff is up i've done it and it takes a long time compared to other classes and while they don't rise quite to the level of merc's and snipers it still op you get at least 1 maybe 1.5 extra lives vs the 3 that mercs and snipers get. For the DPS you put out its to much. Take mercs and snipers out of the que and jugs DPS if they know how to run the class are always top dog. Best Damage reduct in game and Don't even get me started on the whole tossing us across the map either that should be nerfed and turned into a stun like our knock down was!

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.17.2018 , 06:17 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazz_Devlin View Post
I do believe that's what I said earlier kite and avoid melee, don't attack when stuff is up i've done it and it takes a long time compared to other classes and while they don't rise quite to the level of merc's and snipers it still op you get at least 1 maybe 1.5 extra lives vs the 3 that mercs and snipers get. For the DPS you put out its to much. Take mercs and snipers out of the que and jugs DPS if they know how to run the class are always top dog. Best Damage reduct in game and Don't even get me started on the whole tossing us across the map either that should be nerfed and turned into a stun like our knock down was!
Im not going to debate sin vs jugg with you. I think all dps specs of tank capable classes need looking at (pt being rhe worst of the lot survivability wise). But your estimation of juggie survivability under focus is astonishingly higher than it really is. The people i have seen who claim it is high that i know personally fall into one of a few categories: players who can't deal damage themselves, bitter PT players, or players who lack the basic strategy of dealing with other classes.

Do note: i think that dps survivability in general could use reducing in pvp. Unfortunetly what i think and what the devs think are obviously two astonishingly different concepts.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.18.2018 , 12:50 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Im not going to debate sin vs jugg with you. I think all dps specs of tank capable classes need looking at (pt being rhe worst of the lot survivability wise). But your estimation of juggie survivability under focus is astonishingly higher than it really is. The people i have seen who claim it is high that i know personally fall into one of a few categories: players who can't deal damage themselves, bitter PT players, or players who lack the basic strategy of dealing with other classes.

Do note: i think that dps survivability in general could use reducing in pvp. Unfortunetly what i think and what the devs think are obviously two astonishingly different concepts.
Well I guess one needs to understand what you mean by "under focus" are you talking one on one or multiple attackers and whether you think jugs put out more DPS than sins do. While I am not elite I am competitive usually top DPS for sins in most matches save for good Hatred specs. It is my opinion Jugs survival in correlation to their DPS is higher than an assassins. While it's possible to win against a jug its a hvy weight vs a lightweight fight you make one mistake or don't have certain utilities the outcome is usually in jugs favor!

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.18.2018 , 01:45 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazz_Devlin View Post
Well I guess one needs to understand what your mean by "under focus" are you talking one on one or multiple attackers?
Multiple attackers, one on one is not something i particularly do that often personally as guardians are also a rather terrible node guard.

Vigi for example functions as an aoe pressure spec. It has probably the easiest dot spread in the game, and unlike a annhi mara can do enough burst to pressure a single target. The spec is crippled however, because this tactic inevitably draws attention that it is incapable of handling. FD is great against a single opponent who doesnt know how to work around it (or against multiple very bad players). Against multiple good to average players it doesnt delay the inevitable by so much as 1 second. Vigi by nature forces you to be constantly taking damage and attracting attention, then gives you no means kf dealing with that attention (reflect is supposed to serve that purpose, but because of the limited damage types it reflects, it fails). Sents, shadows, and opers have a fake or real or actual stealth outs. Note the two melee classes that do not are guardians and PTs, both of whom have self heals (if pt kolto even counts XD ).

Focus is different, and i play it less because frankly I'd just as soon go play my concentration sent that accomplishes the same goal better. Focus, like concentration, is a single target burst spec. Concentration is far better equipped to handle this task because of its greater mobility and immunities.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.18.2018 , 03:10 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Multiple attackers, one on one is not something i particularly do that often personally as guardians are also a rather terrible node guard.

