These are very slight buffs/nerfs (with exception of carnage). While I appreciate the cautious approach, I can already tell that in skilled hands say a Merc, Sniper, or Fury Mara will be a much more dangerous spec then DPS PTs or Juggs, or Sins for that matter after these tweaks. - At least in the PvP meta.

-While the two staple Merc Dcds have been toned down, they are still two of the five best DCds in the game probably in my opinion. + mercs have e-net which and multiple electro net stacking from multiple mercs will still wreck havoc on many classes - that would be my only suggestion when it comes to mercs: to at least make the electro net apply an immunity buff from further electro-nets for say 40 sec to elliminate this very unbalancing phenomenon in situations when multiple mercs are on the opposing team chain e-net you to death - especially given that many classes' DCDs are getting "toned down". Tha'ts 2/5 of the best DCDs + Electronet - so yeah really powerful class.

-Snipers will retain also some of the strongest DCDs

-Ruthless aggressor on a cc immune Fury Mara as is currently constructed may be a tad too powerful. But this has more to do with Fury now and less with the other two mara specs.

-PT + Jugg dps (in PvP): rip

-Carnage Mara: rip

-Sin Dps/ Pyro dps in PvP: meh

-LIghtning: lullol wat???? *facepalm* - fine fine this will be the class for the extreme kiting connoisseurs and masochists

-Madness: nice little adjustments thank you

 

Basic summery: if there is one further change I would recommend making is to look in electro-net and limit how soon multiple e-nets can be chained on a target.

 

yeah and the carnage adjustment is very questionable.

Why are you removing stun damage reduction from some of the weakest DPS classes in the game? And it is funny how people actually think these Mercenary/Commando changes matter, don't worry they will still be stupidly good.

 

I don't give a **** about AOE damage reduction in PVP, it is a l2p issue. On the other hand, the 30% stun reduction is a must for each class, by nerfing DPS defense you make the most irritating game mechanism (stunlock) even worse. At this point I wonder how much time the combat team spends playing PVP.

While it's nice to see dps Sorcs get some defensive love, though it doesn't make up for the constant nerfs, I feel this isn't the best way to do it. Problem is, both Resurgence and Static Barrier are on-the-GCD, meaning we have to stop dps'ing to use them. Not really a big deal in PvP, but far from ideal in PvE.

 

On madness I think the resurgence buff is actually better as it is lower cooldown than the other abilities - and if any defensive tweak is needed it is only for PvP anyways not PvE with that spec. single target DPS output well yeah - that could use some love but numbers# on internal metrics are probably getting inflated on this spec because of all the fluff damage it puts out.

 

the lightning adjustment is very clunky that I agree - they need to get that buff on an off-the gcd ability at the very least. And the overall defensive buff is probably too slight for their squishiness compared to the even after these adjustments stronger DCDs of Mercs and Snipers.

Mercenary

• Trauma Regulators now heals for 4% per stack instead of 5% and stacks 10 times instead of 15
  
• The heal from Kolto Overload given by Kolto Surge can only heal the Mercenary up to 60% of their maximum health instead of 70%
  
• Trauma Regulators is a now a Heroic utility and Kolto Surge is now a Legendary utility
  

DevNotes: The Mercenary’s defensive options were too good, so we reduced the effectiveness of Trauma Regulators and Kolto Surge.

--

 

I'm just going to facepalm at the relocation of the utilities.

 

You actually had it right with placements, unlike 4.0. Now you've decided instead of simply adjusting the utilities to address the player concerns, you've also decided to mess around with the placements.

 

I'm done with this game.

I'm just going to facepalm at the relocation of the utilities.

 

You actually had it right with placements, unlike 4.0. Now you've decided instead of simply adjusting the utilities to address the player concerns, you've also decided to mess around with the placements.

 

I'm done with this game.

 

I claim ignorance on this... how does swapping the two utilities means anything. I don't get the idea behind it, since you can still get both dcds either way.

