The term "rdps" was created because ranged dps is preferable in most operation/flash point situations, especially when in a pug. The reason for this is it's often easier to tank and heal when the dps aren't getting hit with AOE damage from bosses. (see LR-5 or Heavy Fabricator). This isn't to say melee classes are bad, in fact marauder assassin and powertech(and their republic counterparts) can out dps the rest, but it usually makes for a smoother run without them.

Having said that, it's a bit of a mystery to me why people have now taken to spamming general chat with "mdps LFG" etc. I appreciate your honesty, but you should know that isn't helping you find a group.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

 

Having said that, it's a bit of a mystery to me why people have now taken to spamming general chat with "mdps LFG" etc. I appreciate your honesty, but you should know that isn't helping you find a group.

 

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

Not always. In some cases a mdps is actually preferred to a rdps. Seen many times when ops are forming that they specifically look for mdps like Marauders for example in EC. Actually you can even do the first fight there Toth and Zorn with all melee if they are smart and swap targets like the tanks do regarding the fearfull debuff. I can name 3 times in the last two weeks where I posted DPS lfg NMKP or SM/HM EC and got nothing but as soon as I said mdps (mara) LFG NMKP or SM/HM EC I got an invite within seconds.

As you say now you know that some situations mpds is sought after or even preferred.

Not always. In some cases a mdps is actually preferred to a rdps. Seen many times when ops are forming that they specifically look for mdps like Marauders for example in EC. Actually you can even do the first fight there Toth and Zorn with all melee if they are smart and swap targets like the tanks do regarding the fearfull debuff. I can name 3 times in the last two weeks where I posted DPS lfg NMKP or SM/HM EC and got nothing but as soon as I said mdps (mara) LFG NMKP or SM/HM EC I got an invite within seconds.

 

As you say now you know that some situations mpds is sought after or even preferred.

You need to take marauders out of the equation. They are the only mdps class where the damage output, defensive cooldowns, and group utility (bloodthirst) outweigh the tremendous disadvantages mdps face in almost all end game contexts. If you were a dps assassin, operative, or juggernaut instead your desirability would plummet immensely.

Here's a rundown:

EV

Annhilation Droid: mdps have it mildly more difficult

Gharj: mdps have it moderately more difficult

Pylons: no real difference

Council: no real difference

Soa: mdps have it mildly more difficult due to the need to move for lightning balls, phase transitions, and having to move to target mindtraps

KP

Bonetrasher: moderately more difficult for mdps due to positioning requirements

Gharj/Sorno: significantly more difficult for mdps if they are on Jarg, irrelevant if on Sorno

Foreman Crusher: irrelevant as far as I know

Fabricator: significantly more difficult for mdps

Karagga: depending on skill of tank, mildly more difficult for mdps, or significantly more difficult

LOST ISLAND HM

LR5 Sentinel: Severely more difficult for mdps. A straight-up mechanic check for tank and all mdps to complete

Sav-Raak: intended to be more difficult for rdps, but actually is not.

Dr. Lorrick: moderately to severely more difficult for mdps depending on skill of tank

WORLD BOSS

Nightmare Pilgrim: who knows as constant griefing makes completing this world boss on super servers well nigh impossible. I'm guessing it's harder on melee dps as it fits the trend

DENOVA:

Zorn/Toth: Murderously more difficult for melee dps as it comes to Zorn (basically impossible on hardmode). As to Toth, mildly to moderately more difficult.

Tanks: Largely irrelevant so long as a healer can handle the "ground floor" duties. If they cannot, having one too many melee dps is unmanageable.

Minefield/Vorgath: mildly more difficult, but not a big deal

Kephess: depending on party makeup, significantly harder or mildly harder. If bombardier isn't getting pulled to party, or if Kephess tanking isn't perfect, melee dps has problems with positioning and/or aoe effects.

PVP I don't know why you would play a mdps that isn't a marauder/sentinel.

SUMMARY: This is a very bad state of affairs. I do not see why, given the choice, I would ever bring melee dps to anything ... well, maybe one marauder/sentinel for bloodthirst. Not only is basically all of the end game content more difficult for mdps to varying degrees, they get NOTHING to compensate for it. They aren't more survivable (in many cases, they are less survivable), they don't do more damage, they don't have more utility, nothing.