Vigi for example functions as an aoe pressure spec. It has probably the easiest dot spread in the game, and unlike a annhi mara can do enough burst to pressure a single target. The spec is crippled however, because this tactic inevitably draws attention that it is incapable of handling. FD is great against a single opponent who doesnt know how to work around it (or against multiple very bad players). Against multiple good to average players it doesnt delay the inevitable by so much as 1 second. Vigi by nature forces you to be constantly taking damage and attracting attention, then gives you no means kf dealing with that attention (reflect is supposed to serve that purpose, but because of the limited damage types it reflects, it fails). Sents, shadows, and opers have a fake or real or actual stealth outs. Note the two melee classes that do not are guardians and PTs, both of whom have self heals (if pt kolto even counts XD ).

Focus is different, and i play it less because frankly I'd just as soon go play my concentration sent that accomplishes the same goal better. Focus, like concentration, is a single target burst spec. Concentration is far better equipped to handle this task because of its greater mobility and immunities.
The cloak ability is really dependent on taking shroud of madness which prevents dots from popping one out of stealth and emersion is vital or your just a sitting duck with all of the roots and slows. This also means one has to forgo instant cast of whirlwind giving jug advantage with stuns. (yeah i know force choke has a 1.45 channel / whirlwinds' is two seconds advantage jug). If your a sin that doesn't have the above mentioned abilities a 1 vs 1 jug fight is hard as hell to pull off. (doable but hard as hell)
Unlike the Assassins reflect, which visual cue (if taken) is plainly evident for all to see, jugs in contrast is a small red sparkly ability that lasts like a half a second... blink and you missed it giving jug yet another advantage. Kiting also isn't that easy either as you have like four or five abilities that grant immunity to movement impairing effects one that even increase your dmg output by 10%. Factor in ED and the inherent lag on the sever the delay for player to recognizes it's been popped you've usually had at least 2 or more abilities land bestowing a least a 15k heal. If you got payback you could get another 15k heal.

Assassins get one heal off overload saber for what amounts to 20K most of the time coupled with a player crafted stim that's 68-76K compare that to jugs abilities and a stim which is 78k to 86k advantage Jug. Now assassin can go renewing darkness but then by doing so they pretty much need to take certain utilities in order to make class as efficient as possible and you do end up sacrificing utilities that would improve overall DPS. Plus play style is more of hit and run and hide which is viable though less fun IMHO.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.18.2018 , 04:43 PM | #9
1v1 fights frankly i couldnt care less about. Its like rock paper scissors. Snipers are arguably op/fotm right now but a good mara will rip a good sniper to pieces.

Utilties are always a thing for every class. If you pick ones that are bad, thats on you. My tank for instance must choose betweem lower guardian leap cd and the saber throw root/awe cd reduction (and the longer reflect technically but i consider this mandatory). Ideally i would like all 3 of these on my tank, but since they are all in the last tier it is impossible and thus, i must choose 2. Fyi its also utilities that give most immunities to movement impairing effects, excepting vigi's leap "immunity".

I think our disagreement comes down to 1v1 vs team play. I couldnt give much less of a crap about 1v1 play. The only time thats relevant for me is if I'm node guarding and if its a shadow, hes not going to try a straight 1v1, hes going to try to sap cap.

At worst, juggies and shadows are equal in team play. They each have their uses. My argument is that a guardians role as either an aoe pressure spec or as a single target burst spec js better done by classes that are more survivable or can survive the inevitable focus of the enemy team better. I had an arena last night with my friends - a oper healer, my vigi guardian, a concentration sent, and a deception sin. Both rounds i was focused first. Both rounds we won because they grouped up in my dot spread and let our healer free cast. But im their defense, it would have worked on a lesser vigi guardian.

If you really hate immunities that bad, you must really hate concenteation sents. Or is it just you are unable to accept rhat DR based DCDs are in fact better than the self heals of non-healing capable classes?

And yes, an ASSASSIN has a hit and run playstyle. If you don't like that maybe its not the class for you.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.19.2018 , 10:00 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
1v1 fights frankly i couldnt care less about. Its like rock paper scissors. Snipers are arguably op/fotm right now but a good mara will rip a good sniper to pieces.

