Not a troll just an honest question. Why would you want any other healer other then a Sorc in an operation or for that matter PvP? With auto separation of most gear that matters in terms of loot you don't feel bad taking a bunch of one class.

 

Sorc Barriers are super strong, last long and their Targeted AOE heal hits everyone. "life grip" can save a slow person or a baddie from a ground effect and can be used in gimmick fights. You can even talent their shield to give more bonus.

 

Mercs shield is meh, their AOE heal has a nice Delay and no BREZ.

 

Agents shield is shorter, absorbs less and their AOE heal is limited as well Their AOE heal isnt easily seen so people know to stand in it for example.

 

In pvp barrier is great and you get your "life grip" makes you so much more useful.

Edited February 1, 2012 by wtb_skillz

While there is a hint of QQ/Troll here, it is a legitimate question so I will bite.

 

If you are min/maxing for optimum efficiency right now, you are probably right. If you are a world or even server first type of Raiding guild, you might want to stack sorc.

 

But:

1) People enjoy healing as other classes. I think Merc Bodyguard is probably the lowest of the three ATM. I still like it.

2) The other classes are still effective. I heal hard mode FPs and 8-man Ops and do OK. We don't wipe due to the limitations of my mechanics.

3) This is an MMO subject to many nerf/buff cycles. If you load up on Sorcs now, what if they nerf Sorc next week? Have them all re-roll? I look at it as I have a good chance of being the OP healer in the not too distant future.

Edited February 1, 2012 by TempestasSilva

There is no QQ here our raid carries 2 sorcs 1 merc 1 op atm and we do fine. However I can see hard/nm bosses becoming a real pain. The lightning balls can do a ton of dmg. Also poor mercs no battle rez and their AOE hits the least amount of people what a bummer. In the fights there is a lot of AOE dmg but being in a clump does not really increase it which makes the Sorc heal shine.

While obviously playing what you want and be able to complete any difficulty is the goal if your raid carried 4 mercs vs 4 sorc I think you would be hard pressed to do a lot of fight as a full merc group. Barrier Cooldown is far to short and absorb is far to high. Even though you cant get a barrier on you again for 20 seconds it lasts 30 so you can preemptively shield people when dmg is predicted so its almost like a 4k insta heal. Their low lvl barrier becomes better then the 31 pt merc talent.

 

I mean it matters little to people its opinion. If you dont mind doing norm/hards and dont care about NM progression chances are you will care less about this as normal and most hard is velcro shoes easy. At least give poor mercs a brez

You should also consider your group makeup and potential loot drops. It'll be easier to gear your guild when you have less people fighting over loot drops. I play a sorcerer and started healing a week ago. I find that many of the healers available are also sorcs, but am reluctant to stack another healing sorc in my 8 man raid group just for diversification reasons. Ideally, I'd take 2 of each base class, but sometimes that's just not possible. Also, sorcs make pretty decent dps too, and I certainly wouldnt want 3 sorcs in an Op group. Operatives make very good healers and Mercs aren't far behind. I've cleared 4/5 Hardmode EV with myself (sorc) and merc healing - Soa's issues were not our healing inadequacies, but more mishandling of lightning balls.

There is already a huge thread on this http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=172310

 

 

Not sure what you expect to see here that has not been already said in the 100's of replies.

 

 

Short answer is of course no, Sorc is the best PvP and PvE healer by a wide margin...

There is already a huge thread on this http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=172310

 

 

Not sure what you expect to see here that has not been already said in the 100's of replies.

 

 

Short answer is of course no, Sorc is the best PvP and PvE healer by a wide margin...

 

I disagree. An OPS healer is very very hard to kill in PvP if played right. They can heal on the run forever. Its just takes 10X the skill using a OPS compared to the OP'ed SI's.

 

For PvE for the mobile boss fights I'd rather have an OPS healer. They can heal an entire OPS raid while on the move. IF your OPS is depending on his AoE heal... hes fail already. He should be spamming his probes and using his neverending supply of insta free heals combined with his AoE. A good OPS can keep this up forever.

