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Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
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Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.04.2017 , 11:42 PM | #221
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
Nobody is willing to take responsibility for needing to change their playstyle to adjust for the changes.
Yeah, right.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
12.05.2017 , 12:03 AM | #222
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
Nobody is willing to take responsibility for needing to change their playstyle to adjust for the changes.
Not all changes are appropriate or warranted. If this meta hasn't made that abundantly clear than perhaps you are just on the good side of the changes made. - I don't even play an Assassin and I think it's wrong. I'm calling a spade a spade here.

The problem is that very few people seem to care unless a change effects them directly. That is, of course, until those people get something cut off their respective spec that was not appropriate, than they want to scream and rant. Karma's a bytch.

No one *****es about the changes to Fury for example, there's a reason for that.

As far as responsibility is concerned - You take responsibility for the things that you do, not for the things other people do to you. That's on them.

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.05.2017 , 04:53 AM | #223
You're right about people not caring where it doesnt affect them. Its the people that come here complaining we shouldn't make any objections that cry the hardest when their main class (which actually was op) gets a deserved nerf.

When sins were op, i didnt advocate the class. Not even slightly. I wad very plain about it being stupidly powerful AND i made plenty of suggestions on how it could be adressed without overdoing it.

Of course.. those suggestions were largely ignored.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
12.05.2017 , 10:35 AM | #224
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
You're right about people not caring where it doesnt affect them. Its the people that come here complaining we shouldn't make any objections that cry the hardest when their main class (which actually was op) gets a deserved nerf.

When sins were op, i didnt advocate the class. Not even slightly. I wad very plain about it being stupidly powerful AND i made plenty of suggestions on how it could be adressed without overdoing it.

Of course.. those suggestions were largely ignored.
Everyone is affected by every change (not just sin changes) either directly or indirectly. The numbers gave BW the support needed for the changes on an average player level - likely not on your personal level. Everyone needs to adjust to the changes. It is very possible that some of the good players are not adjusting very well. You can deny it all you want, and claim to be a great player, but the possibility is still there that you adjusted less efficiently than others. Changes made often suit different playstyles better than others, and if the changes go away from your personal tendencies/strategies, then you will have more adjusting to do than someone else who may look more "pro" than you now.

The changes were just recently done, and people havent given themselves much of an opportunity to adjuat.

But hey, im open minded about changes and nerfs, and dont jump to conclusions, so maybe its just me.

And Evolixe, its not that they ignored you, its that their numbers didnt support your findings. Without supportive data, changes arent likely to be made.

CraigOnXD's Avatar


CraigOnXD
12.05.2017 , 01:04 PM | #225
phasewalk back pls
http://www.swtor.com/r/4K28JN

<<All-Star Sync Squad>>

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
12.05.2017 , 02:44 PM | #226
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
Everyone is affected by every change (not just sin changes) either directly or indirectly. The numbers gave BW the support needed for the changes on an average player level - likely not on your personal level. Everyone needs to adjust to the changes. It is very possible that some of the good players are not adjusting very well. You can deny it all you want, and claim to be a great player, but the possibility is still there that you adjusted less efficiently than others. Changes made often suit different playstyles better than others, and if the changes go away from your personal tendencies/strategies, then you will have more adjusting to do than someone else who may look more "pro" than you now.

The changes were just recently done, and people havent given themselves much of an opportunity to adjuat.

But hey, im open minded about changes and nerfs, and dont jump to conclusions, so maybe its just me.

And Evolixe, its not that they ignored you, its that their numbers didnt support your findings. Without supportive data, changes arent likely to be made.
Just a quick point here about changes supposedly based on data. I don't disagree that they do have data that we are not privy to to the extent they are. The problem they [the combat 'team'] keep demonstrating that some of the changes they make are not based on data and to such a degree that it's been seen that they literally don't know how some specs actually operate. This was why I did come to a forum that was not about the class and spec I play because I was concerned that another mistake on the devs part can influence certain changes in other classes and specs. I did not post here to get my class looked at, but i did use the situation with Carnage Marauders as part of what I mentioned in my original post because it serves as a blantant example of a spec changes based entirely on a faulty premise. I'll try and be brief ,I know I tend to be long winded, I'm working on that

