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Shadow Tank (stat/gearing check)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Shadow Tank (stat/gearing check)

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
09.05.2018 , 07:48 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
People need to ask themselves if lazy healing is just as acceptabke as lazy tank gearing. If ur role is tank, gear for optimal survivability, unless the group asks for, or needs more dps for enrage timers. Any survivability that is negkected just makes the healers job more difficult, even if its doable.

Of course people have a right to, and likely will, gear however they want. But you can also ignore and/or not group with whoever you dont like, too.
It's not really lazy tank gearing, it's gearing yourself to be far more useful in a boss fight and less susceptible to spike damage. I am not sure if you have healed much nightmare content but my personal experiance from healing nightmare is that tanks die from spike damage far more than they die from "lazy healing". Gearing for more endurance makes this far less common and if the tank then decides to go for power or defence is of little importance to me, it's hardly noticeable in terms of Tank DTPS.

High endurance mods/enhancements are an advantage and if you don't use them, regardless if you use the power version or the defence version for the mods, you are making it more difficult for the healers. The decision to use Power or Defence as the stat, however, is a bit of a tossup, the damage reduction you gain from the extra defence is negligible and the extra DPS you gain from the power is hardly noticeable.

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Is there any other reason for a pvp'er to sub?
There's the obvious reason to help financially support the game.

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
09.06.2018 , 07:07 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
It's not really lazy tank gearing, it's gearing yourself to be far more useful in a boss fight and less susceptible to spike damage. I am not sure if you have healed much nightmare content but my personal experiance from healing nightmare is that tanks die from spike damage far more than they die from "lazy healing". Gearing for more endurance makes this far less common and if the tank then decides to go for power or defence is of little importance to me, it's hardly noticeable in terms of Tank DTPS.

High endurance mods/enhancements are an advantage and if you don't use them, regardless if you use the power version or the defence version for the mods, you are making it more difficult for the healers. The decision to use Power or Defence as the stat, however, is a bit of a tossup, the damage reduction you gain from the extra defence is negligible and the extra DPS you gain from the power is hardly noticeable.
Im not specifically talking about nightmare/master mode, because generally those ops have more 1 shot mechanics, and require much more skilled players. That said, there are plenty of times when a lesser attack that ends up wiping the group could have been mitigated more if the tank was better geared defensively. Also keep in mind the number of times a dps is sacrificed to save the tank when a choice between the two at low health must be made. Could that situation have been avoided in the first place if the healer hadnt been needing to overheal all the way up to that specific point? Its easy to point out flaws and solutions to a momentary situation (i.e. i died to a 1 shot, solution act sooner to avoid 1 shot), but there have been so many times ranging from SM to HM to MM that ive seen (and been, as i do heal as well) fights where the tank is getting pummelled by RNG, and you look down and he isnt even doing everything he can to prevent the pummelling, with non-defensive mods/enh/gear in place. And many reasons its seen as the healer being the problem - i.e. " why cant you keep him up, its only SM??"

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
09.06.2018 , 08:24 AM | #13
There is no way I can argue against an imaginary non-realistic scenario, you gear as you wish but the consensus is high endurance mods/enhancements and power mods if you want the best performance and survivability.

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Is there any other reason for a pvp'er to sub?
There's the obvious reason to help financially support the game.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.06.2018 , 08:37 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
There is no way I can argue against an imaginary non-realistic scenario, you gear as you wish but the consensus is high endurance mods/enhancements and power mods if you want the best performance and survivability.
You're 100% right, and I would further like to point out that its hardly "lazy" as tanks to gear optimally cannot just use vendored gear. You must craft, have someone craft, or spend inordinate amounts on the gtn. Or hope to get lucky with the atrocious drop rstes on 248 versions in command crates.

Farstrider's Avatar


Farstrider
09.06.2018 , 09:40 AM | #15
As an aside, Mk-5 gear will be craftable in the next update, which will be interesting.

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
09.06.2018 , 12:13 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
There is no way I can argue against an imaginary non-realistic scenario, you gear as you wish but the consensus is high endurance mods/enhancements and power mods if you want the best performance and survivability.
Nobody asked you to. People take damage, many times that can be avoided or mitigated more than it is because of any number of reasons including non-optimized gearing and standing in stupid. That unnecessary damage has to be healed, so poor decisions by other players often falls on the healer to compensate.

Nothing imaginary or non-realistic about that.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
09.06.2018 , 02:51 PM | #17
If you're in a group of somewhat competent people dtps isn't going to be what wipes you. It's going to be people standing in stupid, failing mechanics or poor use of cooldowns (popping them all and having none left or not popping them at all when you need them). Taking power mods over defense makes very little difference in an actual fight (though I personally prefer to get defense). Still power mods are a totally valid (and arguably the best) method of gearing, and calling it 'lazy' is just plain silly.

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
09.06.2018 , 02:56 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
If you're in a group of somewhat competent people dtps isn't going to be what wipes you. It's going to be people standing in stupid, failing mechanics or poor use of cooldowns (popping them all and having none left or not popping them at all when you need them). Taking power mods over defense makes very little difference in an actual fight (though I personally prefer to get defense). Still power mods are a totally valid (and arguably the best) method of gearing, and calling it 'lazy' is just plain silly.
The same can be said about every aspect of the game, tbh. If you have competent dps, you will meet dps checks. If you have competent healers, you will have no issues.

My whole premise is that not every group has competent everything, so there may be an aspect that needs to be subbed out - defense for more dps due to subpar dps in group, dps for defense due to subpar play or poor healing. In premade groups, there is, and should be, more flexibility to cater to your regular ops group. In pug, it is expected that each person is focus geared for that specific role, including dwt.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
09.06.2018 , 03:21 PM | #19
In the actual end game content, dps timers are extremely tight, and any bit of extra dps you can pull as a tank helps the group just as much (if not more) that the little extra defense you're getting from warding mods (defense is already present on all enhancements and is pretty far into diminishing returns already). In any easier content (SM/HM ops or flashpoints exluding gods from the machine hm) if you're wiping, you've got other problems that require fixing and swapping out to defense mods isn't going to fix them. I've yet to be in any group that was doing okay, but wiped because the healers weren't able to keep up with dtps. It's nearly always burst damage that is taken unnecessarily (either standing in stupid, bad tanking or bad cooldown usage) or failed mechanics. Neither of those will see marked improvement from a few extra percent defense chance.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
09.06.2018 , 08:44 PM | #20
I guess I have several questions now.
Spoiler

tl, dr: I would like to know thoughts on using single-high endurance enhancements over double-highs, thoughts on subbing high end Adv 54 enhancements over optimized 52 enhancements, and what people think about the incoming damage profile in GOTM relative to defense chance?
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