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Lightning PvP Feedback


fortyfivedollars's Avatar


fortyfivedollars
11.27.2017 , 03:35 PM | #1
Rotation

The Lightning rotation is all wrong. Burst caster spec rotations have to follow two rules:

Dots up first
Casts before instants

Having to use an instant before a cast is clunky because instants are front-loaded GCDs and casts are back-loaded GCDS. Using a front-loaded GCD before a back-loaded GCD essentially makes you wait out 2 GCDs before hitting your target again. Optimally the rotation should consist of back-loaded casts followed by front-loaded instants for nice one-two burst combos.

How this applies to the Lightning rotation specifically is the issue of Crushing Darkness needing Lightning Flash to be cast first. Optimally the opening burst rotation should be Crushing Darkness + Affliction, then Thundering Blast + Chain Lightning. However the cast time on Crushing darkness makes this impractical without the Lightning Flash proc. Other than the Crushing Darkness proc Lighting Flash isn't terrible useful, so I would suggest making Crushing Darkness a 1.5 second cast by default and doing something else with Lighting Flash. Perhaps make it a >30%hp execute.

Defenses

Lightning has two viable defenses for PvP: Force Barrier and Heal tanking. Unfortunately both these defenses prohibit any DPS. So unless you have someone else around to kill the guy attacking you, you're just delaying the inevitable. Now, my position on caster defenses is that a DPS class should be relying on its DPS to kill the target before the target kills them, so I don't agree with giving Lightning Sorcs more DCDs. DCDs also do not fit the light armor caster archetype. Bioware already knows my position on kiting, but Lightning Sorcs need to be able to kite more effectively for their defense. So at this time I would simply suggest that Lightning Bolt become an instant cast ability, while removing it's chance to proc instant Chain Lightning.

I also have some issues with the relative lack of armor penetration for Lightning Sorcs (and on the flip-side, lack of passive damage mitigation). Most other DPS specs have enough armor penetration to negate all of a Sorc's armor, while a Lightning Sorc receives no armor penetration for it's lightning abilities. I'm going to assume that our two dots are meant to cover this (even though Crushing Darkness damage is also mitigated by armor), so when the application of said dots become more practical we can see if armor penetration is still a problem for burst DPS.

To reiterate:

Lower the cast time of Crushing Darkness to 1.5 seconds by default, and also lower it's cooldown to 10 seconds to synch it with Thundering Blast
Make Lightning Bolt an instant cast ability by default, and remove its chance to proc instant Chain Lightning
Also possibly remove the 10% Internal and Elemental damage reduction bonus from the Inquisitor/Consular class buff

fortyfivedollars's Avatar


fortyfivedollars
11.27.2017 , 10:48 PM | #2
Here's a pithy comment.

Heatseeker Missile does 30k damage and is instant.
Ambush does 30k damage and is uninterruptible.
Thundering Blast does 12k damage, has a cast time and is interruptible.

Hoppinswtor's Avatar


Hoppinswtor
11.28.2017 , 01:04 AM | #3
Lightning's not perfect. Here are a few corrections/suggestions:

(1) Buff Thundering Blast. My average thundering blast hits for 18k (24k with recklessness autocrit), not 12k. It's still FAR too weak, though - regular tb's should hit for 23k and the autocrits 32k. If the dps parses get out of control, bioware can simply remove the forked lightning procs on lightning bolt in exchange for the harder-hitting burst. In other words: high peaks, low valleys. Autocrit thundering blast should be the second hardest hitting move in the game (after ambush, which should hit for 35k w/everything attached) and about 5 percent ahead of heatseekers. Like you said, it's an interrupt-able cast - and recklessness only comes once every 1m15s or so. Without recklessness, this buffed thundering blast would be roughly as potent as raging burst. I mean sure, you do occasionally get a secondary thundering blast move, but it's rng-based - maybe bioware should just remove that extra attack and roll all that damage into the primary hit.

(2) Keep Lightning Bolt proc. You get two free lightning bolts every time you use force speed - and often get other instant bolts after taking damage. I've won duels without casting a single tb for this very reason. It's extremely important for lightning bolt to proc chain lightning.

(3) Mitigate the active, resource-intensive nature of sorc survivability. You'll still need to kite, but you won't lose thousands upon thousands of dps (and all your force) if the spec had more passive aid - that is, cooldowns/heals that are off the gcd. Look at merc, sniper, and all of the melee classes: almost all of their survivability is passive, so they tend to lose far less dps when tunneled or dueling. Lightning basically needs some sort of proc that provides free, buffed, instant heals - the static barrier should also be taken off the gcd and given a 5-second cd so that it can still be used to off-bubble without being OP. Perhaps lightning flash, in addition to reducing the cd of crushing darkness, should make your next dark heal a free instant. The crit chance of dark heal should be buffed as well - I shouldn't have to burn recklessness stacks on my basic heal - further nerfing my dps output - just to make it viable.

