Well considering the sith hadn't been around for a very long time up until TPM, of course they would think the sith are gone thats not being arrogant thats just something they believed up until Maul showed up. Arrogant by definition is exaggerating one's importance or abilities, we never see the jedi say

 

"Oh hey were better then some army of clones, lets not use them and win this war by ourselves."

 

Never did they say that, they knew what their limitations were.

No. The sith never were defeated at all. They had existed for about 500+ years before episode 1 and had never once been gone. The jedi just were to lazy to look and find the clues around them.

Yes we do see the Jedi that way. It's the entire reason palpatine rose to power and was able to stand infront of them without them knowing. They believed themselves these great people and all powerful yet were so weak and arrogant and unknowing.

The Mass Shadow Generator was created by the Zabrak tech specialist Bao-Dur, under orders from the Jedi Knight Revan, in the year 3,960 BBY. The weapon was the centerpiece of a trap with which Revan hoped to bring about a conclusive end to the Mandalorian Wars. Overseeing the device's use was Jedi General Meetra Surik who would later come to be known as the Jedi Exile. Revan lured the Mandalorians to Malachor V, and a massive fleet battle ensued in orbit. During the fighting, Surik commanded Bao-Dur to activate the secret weapon with a single, silent nod. Moments later, a significant portion of both fleets were suddenly drawn from orbit into a vast gravity vortex that was powerful enough to crush the countless ships into the planet's crust and fracture Malachor V to its very core.[1]

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Shadow_Generator

 

It sounds like it was more Revan's plan here.

You have to remember there are kotor 2 fanbois as well who like to insult the revan fanbois.

Yes I know that.

 

Traya tricked Nihilus but how did Surik? He tried to feed on her force power but he couldn't so then they just fought, that was more Traya's doing then Surik. By leading him to a place with promise of food but then he never got any and the hunger was weakening him.

 

While I agree Traya is a master and most certainly ****** in her own right I think her power was more in manipulation and deception then anything else, I don't think she would stand a chance in a fight with Sion and Nihilus. Agreed on the test thing.

Surik tricked im twice, first by taunting him into feeding on her, then by making him battle Visas, she was force bonded to him, by making him fight her, she disrupted their force bond, which weakened him even more.

In actual combat they would win because of their nature, but she had no weaknesses, there was nothing to exploit, and her knowledge was very difficult to overcome, she had skill in everything, but she trained Surik so well, she had been overtaken, the reason I believe she could defeat Nihilus and Sion, is because she already has, by using Surik as the weapon to do that, as is Traya's way.

I thought it was said it was Revan's plan? I think it was in a timeline video or something.. good chance I'm wrong though so. I'll have to check.

The timelines are written specifically in Master Gnost-Dural's knowledge, and Erickson stated himself, any differences are because he wasn't exactly correct, he was using popular knowledge and history, Surik was forgotten in time.

No. The sith never were defeated at all. They had existed for about 500+ years before episode 1 and had never once been gone. The jedi just were to lazy to look and find the clues around them.

 

Yes we do see the Jedi that way. It's the entire reason palpatine rose to power and was able to stand infront of them without them knowing. They believed themselves these great people and all powerful yet were so weak and arrogant and unknowing.

Did I say the sith were defeated? No, I said they were gone for a long time up until their re-appearance in EP 1, and the jedi did search for them they just didn't have any idea where to look.

What? How does Palpatine standing in front of them, make the jedi arrogant? If they were truly arrogant and believed they were all knowing, they wouldn't have the whole "clouded the future is" no they would make something up and say thats what would happen.

The Mass Shadow Generator was created by the Zabrak tech specialist Bao-Dur, under orders from the Jedi Knight Revan, in the year 3,960 BBY. The weapon was the centerpiece of a trap with which Revan hoped to bring about a conclusive end to the Mandalorian Wars. Overseeing the device's use was Jedi General Meetra Surik who would later come to be known as the Jedi Exile. Revan lured the Mandalorians to Malachor V, and a massive fleet battle ensued in orbit. During the fighting, Surik commanded Bao-Dur to activate the secret weapon with a single, silent nod. Moments later, a significant portion of both fleets were suddenly drawn from orbit into a vast gravity vortex that was powerful enough to crush the countless ships into the planet's crust and fracture Malachor V to its very core.[1]

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Shadow_Generator

 

It sounds like it was more Revan's plan here.