Carnage Marauders in 5.6 received a "utility nerf" that had nothing to do with any utility whatsoever, it was the only change on their list of utility changes that did not give a name of a utility that was being changed, how that unnamed 'utility' has been operating and how they want to change that 'utility' in 5.6. So, Carnage received a tremendous DPS nerf in a utility change patch even though the change had nothing whatsoever to do with any existing utility. This is in addition to the DPS nerf they received in 5.2. The stated purpose of the change to Carnage was that they wanted to remove clipping from the spec as it was "unintended". Okay, fine. Now anyone who plays the spec knows full well that clipping only got you one extra attack in the Berserk Ferocity window but did not need clipping to get three attacks into the non-berserk ferocity window [three second ferocity window, 3 instant attacks, doesn't take a rocket scientist to do that math], so when people raised the issue that they were losing a ton of DPS because the original carnage change wanted there to be only two attacks that could fit into any ferocity window [Beserk or non-berserk]. Which would have removed three attacks from the specs burst window which is a huge dps loss [4/3 to 2/2]. It was pointed out by players that the clipping only gave us spec one extra attack in that window, so we shouldnt be losing two attacks when clipping only provided one extra attack so, there was no justification to make the Berserk Ferocity window lose to attacks due to clipping. It was also pointed out that the non beserk window did not need to clip at all to get three attacks in it.

So what did they do? They gave one attack back to the Beserk window but did not change the amount of attacks allowed to the non-beserk window despite the fact you never needed to clip to get three attacks in it in the first place. So, for no good reason, they still withheld an extra attack without any basis to their stated change to do away with clipping. I wanted to make people aware of it, not because I was trying to rally anyone for Carnage [wrong forum for that], but to be aware of the fact changes being made may in fact be based on the lack of understanding of specs by people who are the ones effecting such massive changes to classes. They have not said one word to Carnage players as to why they are still withholding an attack that could not have been based on clipping.

When I saw the DR change for Deception during stuns, I realized what a huge effect that would have on Assassin players. If BW could do what they did to Carnage it would be foolish to think that they couldn't/woundn't do it to other specs. The basis for the DR Change to deception I cannot imagine. When everyone is getting stunned every three seconds in PVP such a big change would hurt any spec. I want players of Deception to look into the reasoning so maybe they might be able to address this change and perhaps if justified have a change made to it. Carnage didn't get everything it was owed back, but it did get part it back, so maybe Deception could get at least get a partial improvement like carnage.

Deception and Carnage are both mDPS specs, they face many of the same sorts of perils despite that they operate in different manners. mDPS already has it hard enough in this meta in PVP with the never ending hoards of Mercs and Snipers and their incessant CCs and ridiculous dcds and healing as DPS specs, these mDPS specs did not deserve such big hits. Additionally, if I'm not mistaken, Assassins are also the only class that has to spend a utility point to use it's class buff [Assassin's Shelter], that's some BS too. So yeah, sometimes bytching is justified

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.05.2017 , 04:07 PM | #227
Honestly, all this guy is saying is "Biowaer haz dataz, hail lewrd Biowaer".. Essentially, anyway.

No. I have seen them work up close, and not only do they not have a data basis for everything, they also very plainly don't always know how a spec even works in the real world in the first place.

Look, all due respect to the developers but this attitude of "Trust me, im a developer" has got to change.
If 90% of your feedback here is that a decision was bad, it's is more than likely a bad decision.

It's not about adjusting. This is entirely passive, it's not an adjustment it's just sitting there and taking it. Literally.
Assassins got shafted on something the class had no problems with, not from itself and not with other classes.
I say this not just as an Assassin, but as someone who takes in consideration the pov from all the other classes as well.


I honestly really just wish the people who made these class balance decisions would come here for a discussion for once. I would LOVE to have a word with them on a number of things.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

FlavivsAetivs's Avatar


FlavivsAetivs
12.05.2017 , 04:26 PM | #228
Shadow's/Assassin's Shelter isn't a raid buff. It's a tiny 5% damage reduction within a 5-meter range and 2800 points of healing.

It's basically useless. It was useful back in 3.X when it had a 30 m range, did like a 5% healing buff and like a 5% DR buff, but it's useless now.
A.K.A. Magister Militum Flavius Aetius
Eudoxia Eudoxya
<Aeterna Vigilantia>
Jedi Covenant

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.05.2017 , 04:28 PM | #229
Quote: Originally Posted by FlavivsAetivs View Post
Shadow's/Assassin's Shelter isn't a raid buff. It's a tiny 5% damage reduction within a 5-meter range and 2800 points of healing.

It's basically useless. It was useful back in 3.X when it had a 30 m range, did like a 5% healing buff and like a 5% DR buff, but it's useless now.
Eh, its used in pve. But only because there is nothing better.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
12.05.2017 , 05:20 PM | #230
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
Eh, its used in pve. But only because there is nothing better.
Tank only though, and not even on every fight.
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

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