Edited October 28, 2017 by DenariusJay

Ok, fair enough, you win.

 

The AoE damage utilities should also include the Stun DR(not a big change from technical side).

 

Concerning Combat, I don't know how their way can be made compliant with what you want. The best you'll get is 3 stacks of Precision. And it's reality, sorry. They want to change it and they can come out to meet you and hear your problems and address them, but only so far.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Cuiwe

 

Concerning Combat, I don't know how their way can be made compliant with what you want. The best you'll get is 3 stacks of Precision. And it's reality, sorry. They want to change it and they can come out to meet you and hear your problems and address them, but only so far.

 

Their reasoning for this change though (high latency) doesn't qualify as legit.

If that is the case then alacrity should be removed from the game because low ping benefits far more than high.

I think this is the first time in mmo history that a game company nerfs skill.

The fact that the CBG (combat balance guy, cause it's only one guy that deals with balance issues) doesn't know that you can use 3 abilities in the ferocity window without clipping just adds salt to the wound.

Edited October 28, 2017 by giorgo

Their reasoning for this change though (high latency) doesn't qualify as legit.

If that is the case then alacrity should be removed from the game because low ping benefits far more than high.

I think this is the first time in mmo history that a game company nerfs skill.

The fact that the CBG (combat balance guy, cause it's only one guy that deals with balance issues) doesn't know that you can use 3 abilities in the ferocity window without clipping just adds salt to the wound.

 

Still, without completely scrapping their concept, the most you are getting is 3 or 4 stacks.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Cuiwe

Mercenary

• The heal from Kolto Overload given by Kolto Surge can only heal the Mercenary up to 60% of their maximum health instead of 70%
  
• Trauma Regulators is a now a Heroic utility and Kolto Surge is now a Legendary utility
  

DevNotes: The Mercenary’s defensive options were too good, so we reduced the effectiveness of Trauma Regulators and Kolto Surge.

 

Powertech

• In addition to its other effects, the Hitman utility now reduces the damage taken from area of effect attacks by 30% for the Pyrotech and Advanced Prototype disciplines, and reduces the damage taken while stunned by 30% for the Shield Tech discipline

 

DevNotes: We felt that Pyrotech Powertechs lacked the same defensive effectiveness as Advanced Prototype Powertechs, so we moved the protection against area of effect attacks from the Advanced Prototype discipline to a utility available for both disciplines. To fill the void, we gave Advanced Prototype the Prototype Armor passive, a new ability that replaces Stabilized Armor. Finally, we gave Shield Techs that take the Hitman utility some protection against damage while stunned.

 

--

Assassin

• The Formless Phantom utility has been redesigned and now reduces damage taken from area of effect attacks by 30% for the Deception and Hatred disciplines and reduces damage taken while stunned by 30% for the Darkness discipline
  

 

DevNotes: We felt that Hatred wasn’t as effective on defense as Deception, so we altered Entropic Field to remove the protection against area of effect attacks and added that effect to the Formless Phantom utility available to both disciplines, and made it so the damage protection while stunned is only available to the Darkness discipline.

Additionally, Deathmark stacks were getting consumed by other Sith Inquisitor players’ periodic effects, so we redesigned it to only be consumed by the caster’s own periodic damage.

--

 

 

First of all, congrats on the quick answer, these aren't late at all. Improvement over here

 

However, there are some concern about the utility you've posted.

 

I would like to have the opinion of the class balance team regarding "Formless Phantom" and "Hitman", more specifically regarding the 30% DR when stunned and why make this a tank-only ability. These ability were very important for these class due to the fact that they are easy to kill on a simple cc, in fact removing this ability for dps is a huge nerf to TTK in PvP which wasn't needed for assassin/powertech/Juggernaut. I would like to know why the balance team judged "correct" to do that, especially since they let a 60% heal to mercenary, who still have the complete version of this utility (30% aoe reduction, 30% damage reduction while stunned).

