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Lightning and Madness Sorcerer/Telekinetics and Balance Sage Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Lightning and Madness Sorcerer/Telekinetics and Balance Sage Set Bonus Discussion
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Ezmiu's Avatar

07.14.2015 , 10:18 PM | #31
My two cents on what should be changed:

2) Leave it as is, nothing bad about it.

4) Reduces the cost of Lightning Strike and Lightning Bolt or Disturbance and Telekinetic Burst by 2, and causes Force Lightning or Telekinetic Throw to consume 4 less force for the duration of their channel. Additionally, Crushing Darkness and Demolish or Mind Crush and Vanquish will cause your next Force Lightning to channel and tick twice as fast.

6) Affliction and Weaken Mind have a 30% chance to increase Alacrity by 5% for the next 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 20 seconds.

Moralist's Avatar

07.15.2015 , 12:49 AM | #32
2 and 4 pieces - Old 186 bonuses.

6 pieces - Old PvP bonus - decreasing CD for Mind Crush Or Vanquish and Crushing Darknes or Demolish.

These bonuses wiil work for both DPS specs.

I'm playing in Balance/Madness. In PvE it's one of the worst DPS specs for 1 target damage. After 3.0 almost time i'm not using disturbance, especially in PvE. Proc for instacast i'm use only for Vanquish. Maybe you can change mechanics for proc, i wanna mechanic as have shadows: Proc every 7,5-9 seconds, which finishes CD and make Mind Crush/Vanquish casting instantly.
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serpentari's Avatar

07.15.2015 , 01:02 AM | #33
as other mad sorcs stressed here, the current sb is mostly useless to us, since we dont depend on cd most of the time (offtop -same problem with oper healers). And what do i think - maybe we really should stray from having a single sb per class combat role? make more specified SBs for every discipline, enhancing that very discipline's token abilities. IMO this is the only way to not leave half of players out of the picture.
And offtop - please stop nerfing classes. power up those who turn out to be weaker, like it was done before, that way everyone will be happy. We PVE players on PVE servers cant understand why should we get nerfed all the time for pvp balance, sometimes practicly pushed out of our favorite disciplines.

Ascending's Avatar

07.15.2015 , 03:30 AM | #34
the DPS-win is totally ok with the setbonus.
But i rly like to see 1 set for each specc.
Go more in defferences and let us be an "lightning-sorc" or an "madness-sorc".
Let the madness be surrounded by a dark cloud and the lightning should be shakin by massiv lightningbolts around him. Its just an example .
If u got the whole set tokens u should have an optical change.
Sry for my bad english skills.
best regards.

DarthVengeant's Avatar

07.15.2015 , 05:44 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by royhenderson View Post
more than 30 percent of the rotation is TK burst. How do you NOT use it.
Ya, I read the abilities wrong. I was thinking they were the Consumption/Noble Sacrifice for some reason. That is why I said I never use them as TK/Lightning DPS. Of course I use Recklessness or Force Potency all the time. But a one second quicker cool down is completely worthless and pointless. I fail to see how that was even put in the game as a set piece honestly. It is a joke.

One thing this class/tree needs is some balance compared to others. I can go on my Commando/Merc and out DPS my Sage/Sorc every single time. You see, the Commando/Merc 6 set piece is actually very valuable and helps gain more dps, the Sage/Sorc 6 set is....garbage...and gains you nothing.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar

07.15.2015 , 12:18 PM | #36
I waffled a bit about chiming in on these threads, because I've lost a lot of faith in the dev team recently, but I finally fell down on the side of saying something…

The fact that the old (Dread Master) 4-piece set bonus exists in the game has caused an enormous set of problems for this tier's gearing. The old alacrity proc wasn't designed with respect to the new function of alacrity, particularly not with the way that alacrity interacts with buff durations (i.e. alacrity increases DPS not just through improving time and cooldown availability, but also by reducing CDs/ICDs without reducing buff duration). In fact, the old Dread Master 4-piece is worth a solid chunk of the target "5% increase" all by itself, even without including the 2-pc which comes along with it!

So this is a problem for balance reasons, and honestly not one that's going to go away in 4.0. I wouldn't be surprised to see the old 4pc remain BiS at level 65, despite being 10 levels behind, and since all the old operations are getting buffed to 65 with their gear drops replaced, a significant advantage will be held by anyone who will have gotten Dread Master gear prior to 4.0 dropping.

The old 4-pc also provides a subjective satisfaction that the new 6pc set bonus (or even the 4pc) just doesn't provide. It's a very active set bonus, in that it alters the rotation in a palpable and dynamic way (due to the way it causes ability CDs and proc ICDs to drift, quite literally randomly). The new 4pc feels fun in a similar way, but not to the same extent, and its conflict with Mental Alacrity/Polarity Shift certainly doesn't help.