 

Now as far as the OP aspect of an SI in PvP of being able to crap large amounts of damage and heal for large amounts with also the ability of a TON of stuns and cc's... thats another story. Your not going to see an OPS pushing big DPS numbers with big Heal numbers... thats the diffference. SI's need BIG f'in slap with the nerf stick in some aspect.

 

But really why would you want to roll an OP'ed class that EVERY noob is playing? Every Battleground is packed with them.. its sickening.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Blaaine

Sorcerer/Sage keeps the party alive easily, but is more difficult to keep the main tank alive as single traget healing is the worse of the 3.

 

Operative/Sawbones keeps the main tank alive easily, but is more difficult to keep the rest of the party alive due to bad AOE.

 

Mercenary/Commando is somewhat in-between but closer to Operative/Sawbones, it's better at healing the party than Operative/Sawbones, but it still a very very good main tank healer.

 

So really when you make a raid group you want:

1 - Mercenary/Commando/Operative/Sawbones - Main Tank Healer.

1 - Sorcerer/Sage - Party healer.

1 - Juggernaut/Guardian/Vanguard/Powertech - Main Tank.

1 - Vanguard/Powertech/Shadow/Assassin - Off Tank.

1 - Sorcerer/Sage DPS (for the massive CC they bring).

1 - AOE DPS for Boss adds.

1 - Burst-Single Boss Killer DPS.

1 - Random DPS.

Edited February 1, 2012 by AngelousWang

I feel like for PvE the balance in healing is close. I've solo-healed nightmare XRR-3 as an operative so they clearly don't lack the HPS to keep up with a sorc.

 

That said, after recently hitting 50 on my trooper I feel rather lacking compared to the other two classes. Kolto bomb severely needs a buff, both for pve and pvp. Raise the cap from 3 to 5-6 targets and it should be fine.

 

In terms of PvP utility I think sorcs are still the godmode healers. You have sprint, the lifegrip, aoe knockback(on a shorter cd than trooper, so stupid), and the ability to run a hybrid spec that makes you immortal(21/20/0).

 

If I was going to make changes to healers based on PvP here's what I'd do:

 

1) bring the other healers up to the sorc in terms of utility, I believe BW has already stated that's what they want to do in general

 

2) Lower the CD on the trooper/BH knockback to match that of the sorc

 

3) Make a talent deep medic tree that allows the trooper "reactive shield" to be stronger, maybe 50%. That can make up for the utility we don't have like sprint or the life grip.

 

4) Make a talent deep medic tree for operative/scoundrel that allows all utility to be 30m range instead of melee. Flash bang, the stun, interrupt, slow should all be 30m for a healer, as well as most of the damaging abilities.

 

5) Give the operative healer either a sprint or a knockback. A flash bang on 1-minute cd isn't the same as a sprint on a 30 sec cd or a knockback on a 20 sec cd.

Operative and sorc healing is damn near identical in rotation and execution. But sorcs get:

 

-a bubble

-a huge resource pool compared to operatives

- give an armor buff

- don't rely on a resource heavy cast to open

 

 

 

And thats why sorc's are superior to operatives.

Operative and sorc healing is damn near identical in rotation and execution. But sorcs get:

 

-a bubble

-a huge resource pool compared to operatives

- give an armor buff

- don't rely on a resource heavy cast to open

 

 

 

And thats why sorc's are superior to operatives.

 

Actually, no. You don't understand the differences.

 

The main reason sorcs are better in PvP is their utility such as a 30m stun, 30m slow, 30m interrupt, sprint, lifegrip, etc.

 

In PvE sorcs are better because their aoe heal is amazing. If the aoe heal of both the other classes is buffed they should all be on par in PvE.

Actually, no. You don't understand the differences.

 

The main reason sorcs are better in PvP is their utility such as a 30m stun, 30m slow, 30m interrupt, sprint, lifegrip, etc.

