This is embarrassing…

 

I play a kinetic shadow tank. My gear is full Rakata + Black Hole. I usually run with a scoundrel healer who is similarly geared. We run Lost Island HM fairly frequently, and for the last several runs, it has been a one-shot all the way through. The final boss (Lorrick), who is *brutally* hard on our Guardian tank, never seems to cause any issues for my level of mitigation. In the category of other fights, I regularly main tank both nightmare modes without a problem, even solo tanking the Fabricator droid for an extended period of time with 10 stacks of the armor debuff.

 

Here's the problem: I keep dying on the very first mini-boss in Lost Island HM (you know, the thing with the spitters and the yellow stupid circles). I feel so silly, because this boss is a joke. We've never outright failed to down him, nor have I ever seen any other tank have issues on this fight. However, despite absolutely perfect execution on the part of the healer, and (as far as I can tell) perfect movement and positioning on my part, I always go down right around the time when the boss gets to 10% health. I don't have any debuffs, and I never stood in any of the yellow circles.

 

The first time this happened, I assumed I had just missed one of the yellow circles and been hit by the subsequent damage. The second time it happened, we were mystified. Now that we're on the fourth and fifth time, things are getting a bit frustrating. The healer has even tried watching the ground under my feet like a *hawk*, verifying that I'm never standing in anything (since ground effects sometimes bug). He has never seen anything that I've missed.

 

This boss doesn't hit very hard *at first*, it's just toward the end where things get really weird. It's almost as if his damage increases steadily over the course of the fight, serving as a soft enrage (he does have a hard enrage too, fyi). As tank, I don't really mind dying (it's really my job, after all), and we never have any trouble completing the fight after I go down, it's just a little annoying to have this happening every single time.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions? Combat logs can be provided if you like, I would just need to dig them out.

my thoughts would be that your dps is undergeared if your hitting the soft enrage, you know its the dps if you hit the hard enrage

my thoughts would be that your dps is undergeared if your hitting the soft enrage, you know its the dps if you hit the hard enrage

 

The DPS are all Rakata + Black Hole geared. I usually run this with DPS who put up numbers in the 1350-1400 DPS range. I've done it a few times with lower numbers (e.g. a gunnery commando, which is a spec that doesn't seem to be able to break 1250), but I'm pretty sure that's not the issue. Note that these same DPS usually have *no* trouble at all beating the LR-5 Sentinel before his soft enrage, which is extremely tight.

 

Are we sure this mini-boss even has a soft enrage? I *know* he has a hard enrage (I ran it with a couple really under-geared DPS once), and it would be really strange if he had both.

Are you killing off the small spitters that are with the miniboss? They do a fairly large amount of damage for their incredibly small amount of HP.

 

Have you parsed your combat logs to figure out where the damage is coming from?

As you know, the fight is very short and brutal. The thing bites like there is no tomorrow, so the best way deal with it is to boost your defense anyway you can, use all the cooldowns and relics you have. There is nothing more you can do.

 

As a juggernaut tank, I might die too after my saber ward has worn off and if too many bites land too close together.

Are you killing off the small spitters that are with the miniboss? They do a fairly large amount of damage for their incredibly small amount of HP.

 

Yep, we always focus those down first.

 

Have you parsed your combat logs to figure out where the damage is coming from?

 

I have looked at them, but not closely enough to say for sure. Nothing looked out of the ordinary. I'll post one of my logs here later tonight.

To be frank - it's been quite a while since I've had anyone die on this fight; my groups are generally Columi/Rakata mixes with the occasional bits of Black Hole mixed in. I'm exclusively a Sage healer.

 

The last time I remember losing a tank on this fight, it was because he didn't move out of a circle and the cumulative damage was insane. Make no mistake, though, this boss hits insanely hard. I always have the tanks using defensive cooldowns, and I'm healing heavily throughout the fight. Assuming your gear is properly itemised and you're using cooldowns appropriately, the only real answer is that your healer simply isn't putting out enough HPS.

 

Although, as I said in the LI thread, as a Sage I have the advantage of a large resource pool to abuse in a short fight.

I was having the same exact problem when I started running LI HM. For some reasons we would always down the boss but I would always lose my tank right there at the end (Commando Healer). I thought there for a while that I was just effin up and not fullfilling my role as a healer. But the past three times Ive played LI HM I havent lost a tank yet (knock on wood). To keep them from dying I would just ask them to tell me when the boss is down around 20% so then I could focus more on healing the tank than the others (which dont take much damage anyways). Just what Ive found that helps me

Kill the adds first asap. This mini-boss does hit the tank hard but as long as the others are moving out of the yellow circles the healer can safely concentrate on putting some heavy heals on you, use defensive cooldowns if you can as well.

The last time I remember losing a tank on this fight, it was because he didn't move out of a circle and the cumulative damage was insane. Make no mistake, though, this boss hits insanely hard. I always have the tanks using defensive cooldowns, and I'm healing heavily throughout the fight. Assuming your gear is properly itemised and you're using cooldowns appropriately, the only real answer is that your healer simply isn't putting out enough HPS.