In short, the old 4pc is numerically vastly, vastly superior to the new set bonuses, and it results in a subjective feel which is also dramatically better. Its continued existence in the game makes this whole conversation about new set bonuses largely irrelevant. The best thing for Bioware to do would be to disable the Dread Master (and all previous tiers!) 4pc set bonus, providing a clean slate in 4.0. Then, bring the alacrity proc back in the level 65 set bonuses in some form, if only for the dynamism it provides. 2% alacrity every 20 seconds is way too powerful (unless it's the only set bonus), but something in that direction would be much appreciated. It certainly would be more interesting than the very-forgettable 6pc that we have now.

On another sidebar, the 4pc set bonus as it is currently designed massively, massively favors TK/Lightning over Balance/Madness, even when you account for the delay that TK/Lightning is forced to impose on the proc-reduced Potency/Recklessness due to the alignment with Mental Alacrity/Polarity Shift. Disturbance/Lightning Strike just isn't used anywhere near as frequently as TK Burst/Lightning Bolt. A far superior set bonus would be an effect involving Mind Crush/Crushing Darkness, which is basically the only ability that both specs use at the same rate, though the double-tick procs in TK/Lightning and the damage boosts in Balance/Madness do make this sort of thing rather complex.
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Mr_Fuzzle's Avatar

07.15.2015 , 01:28 PM | #37
So let's pretend like the devs won't listen to a simple "bring back the old 4 piece" thread because in the past they've been horribly muleheaded about the direction they want the game to go as far as set bonuses. For the old 4 piece set, there was for all intents and purposes a ~65% uptime on it despite the 75% theoretical that can be achieved (the best parses are close to this). With TK/Lightning being still absurdly RNG dependent on procs including the one from the set bonus, can we incorporate its effects while also removing some RNG? In essence, yes. If the 6 piece simply gave 3% alacrity flat out, this would be a general nerf to the alacrity granted currently however the increased stats from the various armorings that will be used should compensate for this. This would also remove one element of RNG for the spec. Let me know what you guys think.
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Lesheren's Avatar

07.16.2015 , 03:08 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey everyone,

Current Level 60 Set Bonuses (for reference)
  • 2-Piece: Turbulence or Force Serenity and Thundering Blast or Force Leech increase alacrity by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Reduces cost of Lightning Strike and Force Lightning or Disturbance and Telekinetic Throw by 2 and reduces the cooldown of Polarity Shift or Mental Alacrity by 15 seconds.
  • 6-Piece: Lightning Strike and Lightning Bolt or Disturbance and Telekinetic Burst reduce the cooldown of Recklessness or Force Potency by 1 second.
Cheers, all!
The SWTOR Combat Team
How does my 2-piece setbonus increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds and devs still dnt know about it? o_O

Give us autocrit on force potency/recklessness to make the last set bonus at least equal to the other classes'.
Make telekinetic throw/force lightning reduce this CD as well (for balance/madness). <-- But it's pointless anyway.

Why don't you give us back 4-piece old pre-SoR set bonus + 2-piece new one?
Since all the best parses (and most of them are still hardly equal to the other classes' damage output) have been done with old 4-piece + new 2-piece.

MiaowZedong's Avatar

07.16.2015 , 11:31 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by ShawDou View Post
Btw am i only one who wonder why in actual 4pc bonus still is Disturbance, while all TK sages use Telekinetics Burst, or is this bonus highly towards balance?
Quote: Originally Posted by Magsel View Post
Back in January 2015 I made a bugreport and ticket about the useless 4-setbonus but no one ever did anything with that. So hopefully you guys can look at it now?
sage / sorc new 4 set bonus is useless for Lightning/Telekinetics or it's bugged
In case you haven't noticed, the 4-pc reduces the cooldown of Mental Alacrity/Polarity Shift, which is massively better for TK/Lightning than for Balance/Madness. The cost reduction is meant to make B/M a little less sad (also they frankly need it and TK/Lightning doesn't exactly have any Force management issues), but as KBN pointed out the 4-pc bonus still heavily favours TK/Lightning.

Monterone's Avatar

07.17.2015 , 11:10 PM | #40
Make the 6 piece equal for these two dps specs please. Lightning Strike and its upgrade are heavily used in TK, in fact it's a builder that's also needed for force regen.

In madness that lightning strike is only used if a proc is up and you have nothing else to use, so kinda rarely. Why not make these equal in some way?

Make Force Lightning ticks have 25% chance to do the same, or a full channel of FL take a second off. That may actually be equal with TK, otherwise middle tree gets all the benefit of such a high up set bonus.
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