 

Another thing to note for Marauders utility :

A slight tuning to "Ruthless Aggressor" wouldn't hurt, currently this ability increase way too much the TTK for a standard marauder in PvP, lowering the Force/Tech resistance from 75% to 50% seems more than fair.

 

Regards,

Edited October 28, 2017 by supertimtaf

Their reasoning for this change though (high latency) doesn't qualify as legit.

If that is the case then alacrity should be removed from the game because low ping benefits far more than high.

I think this is the first time in mmo history that a game company nerfs skill.

The fact that the CBG (combat balance guy, cause it's only one guy that deals with balance issues) doesn't know that you can use 3 abilities in the ferocity window without clipping just adds salt to the wound.

 

The problem is mainly that in this game, due to the horrible optimization, you cannot be certain to do the clipping properly even if you're a good player. If the ping or computer doesn't follow then you're screwed. I think this nerf is more about bad optimisation of this game.

Still, I'll agree about the fact that Berserk could give you an extra stack of Ferocity, due to the fact that it made possible to squeeze 3 ability at least before (without clipping).

Edited October 28, 2017 by supertimtaf

Still, without completely scrapping their concept, the most you are getting is 3 or 4 stacks.

 

Although not optimal as I prefer live version, 3 stacks would be alright.

That way it would be impossible to clip a fourth ability in it. Additionally,ataru hits won't benefit from ferocity anymore, so we are looking at a nerf for all intents and purposes.

Dps would be normalized and it would be on target.

Edit: Ravage must be included in the abilities that benefit from ferocity.

Edited October 28, 2017 by giorgo

The problem is mainly that in this game, due to the horrible optimization, you cannot be certain to do the clipping properly even if you're a good player. If the ping or computer doesn't follow then you're screwed. I think this nerf is more about bad optimisation of this game.

Still, I'll agree about the fact that Berserk could give you an extra stack of Ferocity, due to the fact that it made possible to squeeze 3 ability at least before (without clipping).

 

You can use 3 abilities in the window without berserk, without clipping. That's the big issue here.

Finally a decrease of the CDs of the commando, LoL for the Bolstrom you could have ironed the cost in energy 16 cells ... But not a distant one who uses his lowest attack it is normal for you.

Although not optimal as I prefer live version, 3 stacks would be alright.

That way it would be impossible to clip a fourth ability in it. Additionally,ataru hits won't benefit from ferocity anymore, so we are looking at a nerf for all intents and purposes.

Dps would be normalized and it would be on target.

Edit: Ravage must be included in the abilities that benefit from ferocity.

 

Even if they did everything I said(3 stacks, AF not draining stacks, yet still benefitting from Precision), it'd still change the way Discipline is played by a lot. I like that, some don't. The only important thing is for them not to nerf it into the ground. We don't need another Plasmatech lol.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Cuiwe

You know the marriage is over when you truly... truly just don't care anymore.

 

As sad as it sounds, ^^this. Unfortunately exactly my sentiment, too.

 

Why do the devs hate this game so much and want to drive everyone away? Did Keith's dad say his was going to go out and buy the game and never come back so now Keith blames the game for his dad leaving and want to ruin it?

 

Not cool to make fun of Keith's dad. It's inappropriate and uncalled for, no matter how angry you are.

 

Muscommunication?

 

This is acceptable humor and actually very witty.

Not to mention that Fury now will have more burst than carnage.With the recent buff to it it will also have more substained so may i politely ask what is the role that carnage will fill now???

 

they are preping to give us stealth and tank defensives in carnage in 6.0

#truestory

 

rip carnage

Sentinel

Combat

• Precision is now stack-based with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds, affecting Clashing Blast, Lance, Dispatch, and Blade Rush, and consuming a stack each time they are used
  

DevNotes: We noticed a disparity between damage output on the Combat discipline from players that could successfully “clip” a Dispatch in a Precision window and those who couldn’t, due to factors outside of their control like server latency. Clipping lead to being able to use 3 abilities affected by Precision during the original 3 second window instead of 2. To remedy this, we changed Precision to be stack based, with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds. Additionally, Precision now only affects certain abilities, making it possible for players to use a less optimal ability during the window without sacrificing a stack of Precision.