(4) Interrupt immunity for 4 seconds after unnatural preservation would help prevent casts from getting shut down.

(5) Fix Phase Walk. It's is a great dcd, but bugged to all heck. Phase walk shouldn't reset when you are hindered or out of range. Additionally, apply a bastion debuff so that you can only be hindered once every 2 minutes (the cd for cc break). Frankly, this should apply to every class - and then give some other classes a short hinder to balance things out.

Also, regarding the burst window: I prefer to burst someone down with thundering blast (w/affliction obviously) + lightning flash + chain lightning, in exactly that order. In other words, a cast followed by two instants. 3 charges of recklessness consumed for about 50k damage in 3 seconds. Save your last stack for chain lightning; if you still have two stacks of recklessness and you hit other people with chain lightning, you'll lose both stacks; if you use chain lightning on your last stack, it'll still autocrit all targets. More splash damage during your burst window is always a good thing. After that you can go into crushing darkness + shock.

My redesign of the lightning rotation treats it as a ranged carnage, in which a revamped crushing darkness serves as your ferocity/burst window. That's when you get an autocrit thundering blast (that can be clipped!) and a significantly buffed shock, as well as a new sub-30 execute move specifically for that window. I might post it someday.

Also, just an aside: if you're kiting melee, don't apply force slow until the snare from chain lightning wears off. They're both 50 percent snares.
Hoppin, The Cutest Mercenary <Death Smile>
Hoppinator/Cutest Mercenary (Merc), Hoppin (Sorc), Hopposites (Mara), Hoptimal (Sin)
Hopalicious (Jugg), Hopperative (Operative), Hoptimize (PT)

fortyfivedollars's Avatar


fortyfivedollars
11.28.2017 , 02:14 AM | #4
Base damage of Thundering Blast at level 70 is 1528. For TB to be hitting for 18k on average you need 5600 bonus damage, which is impossible with current gear. Recklessness doesn't add crit damage, only crit chance, so it's irrelevant for an autocrit.

Hoppinswtor's Avatar


Hoppinswtor
11.28.2017 , 02:29 AM | #5
Hmm, could be your gear or something. Take a look at the max hit/average hit here:

https://i.imgur.com/67PNGKO.png
Hoppin, The Cutest Mercenary <Death Smile>
Hoppinator/Cutest Mercenary (Merc), Hoppin (Sorc), Hopposites (Mara), Hoptimal (Sin)
Hopalicious (Jugg), Hopperative (Operative), Hoptimize (PT)

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fortyfivedollars
11.28.2017 , 02:46 AM | #6
Sorry, still don't believe you.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
11.28.2017 , 05:52 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by fortyfivedollars View Post
Base damage of Thundering Blast at level 70 is 1528. For TB to be hitting for 18k on average you need 5600 bonus damage, which is impossible with current gear. Recklessness doesn't add crit damage, only crit chance, so it's irrelevant for an autocrit.
Look up any parse on parsely, Thundering Blast hits for about 19k in max gear (if you get the extra proc thingy you're looking at 24k by the way). And yes Recklessness does affect Thundering Blast, any crit chance over 100% gets added to crit multiplier. That's why on the top parse for lightning at the moment (this one) the average TB hits about 20k, where the top crit is 27k.

As to your comparison with Ambush and Heatseekers (the average crits on the top parses dealing 26k and 25k respectively), they aren't autocrits and have longer cooldowns (12 and 15 seconds respectively, where tb has a 9 second cooldown). Don't get me wrong I'm not arguing whether or not Lightning needs changes, I'm just saying you're way off on these.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
11.28.2017 , 01:09 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by fortyfivedollars View Post
Base damage of Thundering Blast at level 70 is 1528. For TB to be hitting for 18k on average you need 5600 bonus damage, which is impossible with current gear. Recklessness doesn't add crit damage, only crit chance, so it's irrelevant for an autocrit.
yes it does nowadays, since autocrit the extra crit change is added to surge.

fortyfivedollars's Avatar


fortyfivedollars
11.28.2017 , 01:20 PM | #9
Right, so it's not 18k on average, it's just 18k every 1.5 minutes. And HSM and Ambush hit for 30k on unarmored targets, like a Sorc with it's entire armor mitigation negated by armor penetration.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
11.28.2017 , 01:36 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by fortyfivedollars View Post
Right, so it's not 18k on average, it's just 18k every 1.5 minutes. And HSM and Ambush hit for 30k on unarmored targets, like a Sorc with it's entire armor mitigation negated by armor penetration.
No, 18k on average, 27k every minute and a half. And that's not counting the 4.5k extra about once in four times due to Forked Darkness.