Utilties are always a thing for every class. If you pick ones that are bad, thats on you. My tank for instance must choose betweem lower guardian leap cd and the saber throw root/awe cd reduction (and the longer reflect technically but i consider this mandatory). Ideally i would like all 3 of these on my tank, but since they are all in the last tier it is impossible and thus, i must choose 2. Fyi its also utilities that give most immunities to movement impairing effects, excepting vigi's leap "immunity".

I think our disagreement comes down to 1v1 vs team play. I couldnt give much less of a crap about 1v1 play. The only time thats relevant for me is if I'm node guarding and if its a shadow, hes not going to try a straight 1v1, hes going to try to sap cap.

At worst, juggies and shadows are equal in team play. They each have their uses. My argument is that a guardians role as either an aoe pressure spec or as a single target burst spec js better done by classes that are more survivable or can survive the inevitable focus of the enemy team better. I had an arena last night with my friends - a oper healer, my vigi guardian, a concentration sent, and a deception sin. Both rounds i was focused first. Both rounds we won because they grouped up in my dot spread and let our healer free cast. But im their defense, it would have worked on a lesser vigi guardian.

If you really hate immunities that bad, you must really hate concenteation sents. Or is it just you are unable to accept rhat DR based DCDs are in fact better than the self heals of non-healing capable classes?

And yes, an ASSASSIN has a hit and run playstyle. If you don't like that maybe its not the class for you.
Actually I embrace my glass cannon-ness as Deception I do as much damage as possible to target, I'd rather use the cloak to reset recklessness for added damage than cloak out and run away to heal. I'm ok with being a glass cannon what annoy's me is the fact that Mercs', snipers and jug should be too, so either DCD's need to be reduced or DPS reduced no DPS class should have "EXTRA LIVES" OR give SIns back the DPS they were doing at least then we were competitive.
but I digress, you are correct in we disagree vs 1 on 1 vs team because this is the inherent problem! You and the devs refuse to see the impact that a 1 vs 1 encounter has. You completely ignore it and write it off as oh it's a team match. If it ain't balanced 1 vs 1 how in the hell is it balanced when you have 3 jugs in a match? This is the reason that Merc's, Snipers, and yes jugs are all the dominant classes. Take a 4 vs 4 arena match 4 jugs vs 4 assassins the match is by default in jugs favor, yes four sins could focus 1 jug however, in the time it would take to kill him 1.5 sins are already dead from being focused by the jugs the reason being is the sin's have to "stop attacking" to avoid taking there own dmg reflected or to avoid healing the jug.

Don't even go there with cloak cause you dang well know the four jugs would leap and pop area stun once the sins focus'd one jug any sin breaking that would then be stunned from 2nd third or 4th jugs AOE stun. Keep in mind I am not talking tank spec and am talking DPS which are suppose to be glass cannon's that's the whole concept of the trinity system TANK HEAL DPS. Your DCD's allow you at least 1.5 lives and people playing the class keep saying you need anti focus well you have it far more than sins do. When was the last time you were force to actually stopped attacking a sin? Now I don't mind having reflects in game but there need's to be a counter and cloak isn't one if you can pop someone out of it! Plus the visual cues for said reflecting abilities need to to be perceived, prominent and profound!

I mean you seem to think that cloak is the end all panacea to being focused if a sin cloaks hit mad dash wam bam Bobs' your uncle and the sin is popped 99% of the time, if sin vs sin hit lacerate bam popped. Hell if a sin doesn't take shroud of madness drop ANY AOE & bam popped add a taunt on the off chance you got unlucky and they escape with that 1% and you don't pop him, he can't use mind trap & can't heal cause "STILL IN COMBAT" thanks to the taunt.
Look, it might be different if sins had an actual heal or at very least our reflect was like yours because then you would be forced to "Not" attack us but as it stands now 50% reflect most sins don't even take i! Plain simple fact a jug can burn through us even with the reflect popped! Hit temp health if they really needed to and leap to next target leaving the sins corpse on the ground.

So yes 1 vs 1 matters because as long as you have " I WIN CLASSES" you upset the balance and impose a barrier that NON "I WIN CLASSES" have to over come which increases with every said class added to that team. This is the reason why only certain classes are desired in ranked and others are frowned upon and discouraged. It is also the reason most typical pvp matches consist of no less than 3 mercs, 3 jugs and at least one sniper.