 

Although this will look like a DPS loss, Combat’s target DPS has always been calculated without “clipping” in mind, so this change should effectively normalize Combat’s DPS to our target.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Eric, can you talk with the team about this change please? This doesn't just look like a DPS loss, it is, for all Combat players. Not just those who clip. Blade Barrage isn't a less optimal skill, it's always used under Precision and yet isn't included in the new Precision stacks. Ataru Form Strikes are also left out of the Precision window, which is a DPS loss, especially when Blade Rush is used during the Precision window. There's no reason whatsoever to leave those two things out. Cyclone Slash being left off also hurts, especially since it's given a buff to cost less Focus when using Zen.

 

Moreso than that, unless there's a utility change to add an extra stack to Precision in some way (or perhaps Zen could do that, but it's not listed here), you've effectively reduced the number of attacks Precision can affect for all players since with Zen, getting 3 attacks in a Precision window doesn't require clipping at all and is fairly easy to do. So that is a straight up DPS loss for most Combat players.

 

I understand the desire to eliminate clipping. If it's not intended and it's affecting the DPS targets for the class, alright. That's fair enough. I can live with that. This goes beyond eliminating clipping, though, and straight up kills part of the class by significantly diminishing its bread-and-butter buff. It removes Zen's interaction with Precision (unless Zen gives it an extra stack or something, again, not shown here so I'm assuming it doesn't) and reduces the amount of attacks possible within Precision for all Combat players, especially with the current effectiveness of Alacrity.

 

If I may, Eric, please pass this suggestion to the team for a potential compromise: Make Zen add 1 additional stack to Precision (so, back to 3 abilities when using Zen, as is currently possible without clipping). Add Blade Barrage and Cyclone Slash as abilities that use up stacks and gain the benefits, as is currently the case. Make Ataru Form Strikes gain the benefits of Precision without using stacks, but either lower Precision's new duration a bit to prevent abuse on that (which would likely be a DPS loss anyway but I imagine it's still something that would need to be kept in mind) or make it a buff that applies when Precision is activated that has a shorter duration more similar to Precision's old duration.

 

I tried to be reasonable with these suggestions, because I seriously don't want to see this change go live in its current state. It would severely damage Combat in a way that isn't at all necessary if clipping can be removed without doing so. I think all of the suggestions would be doable in the current system and would effectively achieve the goals of this change without nerfing Combat overall due to the various oversights I listed above.

 

Thank you.

Edited October 28, 2017 by The-Kaitou-Kid

Eric, can you talk with the team about this change please? This doesn't just look like a DPS loss, it is, for all Combat players. Not just those who clip. Blade Barrage isn't a less optimal skill, it's always used under Precision and yet isn't included in the new Precision stacks. Ataru Form Strikes are also left out of the Precision window, which is a DPS loss, especially when Blade Rush is used during the Precision window. There's no reason whatsoever to leave those two things out. Cyclone Slash being left off also hurts, especially since it's given a buff to cost less Focus when using Zen.

Thank you.

So the reason Blade Barrage isn't affected is because if you only have two stacks every Precision window, Blade Barrage isn't optimal. Lance and Crackling Blast in one, Dispatch and Crackling Blast in the other seems the way to go. Now leaving out Cyclone Slash seems odd to me, that's quite a hit to AoE.

That said, if the decide to give an extra stack with Zen (which they absolutely should at the very least), then Blade Barrage should be added to the abilities gaining benefit from Precision, as it would be optimal to use it in them again.