 

The scoundrel's HPS on that fight is in excess of 1300 with less than 5% overheal. The damage profile right before the end generally looks something like this (separated by GCD):

 

My HP: 100%

---

My HP: 40%

---

My HP: 40%

---

(heal)

My HP: 90%

---

My HP 40%

---

My HP 0%

 

So, given how quickly he pops me back up (basically, just the cast time of Underworld Medicine), I don't think healing is as much an issue as just the rate of damage toward the end. I have attempted to resolve this problem with cooldowns, and while they certainly help, they aren't quite sufficient. The last few times I've actually died nearly simultaneously with the boss, due to cooldown timeout right at the very end.

 

As for my gear, I heartily agree that is a good thing to check. I've been min-maxing fairly seriously of late, but it never hurts to get a second pair of eyes: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/6d0035cb-8938-4f38-8073-e75392f0b410 (note: any armor piece listed as "Black Hole" is actually Black Hole mods in a Rakata/Columi shell, so I do still have my 4 piece bonus)

 

Although, as I said in the LI thread, as a Sage I have the advantage of a large resource pool to abuse in a short fight.

 

Quoted for truth. Sages have a similar advantage in the Sav-Rak fight, later on. Though, they have a bit of a *disadvantage* in Lorrick if the tank's tech cooldowns are down. With that said, the only time I've ever wiped repeatedly on this mini-boss was in a group with another guild and a poorly played sage healer, so it's not just a straight win for sage healers.

Edited May 29, 2012 by KeyboardNinja

The scoundrel's HPS on that fight is in excess of 1300 with less than 5% overheal. The damage profile right before the end generally looks something like this (separated by GCD):

I realise I don't need to condescend you with anything too obvious (stating the obvious does help me think through things though, so bear with me), but I've never put much stock in HPS figures, since they don't really tell much about how the healer's output matched up against incoming damage spikes during the fight.

 

I went and dug up a combat log for the last time I did this fight, which you can find here: http://www.torparse.com/a/43450/2 If you check "Heals Given", you can note a few things. First, my HPS for the overall fight was only about 1k. There's a few reasons for that:

 

1. I DPSed an add at the start

2. Force Armor isn't counted. I pre-bubbled the tank and cast it once during the fight, so you could guesstimate about 1150+ HPS if it were.

3. I had a Guardian tank for this run, and their survival cooldowns are undeniably better than the other two tanking ACs. The tank popped his early in the fight, and you can see that my healing output ramps up towards the end as a result.

 

As for my gear, I heartily agree that is a good thing to check. I've been min-maxing fairly seriously of late, but it never hurts to get a second pair of eyes: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/6d0035cb-8938-4f38-8073-e75392f0b410

My first thought is way too much shield chance, way too little absorb. At your current stat amounts and with that 2-piece bonus, you'd want around 300 shield rating, 375 defence, and 450 absorb. Refer to this graph (the pale curves are calculated for the set bonus). This spreadsheet might also be helpful.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Aurojiin

The miniboss has a 'bite' move that hits for over 6k, and is furiously fast. If your tank is a Sith Assassin/Jedi Shadow, the damage can be avoided by using force shroud. It is counted as tech damage and cannot be shielded.

The miniboss has a 'bite' move... It is counted as tech damage

Sometimes I really wonder.

My first thought is way too much shield chance, way too little absorb. At your current stat amounts and with that 2-piece bonus, you'd want around 300 shield rating, 375 defence, and 450 absorb. Refer to this graph (the pale curves are calculated for the set bonus). This spreadsheet might also be helpful.

 

It *is* too much shield chance. Unfortunately, the way enhancements are itemized, I can't do anything about that right now. It was either End/Shld/Def or End/Acc/Def. For obvious reasons, I picked the shield enhancements. :-)

 

Given that the bite is tech damage, I'm guessing that's the issue I have with this fight that other tanks don't. My armor rating is quite a bit less than a guardian or vanguard, and so tech damage is always going to be a problem unless I use Resilience/Force Shroud.

Edited May 30, 2012 by KeyboardNinja

It *is* too much shield chance. Unfortunately, the way enhancements are itemized, I can't do anything about that right now. It was either End/Shld/Def or End/Acc/Def. For obvious reasons, I picked the shield enhancements. :-)

Farm up some of these.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Aurojiin

My character is very similar to yours in gear, clas and spec. Though, I usually run with a sage healer. It is funny how much damage this boss does considering my insane avoidance scores. My guess is that most of his damage is internal.

 

Occassionally this boss does insane damage. Here are some of the things I noticed:

 

He has two special attacks: a spit that hits me for 6500 and a bite that hits for 5000.

 

I have had the most success staying mobile while tanking him. I back up in a wide circle avoiding the yellow reticles. You need to be extremely carefull though because if you range him too much he will spit on you multiple times in a very short window. This can look like you were one-shotted.

 

Also, your healer must focus on you - sometimes they think they can do a little dps but that is not the case in this fight. Toward the end of the fight it seems that he will bite and spit at the same time hitting you for 11,500 each time. The healer needs to be prepared to deal with that.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Docmal

Farm up some of these.

 

:-) Implants first, as they are a more significant boost.

 

Also, your healer must focus on you - sometimes they think they can do a little dps but that is not the case in this fight. Toward the end of the fight it seems that he will bite and spit at the same time hitting you for 11,500 each time. The healer needs to be prepared to deal with that.

 

I'm pretty sure that was what was killing me. A combination of Resilience and the healer bursting out their energy pool in that last phase was enough to keep me alive on a recent clear. Still pretty annoying, but obviously beatable.