Yeah our group did NIM KP last night with only one rDPS. First time I have ever got placed on Jarg with my shadow, but it really wasn't a problem. Just have to be smart enough to get out of the fire. We even finished Jarg faster than the two way better and bettered geared mDPS players on Sorno.

As a healer I personally love mDPS. They are right there together on most boss fights, very easy to just keep above 90%. I also know they are going to take damage. rDPS is more like me, when they take a big hit it is somewhat of a surprise since usually they can get out of the AOE and don't. Only thing I hate about mDPS is that force leap. Not kidding every time I put down a big time consuming heal on a knight they leap out of range right before it finishes casting. So I have to run back into range.

Personally I would rather have smart players that pay attention and use cooldowns than worry about what class they are.

The differences in fights for mdps and rdps are not that severe if the other players in the group are competent. I have learned to stay away from groups that exclude melee dps on the basis that they usually struggle with the most simplest mechanic checks in the game.

I can understand if the game actually had some hard encounters that something would need to be done to help out melee dps, but with the majority of content being rather simple and easy, i dont see any problem with them.

TL;DR: If a healer/tank cant compensate for a mdps in their grp they will most likely fail/struggle with something else in the instance.

The differences in fights for mdps and rdps are not that severe if the other players in the group are competent. I have learned to stay away from groups that exclude melee dps on the basis that they usually struggle with the most simplest mechanic checks in the game.

 

I can understand if the game actually had some hard encounters that something would need to be done to help out melee dps, but with the majority of content being rather simple and easy, i dont see any problem with them.

 

TL;DR: If a healer/tank cant compensate for a mdps in their grp they will most likely fail/struggle with something else in the instance.

What does any of that have to do with the point at hand? Either content "X" is harder for mdps, it is easier, or it is the same. The skill of the group in regards to mechanics, or the "majority of the content" being "simple and easy" has zero bearing on that analysis.

Gharj/Sorno: significantly more difficult for mdps if they are on Jarg, irrelevant if on Sorno

I pretty much disagree with you on everyone of your list except LR5 Sentinel and this is from a sawbones point of view not a shadow. Oh and on Firebrand and Stormcaller the healer should be kiting the lightning on anything above SM EC and on SM it doesn't really matter. Healer can do some DPS and Enrage isn't that big a deal (provided the group is a decent group).

Now I will not disagree that mDPS may make you slightly change your normal way of doing an Ops if you usually do it a certain way with rDPS, but that does not mean it is harder, just different. There are some very good mDPS players and there are some very good rDPS, limiting your group to one or the other just seems silly to me.

What does any of that have to do with the point at hand? Either content "X" is harder for mdps, it is easier, or it is the same. The skill of the group in regards to mechanics, or the "majority of the content" being "simple and easy" has zero bearing on that analysis.

The skill of the group in regards to mechanics play a major role in how "hard or easy" say content is for a mdps.

Let take a look at the droid in LI, the tank fails to understand positioning and how to kite the mob around the metal square in the center, the fight becomes far harder, and requires a much more messier kiting around the room.

Look at Lorrick, if the tank positions him in just a single spot, and doesnt allow themselves enough room to kite him away from the green circles, you will end up in a situation where the mdps wont be able to dps, or will have to take avoidable damage.

On a side note if the majority of the content is simple and easy, it really doesnt matter if a Mdps, takes 5% more damage then a rdps, or require an additional cure that a rdps wouldnt of needed...Yes it may be more taxxing, but when other things are not taxxing at all, it doesnt matter.

As a healer, i prefer rdps to mdps only because of the extra damage i have to heal when we bring a mdps to a fight. On Zorn and Toth for exemple, if u have melee(s) on Toth, they take his aoe damage and if they manage to move out of it, we lose dps while they move. Or the first boss in LI HM, the tank has to move a lot more when mdps are present. Also, rdps can usually swap target faster then mdps. There is plenty of other exemple where i would prefer a rdps to a mdps.

But in the end, ive done EC HM with a few mdps, ive done LI HM with 2 mdps... it is no doubt still possible, but in my opinion having mdps does makes some fights harder. I dont think anyone can argue with that.

I am not a pro dps, since i mostly tank or heal, but i think it take more skill to be a good mdps vs being a good rdps (high dmg output with low dmg received).

Actually I would rather see the spam mdps LFG than some of the stuff about American political I see there. If have to read spam at least this is about the game.