So the reason Blade Barrage isn't affected is because if you only have two stacks every Precision window, Blade Barrage isn't optimal. Lance and Crackling Blast in one, Dispatch and Crackling Blast in the other seems the way to go. Now leaving out Cyclone Slash seems odd to me, that's quite a hit to AoE.

That said, if the decide to give an extra stack with Zen (which they absolutely should at the very least), then Blade Barrage should be added to the abilities gaining benefit from Precision, as it would be optimal to use it in them again.

 

You're probably right there, I'm thinking current rotations where Blade Barrage would be under Precision, but with only 2 stacks that would probably change. Still, even if it's not optimal, leaving Blade Barrage out seems like an odd choice considering Master Strike/Blade Barrage and Ravage are the Knight/Warrior's respective "iconic" abilities, so not having Blade Barrage/Ravage be affected by the bread-and-butter buff for Combat/Carnage seems like a huge oversight to me.

 

Cyclone Slash is another that I just don't understand unless the goal was to significantly reduce Combat's AOE potential as well. I just can't think of a reason for it to not be buffed by Precision, since it's not a single target ability and would only be used under Precision if AOE damage was desired, at which point you'd want Precision's buff applied.

 

Regardless, Zen needs to add a third stack. That's an absolute must. It's always seemed fairly intuitive to me that the idea was to squeeze as much out of Precision as humanly possibly. The class gets a baseline alacrity buff, it gets an alacrity buff through Zen, with Precision's duration being low, that seems like a fairly big hint to try and get your alacrity high enough to get more abilities in when Precision is up. To now act like that was never intended and nerf Combat into the ground by outright removing the possibility of 3 abilities (which is currently almost a guarantee, especially when Zen is up) just seems extremely odd to me.

 

We'd still take a DPS loss due to the loss of 3 abilities under Precision outside of Zen (which is also possible at the moment, I believe), but it's at least closer to the current reality of the class when you remove clipping from the equation. It also helps to restore some of the Zen/Precision synergy that Combat currently has that it's going to be losing with this change since alacrity won't change the amount of stacks you get.

Powertech

• In addition to its other effects, the Hitman utility now reduces the damage taken from area of effect attacks by 30% for the Pyrotech and Advanced Prototype disciplines, and reduces the damage taken while stunned by 30% for the Shield Tech discipline
  

Advanced Prototype

• Stabilized Armor has been replaced by Prototype Armor, which increases damage reduction by 2% for 15 seconds each time you are dealt critical damage, stacking up to 3 times.
  

DevNotes: We felt that Pyrotech Powertechs lacked the same defensive effectiveness as Advanced Prototype Powertechs, so we moved the protection against area of effect attacks from the Advanced Prototype discipline to a utility available for both disciplines. To fill the void, we gave Advanced Prototype the Prototype Armor passive, a new ability that replaces Stabilized Armor. Finally, we gave Shield Techs that take the Hitman utility some protection against damage while stunned.

 

https://i.imgur.com/IeRwaxl.png

They are completely destroying Carnage / Combat with this. Why they feel the need to further nerf it is beyond me, it's not at the top of the leaderboards, it's getting outperformed by Fury / Concentration ffs. It's obvious none of them play the discipline as 3 abilities in a Ferocity window without clipping a saberthrow in was standard. GCD reduced to 1.3 seconds with alacrity in the build means a total of 2.6s worth of GCD in the window easily allowing 3 abilities as long as the last ability doesn't regester damage at the end of the GCD. And the reasoning?!?!?! We're going to punish good players so that the poopers can do just as good damage.