 

In PvE sorcs are better because their aoe heal is amazing. If the aoe heal of both the other classes is buffed they should all be on par in PvE.

 

 

Sorc aoe heal is only better when you need a small direct aoe heal to the group and afterward the group doesn't have to move. Otherwise the operative heal is more reliable.

 

 

The real problem between the heals is an operative has to blow 30% of their energy on it and sorcs only 16% of their force. And force > energy because of generation.

 

And this goes back to one of my main points. Sorcs resource pool is so much better than operatives.

Edited February 1, 2012 by GeoLager

Sorc aoe heal is only better when you need a small direct aoe heal to the group and afterward the group doesn't have to move. Otherwise the operative heal is more reliable.

 

 

The real problem between the heals is an operative has to blow 30% of their energy on it and sorcs only 16% of their force. And force > energy because of generation.

 

And this goes back to one of my main points. Sorcs resource pool is so much better than operatives.

 

Having played both healers I'll tell you why you're wrong.

 

Operatives have constant regen all the time. If they never leave their "max regen" zone they'll always have the resources to continually heal.

 

Sorc regen actually has to be managed. You have to use consumption when you get the proc. If not you run into force issues later.

 

You don't have to manage operative energy. As long as you know what energy to cast each ability at you're fine.(by the way, if you aren't using 2pc pvp and 2pc pve medic bonuses as an operative you're wrong)

 

The aoe argument you present is completely wrong. You have to be within 10m of the targeted nanotech to get its benefits, and it isn't a smart heal so there's no guarantee it'll hit the people you need it to hit. Both heals essentially require stacking.

 

 

Anyway, as I already said, operative and merc aoe healing needs buffs, or tweaks. Both classes also need more utility to compete with a sorc in pvp.

I had a conversation about this with one of my guild healer friends the other night, and this argument is akin to the "who's better range dps, MERC or SNIPER" debate. Most will tell you that MERCs are better at range AOE dmg while Snipers are better at single target range dps. This argument between SORC and MERC for healing is the same issue. The MERC healer has more instant 'fast' heals and is more specced for single target healing. The SORC healer has much better crowd healing (ie. aoe heals), but most of their heals are 'channeled' heals. In our OP groups, we have a MERC healer whose sole focus is healing our main tank and his healing is insane. Our SORC healer(s) focus on the rest of the group.

I had a conversation about this with one of my guild healer friends the other night, and this argument is akin to the "who's better range dps, MERC or SNIPER" debate. Most will tell you that MERCs are better at range AOE dmg while Snipers are better at single target range dps. This argument between SORC and MERC for healing is the same issue. The MERC healer has more instant 'fast' heals and is more specced for single target healing. The SORC healer has much better crowd healing (ie. aoe heals), but most of their heals are 'channeled' heals. In our OP groups, we have a MERC healer whose sole focus is healing our main tank and his healing is insane. Our SORC healer(s) focus on the rest of the group.

 

Qualification: I have only done a few hard mode FPs and Reg EV.

 

I think you have way oversimplified the problem, however I am going to do the same as a counter point. Tank damage from what I have seen is not that bad. As a merc Healer, I have been able to heal the tank no problem. So what you are saying is that 1 healer being able to heal 7 people while the other heals 1 means they are both fine, just have different roles. Part of the reason this is flawed is because Sorcs can single target heal too. Whereas Mercs cannot AOE heal with one spell that heals only three targets for crap and is expensive and has a cooldown.

 

Now, I am not QQing about Merc Heals, but there IS a power discrepancy and it does not just boil down to AOE vs single target.

 

IMO BW needs to either give all three healers similar utility and different roles, or they need to give similar tools to all 3.

 

I think different roles is bad, because if Sorc is the AOE healer, then to balance them out, you'd have to nerf their single target and no one would want them in flashpoints because they would not be able to heal tanks.

 

Right now sorcs have the best utility, the best AOE, and 3rd but still decent single target heals(small gap).

IAs have the 2nd best utilty (big gap), 2nd best AOE (big gap), and 2nd best single target (maybe).