Wookieepedia isn't the best source to use, as it can be changed/written by anybody.

You have to remember there are kotor 2 fanbois as well who like to insult the revan fanbois.

Will you stop trying to turn this into a fanboy vs fanboy argument and stick to canon sources? thanks.

this game deemed kotor 2 to never exist...they took apart biowares story it was done by a different company...anything kotor says overwrites what kotor 2 said...and kotor 2 noted revan as the hero of the mandalorian wars

 

*edit* it'd be as if some star wars fan created star wars episode 7 and decided everything that happened 1-6 happened differant and decided to add their own things to it (kotor 2)...and then geroge lucas created his own ep 7 and decided to pretend the stupid fans never existed (tor)

KotOR 2 and KotOR are both C-canon, and nothing in either of them contradicts the other, KotOR 2 does exist, it is canon, it is definitely canon, where you got that idea I would like to know.

Surik tricked im twice, first by taunting him into feeding on her, then by making him battle Visas, she was force bonded to him, by making him fight her, she disrupted their force bond, which weakened him even more.

 

In actual combat they would win because of their nature, but she had no weaknesses, there was nothing to exploit, and her knowledge was very difficult to overcome, she had skill in everything, but she trained Surik so well, she had been overtaken, the reason I believe she could defeat Nihilus and Sion, is because she already has, by using Surik as the weapon to do that, as is Traya's way.

Wasn't it Visas' idea to use her bond to disrupt him? I really don't remember lol Her weakness was the exile in a way, and again a lightsaber would easily defeat her, but like you said in her element she is unmatched and she had to kill them using her strengths.

Wookieepedia isn't the best source to use, as it can be changed/written by anybody.

It's usually (in my experiance) pretty accurate, the developers themselves have stated they use it. So I'm going to stick with that explaination.

Wasn't it Visas' idea to use her bond to disrupt him? I really don't remember lol Her weakness was the exile in a way, and again a lightsaber would easily defeat her, but like you said in her element she is unmatched and she had to kill them using her strengths.

No, Surik told her to hang on and try and weaken him somehow, Visas spent the entire of the scene saying 'he is too strong' 'he can't be beaten' Lol.

Did I say the sith were defeated? No, I said they were gone for a long time up until their re-appearance in EP 1, and the jedi did search for them they just didn't have any idea where to look.

 

What? How does Palpatine standing in front of them, make the jedi arrogant? If they were truly arrogant and believed they were all knowing, they wouldn't have the whole "clouded the future is" no they would make something up and say thats what would happen.

They weren't gone. They were manipulating things. In the bane books the jedi found a jedi who had gone insane and killed him and found around him several of the strongest masters of the order and decided that the other jedi had gotten the jump on them and then left the planet content the sith were gone. Had they decided to look around they would have found bane and his apprentice under a rug in the same room.

They are arrogant because they feel themselves stronger than any other. I can't give you an exact moment it seems because you keep shooting them down. But george lucas himself has stated that it's true and has been the reason palpatine was able to rise so easily. I can't really give you any proof beyond that.

The jedi have always doomed the galaxy by being content and feeling everything can't touch them. Yet they always teach that no side can survive without the other. So instead of spending resources to constantly search (which they should even if it takes 100 years) they sit there in their temples and twiddle their thumbs and go herp derp how did the sith just kill us?

It's usually (in my experiance) pretty accurate, the developers themselves have stated they use it. So I'm going to stick with that explaination.

But Wookieepedia isn't really a canon source at all it is written by random people, my sources are both C-canon however.

No, Surik told her to hang on and try and weaken him somehow, Visas spent the entire of the scene saying 'he is too strong' 'he can't be beaten' Lol.

Oh lol like I said I don't really remember so yeah you are probably right.

Wookieepedia isn't the best source to use, as it can be changed/written by anybody.

They are always edited as well. Very few wikis ever have wrong information. That's just a commonly believed myth.

KotOR 2 and KotOR are both C-canon, and nothing in either of them contradicts the other, KotOR 2 does exist, it is canon, it is definitely canon, where you got that idea I would like to know.