Hey folks,

 

As we alluded to in the roadmap, we are planning a host of utility changes in Game Update 5.6 coming on 11/28. Instead of splitting them up by Class we decided to just deliver all of them to you at once. Below you will find every utility change that is currently planned:

 

Juggernaut

• Pooled Hatred now applies its full damage bonus to Shatter and Force Crush, and is no longer consumed prematurely by a damage tick from a Rage-costing ability that deals damage over time
  
• The Whiplash utility has been replaced by Hardened Defense, which reduces the damage taken from area of effect attacks by 60% for 15 seconds after Threatening Scream is used for the Vengeance and Rage disciplines, and reduces damage taken while stunned by 30% for the Immortal discipline
  
• The Thrown Gauntlet utility’s Intercede-improving effects have been moved to the Reckoning utility, and Thrown Gauntlet now additionally immobilizes any target hit by Saber Throw
  

Vengeance

• Deafening Defense no longer causes Threatening Scream to provide protection against area of effect attacks
  

DevNotes: Pooled Hatred was not applying its damage bonus to damage over time effects, so we changed it to make sure it was giving a damage boost to all the appropriate abilities.

Additionally, we rearranged a lot of the Juggernaut’s utilities to make the Rage discipline more viable on defense. We consolidated Whiplash, Thrown Gauntlet and Reckoning into two utilities, and gave Juggernauts a completely new utility, Hardened Defense, which gives them an area of effect damage reduction. Finally, we took out the damage reduction from Vengeance’s Deafening Defense passive, which is now available with the Hardened Defense utility.

--

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

So instead of buffing "Enraged Defenses" which is a cheap off brand compare to merc's kolto overload, you guys took away veng's aoe passive? Instead of making "saber reflect" able to deflect all types of single attacks, unlike the merc's reflect bubble that can deflect everything without a cap and heal nonetheless. You guys make a utility that basically gives us the same passive we were already getting? Awhile not adding any additional effects beside 30% DR for tanks (why not for all specs?). So now we have to give up a utility for something we already had awhile still being squishy in 4v4 rank matches? Let me tell you what happens to dps jug in rank matches coming from someone who main it this season and was able to get top 5 as well. If you dare initiate the charge you will get stun lock, follow with 2 choices of either breaking, at the risk getting cc again and poping few dcds or tank it out with "enraged defenses" that literally last for 3 second and barely recover any damage with it piss poor scaling in power. Then you can get netted awhile reaolve is full, so good luck kiting or dealing any damage awhile getting annihilated. It's just sad i had my hopes up for 5.5 and 5.6 with the talk of dps/utility changes. Should of known better than believing in Biofail.

 

P.S Merc's and snipers are still going be the best classes in the game when it comes to pvp , this barely put a dent in their classes.

I don't post often on these forums, but I feel I need to lend my voice to this.

 

My two favorite specs to play in this game are Deception and Carnage. While a nerf hammer was taken to Deception, I still could find solace in that, while my damage output is now terrible, the spec still has the same play style and can still be enjoyed to a certain extent.

 

Not so much with Carnage any more.

 

This will make the spec useless. I was already straining for a reason to play it over Fury. I've always liked the play style of Carnage way more than Fury, but Fury has better sustained dmg for PvE and all the stun immunities for PvP. Now, with this change, you'd have to be brain dead to pick Carnage over Fury.

 

A flat 2 stacks of Ferocity really shows a lack of understanding/appreciation of this spec. AT THE VERY LEAST there should be 3 stacks, with perhaps a 4th added when Berserk is used. Optimally, you should throw out this whole stack idea. The "latency issue" is a poor excuse for dismantling what was a fun and challenging spec.

So let me get this straight...you destroy infiltration's burst ability with your nerfs (not just 5.5, but in general over the years), but then you are giving more classes more defensives? Is that really what I'm seeing here?

 

You've taken away our burst and given every other class more damage and more defense over the years.... yet you haven't done jack S for our defenses (and don't give me changing the utility so it's AOE dam reduction all time not when stunned)...fighting head to head with other classes, we are at a disadvantage, one you've made worse over the years.

 

Really disappointed in you devs.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Kirtastropohe

Really you're only saving IO 15 heat. Not much of a buff guys. Really not going to make much of a difference.

 

You had to quote the WHOLE yellow text just to say that ?