But I get your point. Don't worry I never do it. I will run HM FP PUGs with group finder, but I have never spammed lfg in main chat, guild and alliance chat sometimes but not general.

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Zorn/Toth: Murderously more difficult for melee dps as it comes to Zorn (basically impossible on hardmode). As to Toth, mildly to moderately more difficult.

 

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I understand most of the points you're making, but you're wildly exaggerating the problems melee dps face. "basically impossible on hard mode"?

My guild is melee dps heavy and we run all the content in the game. Perhaps I've had the good luck to only be grouped with players who really know their class well, but its silly to say things like "basically impossible" when HM EC can be cleared by a melee-heavy group like ours.

The term "rdps" was created because ranged dps is preferable in most operation/flash point situations, especially when in a pug. The reason for this is it's often easier to tank and heal when the dps aren't getting hit with AOE damage from bosses. (see LR-5 or Heavy Fabricator). This isn't to say melee classes are bad, in fact marauder assassin and powertech(and their republic counterparts) can out dps the rest, but it usually makes for a smoother run without them.

 

Having said that, it's a bit of a mystery to me why people have now taken to spamming general chat with "mdps LFG" etc. I appreciate your honesty, but you should know that isn't helping you find a group.

 

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

Funny you title this PSA, because thats just what they're doing. Letting you know that they are a Melee DPS. I'd rather you know I'm melee before you invite me, than figure it out after and then you decide to kick me. . .or rag on me because im not rangeed.

IMO most of the time you see rDPS is because you need a rDPS. If you already have 3 melee DPS for KP you don't want a 4th or you're screwed for the Fabricator. Sometimes people just want an easy (lol) run through LI and it is noticeably easier with ranged DPS.

There are NO situations I have come across where melee DPS (and I mean melee and not Mara/Sent) are easier than ranged.

Ranged advantages:

- Faster target switching

- Less damage taken from AoE

- Able to execute mechanics (ie activate panels in Bulwark) without losing much DPS uptime

Melee advantages:

- Fewer cast/channeled abilities means greater DPS during high movement phases

Fights that are noticeably easier with ranged DPS:

- Lorrick

- LR-5

- Turret in Kaon

- Jarg

- Fabricator

- Gharj

- Toth & Zorn

- Bulwark (pre 1.3 anyway, increased enrage timer pretty much negates the difference)

- Trandoshan miniboss in FE

- Jindo

- Boss with reflect shield in BoI (Can't remember his name)

I am not saying that you can't clear all content in the game with all melee DPS. But many fights require significantly different strategies or more coordination when using melee heavy groups and it often puts more stress on the healer(s). Arguably having the DPS all near the tank makes Sage healers life easier but ranged can stand close enough to benefit so this is not a melee advantage.

Why is it considered harder to dps the fabricator as mdps? I don't have any problem doing it and I have much faster uptime with my highend damage abilities because of focus generation.

I would also like to know what is so hard on Jarg. I'm sorry I read everything that said don't do it, but Wednesday night in my first NIM KP, I got stuck on Jarg because we had too much mDPS. I just knew this spelled wipe because everything I read said it was extremely difficult. However, if you don't count a /stuck wipe because a healer and tank DC, we one shotted it. Jarg even died first. This was with 2 really great DPS players on Sorno and a great rDPS on Jarg and me a very average mDPS player. All I did on the fire is back up and use Project and Force Breach. Then moved forward and continued my rotation. So I don't consider it difficult at all.

I thought about this last night. I do spam BH and Ilum during dailies at times on my Sawbones with "squishy healer lfg for CtS or Darkness". Normally no one answers and I just go solo them, but a few times I got an invite and the group was a little shocked to see a fully modified BH in Rakata shells with augments Healer show up.

Fabricator is harder with all melee DPS because your puzzle solvers can't contribute DPS on the boss.

Jarg is harder with melee DPS because flame sweep hits like a freight train.

Also, please remember this is about MELEE DPS not MARAUDER DPS. You need to consider Shadows, Scoundrels, Guardians and Vanguards. Individual classes have benefits but melee as a whole does not.

Again, I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was harder. There have been 4 melee DPS clears of HM EC. It requires much more coordination but its doable. However, LFG is usually for PUGs who don't HAVE that level of coordination, hence why rDPS is preferred.

Fabricator is harder with all melee DPS because your puzzle solvers can't contribute DPS on the boss.