Mercs have 3rd best utility(way behind sorc, arguably slightly behind IA), 3rd best AOE(way behind sorc, arguably slightly behind IA), and best single target, but not way better than IA or even Sorc.

 

Since healers are rare enough, IMO the answer is not to nerf sorcs, but to buff the other two, especially their AOE and utility.

 

In no case are things fine as is. But it is also not a case of the sky falling either. These are simply normal balance issues that will be fixed then broken in the normal cycle of an MMO.

Edited February 1, 2012 by TempestasSilva

Having fully cleared all current 16-man nightmare content (EV and KP):

 

Our guild was running with 2 Operatives, 1 Sorc, and 1 Merc. After having geared everyone out, the weakness of the Operative class became very apparent. Both Operative healers are now re-rolling, one to Sorc and one to Merc, thus we will be running 0 Operatives, 2 Sorcs, and 2 Mercs.

 

2 Sorcs should be able to keep the raid alive just fine, thus it makes more sense to take the better tank healer (Mercs) to fill up the remaining 2 healer slots rather than more Sorcs.

 

 

With that said, the Sorc AoE ability, Revivification, needs to be nerfed. It is above and beyond any other heal in the game currently. I do not want healing to be dumbed down, so I do not want every other heal buffed up to Revivification's potential. Healing should still be challenging and right now, Revivification is doing a good job of making certain scenarios trivial.

 

I do feel that Mercs are in a good place right now and each healer should be brought in-line to the Mercenary, which means Sorc nerfs and Operative buffs.

 

Last of all, there was a lot of talk in this thread about Mercenary lacking a battle rez. Battle rez shares a raid-wide cooldown, so it doesn't really matter if Mercs don't have a battle rez, unless you have only 1 Sorc and Operative and that Sorc/Op dies... that's the only scenario where the battle rez would be needed for Mercs, thus I could care less if Mercs get a battle rez or not.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Azkit

After having geared everyone out, the weakness of the Operative class became very apparent.

So how do you know operatives are terrible? I'd love to see your logs.

 

I've solo healed nightmare XRR3 and Garj, nearly solo healing nm SOA(with an off-healer dps).

 

 

With that said, the Sorc AoE ability, Revivification, needs to be nerfed. It is above and beyond any other heal in the game currently. I do not want healing to be dumbed down, so I do not want every other heal buffed up to Revivification's potential. Healing should still be challenging and right now, Revivification is doing a good job of making certain scenarios trivial.

Revivification is definitely overtuned right now, but not by much. They need to make the merc/operative aoe heals SMART and increase their target limits by 1-2 each, and all the aoe's will be fine.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Jooji

So how do you know operatives are terrible? I'd love to see your logs.

 

I've solo healed nightmare XRR3 and Garj, nearly solo healing nm SOA(with an off-healer dps).

 

 

 

Revivification is definitely overtuned right now, but not by much. They need to make the merc/operative aoe heals SMART and increase their target limits by 1-2 each, and all the aoe's will be fine.

 

Hm I dont know if the argument is that Ops are bad, I think its more that if you have a player skilled enough to do well with their Op it would be far more beneficial for the group to have that same skilled person playing a Sorc instead.

So how do you know operatives are terrible? I'd love to see your logs.

 

I've solo healed nightmare XRR3 and Garj, nearly solo healing nm SOA(with an off-healer dps).

 

The healers got together and we compared our numbers. We might not have logs, but we still have scrolling text and eyes with which to read them before the text disappears. We had discussions about what we could do to better improve our healing team. We considered things like healing output, heat/energy management, encounter design, utility, and what role each healer can fulfill. In the end, our conclusions led both Operatives to decide to re-roll.

 

Hm I dont know if the argument is that Ops are bad, I think its more that if you have a player skilled enough to do well with their Op it would be far more beneficial for the group to have that same skilled person playing a Sorc instead.