Well I've gotten the idea from many places...the better question is how have you played both games and not seen the contradictions? lol

They weren't gone. They were manipulating things. In the bane books the jedi found a jedi who had gone insane and killed him and found around him several of the strongest masters of the order and decided that the other jedi had gotten the jump on them and then left the planet content the sith were gone. Had they decided to look around they would have found bane and his apprentice under a rug in the same room.

 

They are arrogant because they feel themselves stronger than any other. I can't give you an exact moment it seems because you keep shooting them down. But george lucas himself has stated that it's true and has been the reason palpatine was able to rise so easily. I can't really give you any proof beyond that.

 

The jedi have always doomed the galaxy by being content and feeling everything can't touch them. Yet they always teach that no side can survive without the other. So instead of spending resources to constantly search (which they should even if it takes 100 years) they sit there in their temples and twiddle their thumbs and go herp derp how did the sith just kill us?

I"m thinking you should use a different word, arrogant I don't think works because I don't see any of the jedi act like they can do everything in the movies. If so they wouldn't have needed a clone army, they could have just done everything by themselves even Qui-gon knew.

"I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you."

I mean he didn't seem arrogant at all, but then im probably looking at it a completely different way then you are.

But Wookieepedia isn't really a canon source at all it is written by random people, my sources are both C-canon however.

They write down the info from canon sources, that they list and provide links to for at the bottom of the page which seem legitimate.

Will you stop trying to turn this into a fanboy vs fanboy argument and stick to canon sources? thanks.

well its is fanboy vs fanboy.

Most posts here Interpret “canon” with biased eyes.

The way I see it, the Revan That was depicted in the Book and SWTOR, is not the Revan from KotoR. They really screwed him up

I started losing interest when I read the book. After seeing Revan’s personality in the Foundry flash point, I no longer have interest.

What they did was worse than killing him off. Hell they even failed on the exile.

Well I've gotten the idea from many places...the better question is how have you played both games and not seen the contradictions? lol

Care to point one out?

well its is fanboy vs fanboy.

 

Most posts here Interpret “canon” with biased eyes.

 

The way I see it, the Revan That was depicted in the Book and SWTOR, is not the Revan from KotoR. They really screwed him up

 

I started losing interest when I read the book. After seeing Revan’s personality in the Foundry flash point, I no longer have interest.

 

What they did was worse than killing him off. Hell they even failed on the exile.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - Revan can be put in a nutshell, Karpyshyn pulled a Traviss.

well its is fanboy vs fanboy.

 

Most posts here Interpret “canon” with biased eyes.

 

The way I see it, the Revan That was depicted in the Book and SWTOR, is not the Revan from KotoR. They really screwed him up

 

I started losing interest when I read the book. After seeing Revan’s personality in the Foundry flash point, I no longer have interest.

 

What they did was worse than killing him off. Hell they even failed on the exile.

Revan was locked in stasis for 300 years in a mind battle with one of the darkest minds in the galaxy, needless to say it rubbed off on him somewhat since he was always on the edge of light and dark it just pushed him over the edge. Nothing saying he can't be redeemed.

They write down the info from canon sources, that they list and provide links to for at the bottom of the page which seem legitimate.

Yes but they don't write it down word for word, and they do make mistakes, they make lots of them, I'd know, I'm one of the main members, have been since 2009.

Hell, if you want, go and look at the recent edits box, they change at least ten things a day on that site, to fit canon.

I"m thinking you should use a different word, arrogant I don't think works because I don't see any of the jedi act like they can do everything in the movies. If so they wouldn't have needed a clone army, they could have just done everything by themselves even Qui-gon knew.

 

"I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you."

 

I mean he didn't seem arrogant at all, but then im probably looking at it a completely different way then you are.

He can't fight a war as it's against the jedi "code". Qui gon was differant because he didn't follow a single jedi teaching. He was a rogue basically and used his own teachings. It's why obi wan said if he used the code he would be on the council.

They didn't think they needed a clone army. They didn't order the clone army and padme and the jedi at the beginning of the movie were going to vote that NO army should be made. They only decided to use an army when they finnaly realized the "oh **** we actually might be able 2 be challenged and now because of how amazing we thought we were we are kinda screwed its lucky this army was already here" moment. The army was made by dooku not the jedi.