Usually have a healer and 1 dps dedicated to doing the buttons, while the other 3 dps are on the bottom with 100% uptime. Carnage marauders and concealment operatives are the best dps to use to click buttons due to the faster in-combat run speed.

Sorry for derailing the original topic, but half of the crap that is being said is just bad information being spread about.

Usually have a healer and 1 dps dedicated to doing the buttons, while the other 3 dps are on the bottom with 100% uptime. Carnage marauders and concealment operatives are the best dps to use to click buttons due to the faster in-combat run speed.

 

Sorry for derailing the original topic, but half of the crap that is being said is just bad information being spread about.

If you're using 2 players on the puzzle its easier if they both have a short CD knockback. Sage/Commando being my preferences since they can heal/dps from up top as well. Having 3 up top (2 ranged and a healer) is noticably faster. Fabricator should be getting burned again before he gets more than 3 or 4 armour stacks and the DPS can still contribute.

But the point is that having a melee up top means they aren't dpsing the boss at all. Hence, having ranged is an advantage. Yes it can be done with all melee. Yes it is noticeably easier with ranged. That is the point, ranged is always easier than melee and the easier/less involved strategies for LI, EC, KP rely on having rDPS specifically.

Yes some melee CLASSES are better than some ranged CLASSES. But that does not make melee preferable over (or even as easy as) ranged.

The differences in fights for mdps and rdps are not that severe if the other players in the group are competent.

^ This!

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We had to switch some people around on Wednesday for HM EC, and as a result we had 4 melee dps (oh no!). We did wipe twice on Zorn and Toth, which we normally always one-shot. The only reason it took that long was because of the healers being unaccustomed to the 4 melee dps, and the two melee dps on Zorn being unaccustomed to being on zorn and getting fearful (me being one of them, I switched to dps, my offspec, to dps instead of normally tanking).

After having some practice, I'm certain we could one-shot Zorn and Toth with all melee dps next time. We just needed some practice.

We had more dps that normal it seemed (noticed for certain as we were DPSing the walker on Kephess), and the rest of the raid after Zorn and Toth was easy.

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For Lost Island, sure the first boss might be a bit more hectic with melee dps, but that's part of the fun. I always run HM LI with 2 melee dps, and we always one shot everything. It's not overly difficult with good players.

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I think that while melee dps may be harder to run with than ranged dps, once your melee dpsers know their classes well and know what to expect, and the healers know what to expect damage-wise, you'll be putting out more dps than with ranged dps, will run into no problems (as you do with decent ranged dps most of the time), and will have more mobile dps that perform better than ranged dps in fights where mobility is king.

Fabricator is harder with all melee DPS because your puzzle solvers can't contribute DPS on the boss.

 

...

As ranged, I usually run the puzzle up top and don't contribute to dps until the last burn below 20%. We used to have one of the tanks do it, but we found it easier to do the tank swap rather than forcing the healers to deal with too many stacks of armor debuff.

So a melee dps could do exactly the same thing as I do, and join the fight after the last burn.

I have to agree with the OP. Honestly, i think melee dps have some of the highest dps output by far. Especially mara's and ive seen 2-3 amazing jugg dps, assassins/operatives here and there but nothing incredible, and maybe 1 PT. But thats the trade off though, you cant have your cake and eat it too. They have a much higher chance of taking aoe damage (hence why i think the BH/Camp armorings sometimes have more end than mainstat for them).

but really it all comes down to how well that person is with their mdps. If the mdps is smart and has the fights down, theyre golden. But like every class and role, some people are just scrubs and are terrible with their toons. rdps is some insurance against that. That being said, I usually tank and I f'ing hate tanking LR5 Droid in LI HM with 1 or 2 mdps. Ive done it more than a few times successfully but it really boils down to them and the healer being on point (especially with helping me interrupt incinerate when moving him around since he roots for a second) which is sometimes not the case.

Anyways, yeah they prolly shouldnt be spamming mdps in chat unless they're a mara and add that in with it since people can be dumb.

That being said, I usually tank and I f'ing hate tanking LR5 Droid in LI HM with 1 or 2 mdps. Ive done it more than a few times successfully but it really boils down to them and the healer being on point (especially with helping me interrupt incinerate when moving him around since he roots for a second) which is sometimes not the case.

So it's melee fault that you use a bad strat, that makes the content harder then what it needs to be?