 

Exactly. Operatives might still be 'viable', but they are definitely not equal. I'm not sure why BioWare made 8-man easier than 16-man, but they did. There actually are healing intensive encounters in 16-man operations and at these points we want the best healer team that we can have. As such, the Operatives re-rolled because they'd better serve the team as a Sorc or Merc.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Azkit

Hm I dont know if the argument is that Ops are bad, I think its more that if you have a player skilled enough to do well with their Op it would be far more beneficial for the group to have that same skilled person playing a Sorc instead.

 

If you remove reviv which healer is better?

While I have practically no Ops experience, overall, my favourite kind of healer is easily IA Operatives.

 

I do not know exactly why, but I've always received excellent healing from IA Operatives. A nice steady flow with no too big ups and downs.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Luckmann

While I have practically no Ops experience, overall, my favourite kind of healer is easily IA Operatives.

 

I do not know exactly why, but I've always received excellent healing from IA Operatives. A nice steady flow with no too big ups and downs.

 

 

That's exactly what we are, a nice steady stream of healing - sadly anyone can do that though - the test comes when the **** hits the fan, sadly at this point we are just sub par....

in pvp, i like the op better. invisibilty at times is quite nice, plus being able to move and run around is quite amazing as well.

Coming from a PvP standpoint since I haven't healed in an OP group yet (tend to DPS in those) I really don't feel that merc healing is useless. Yes, when it comes out to pure numbers I can't keep up with a sorc, but that hasn't stopped me from solo healing groups of people alive in warzones. Managing my heat and which heals I use and when i use them, I can pretty much spam heal all match long and not have a problem. If you want to look at the numbers only that are at the end of the match (which can be/aren't important, depending on multiple things) then yes, I know some sorcs that'll blow me away in terms of numbers. But if a sorc pulls 450k healing and I only pull 300-325k the entire match, but we're both able to do what's needed to win, then that's all that matters.

 

It just comes down to how you play. It's just like anything else with whatever class you play. If you don't know how to play it, both offensive and defensively, then it won't matter who or what you are, you won't perform. Please refer to all the NERF NERF NERF/DERP DERP DERP posts if you don't believe me.

Coming both from someone who has healed as a Commando healer, and does HM/Nightmare ops regularly with one (i DPS during ops), Merc/Mando heals are in a good place.

 

As it has been noted, Sages/Sorcs have much better AOE. They lack heavily, however, in tank heals. Our Commando focuses on the tank and the melee with his kolto bomb, plus he has a nice external CD in the form of Supercharge cells to help the tank survive burst outside of his own CD's. The sage covers the rest of the raid. Works really well.

 

I don't have much experience with Sawbones/Operative healers, so I will not comment on that.

 

TLDR; Merc/Commando healers are fine.

 

Cheers,

Played commando as healing all the way to 50 and hit battlemaster, completed all raids on normal and hard.

 

Single target healing is fine. The aoe heal is what is lacking as right now its best use is to be used only on grp members getting aoehealed by a sage/inquis. For thoughts on change it either needs to hit 5 ppl, or recieve something like a 25-35% bonus in healing increase put on a 15sec cd, BUT when get 30 charges and use supercharge it finishes the cooldown so it can be potentially used 2x back to back. I like the 2nd idea a little more as it requires a bit more thinking and less reliance on someone else healing those same ppl.

 

Secondly someone earlier mentioned the 2min cd for 25% more armor and when specced you cant be interrupted. This cannot be made stronger as enough people complain about this, though ive never found it uesful in pvp unless u know you are going to be taking a butt load of damage and are still about 80% hp. However if something was to be applied to it perhaps either change the pvp set bonus or the talent to make you immune to stuns for 3-4 seconds. As of right now dps in pvp are not even making use of interrupts for the most part and just relying on stun stun stun. Which unfortunately there is no penalty for over stunning a target after they have reached a full resolve bar. Right now its one of my least used skills for it being lackluster even more than the ability to have an ability cost zero ammo as that skill as hitting both those button after gcd cause it to be slower than just casting a heal.