Hey folks, simple question how does Vanguard stack up to other classes in terms of pve dps?

I know this thread exists http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=847112, but is it still valid? It was written almost 9 months ago at this point, and I was curious if those numbers are still accurate. Guildies are telling me that Vanguard dps is a top performer, but from the looks of this, that would be wrong.

Appreciate the input folks, thanks in advance.

the thing is that the calculated numbers only really work in their potential on the dummy parses. the thing why vanguard and powertechs work so well in real boss fights is because they have the highest mobility of all classes while being more of a mid range class other than a pure 4 meter melee dps like warriors, operatives and assasins.

Furthermore, the rotation is not really that hard and while playing advanced prototype or tactics , which is really the only viable option for almst every boss encounter, you have the highest burst out of any class. it is also that you have usually a higher crit chance than other specs because of the spec advantages as well as your combat focus.

in short: you have high mobility with high burst and a simple rotation.

Since the first day or so I saw no response I already looked into it from a different source. Parsely has an ops leaderboard, which I went through, every boss fight, on hardmode 8m and 16m. Except for some obscure ones, like dreadful entity in TfB for instance, and a few others like it. The data isn't perfect, but it should suffice.

The conclusion I came to was essentially what I suspected. While there are certain fights where Vanguards really shine, and there are definitely a few of those around, the majority of the more consistent dps would be sentinels & guardians dominating the leader-boards more often than not. Even if there is someone else in first or second place like a commando, or sage here or there, generally 7 or 8 out of 10 are made up of sentinels or guardians (there are exceptions of course). After that it evens out a bit more, to sages, gunslingers, commandos, and vanguards. Shadows and Scoundrels are borked though. There are a few exceptional players that make the list here and there using those classes, but in general it's very, very low compared to the others to the point of being almost none existent.

Side note : Obviously there are a lot of empire players that made the leader-boards. When I say sentinel or sage or w/e, I mean their counterparts too obviously. I just didn't feel like typing that all out.

Since the first day or so I saw no response I already looked into it from a different source. Parsely has an ops leaderboard, which I went through, every boss fight, on hardmode 8m and 16m. Except for some obscure ones, like dreadful entity in TfB for instance, and a few others like it. The data isn't perfect, but it should suffice.

 

The conclusion I came to was essentially what I suspected. While there are certain fights where Vanguards really shine, and there are definitely a few of those around, the majority of the more consistent dps would be sentinels & guardians dominating the leader-boards more often than not. Even if there is someone else in first or second place like a commando, or sage here or there, generally 7 or 8 out of 10 are made up of sentinels or guardians (there are exceptions of course). After that it evens out a bit more, to sages, gunslingers, commandos, and vanguards. Shadows and Scoundrels are borked though. There are a few exceptional players that make the list here and there using those classes, but in general it's very, very low compared to the others to the point of being almost none existent.

 

Side note : Obviously there are a lot of empire players that made the leader-boards. When I say sentinel or sage or w/e, I mean their counterparts too obviously. I just didn't feel like typing that all out.

Hah,

Before reading numbers off a page and having an opinion you need to know what someone was doing to get those numbers.

Most of the high scores on a leaderboard stink of cheese and when a guardian is hitting huge numbers you can smell that cheese a mile off.

Go into the log and look for a huge segment of damage labelled saber reflect, this is the guardian taunting a boss or standing in stupid to get the boss to hit itself for massive numbers.

Is it worth dragging a guardian through every other fight just to do that? Maybe, but do not list guardians as consistently strong dps, they can only hit the top by standing on a block of cheese.

Hah,

 

Before reading numbers off a page and having an opinion you need to know what someone was doing to get those numbers.

 

Most of the high scores on a leaderboard stink of cheese and when a guardian is hitting huge numbers you can smell that cheese a mile off.

 

Go into the log and look for a huge segment of damage labelled saber reflect, this is the guardian taunting a boss or standing in stupid to get the boss to hit itself for massive numbers.

 

Is it worth dragging a guardian through every other fight just to do that? Maybe, but do not list guardians as consistently strong dps, they can only hit the top by standing on a block of cheese.

I know saber reflect was there. What exactly they're reflecting in each boss fight I don't know. But for instance I know they can reflect a lot of damage of the consoles in the HM Torque fight. That doesn't mean it's cheese, it's the nature of the fight. Just because an ability is giving them damage and you don't like it, doesn't mean they're cheating to get it.

I know saber reflect was there. What exactly they're reflecting in each boss fight I don't know. But for instance I know they can reflect a lot of damage of the consoles in the HM Torque fight. That doesn't mean it's cheese, it's the nature of the fight. Just because an ability is giving them damage and you don't like it, doesn't mean they're cheating to get it.

You can add the definition of cheese to the things you don't know as well. It's not cheating.

Cheese is getting something of huge benefit with no effort.

Taunting a cluster of orbs on Brontes and shrouding for vast advantage over other tanks is cheese.

Reflecting ranged/force damage back to the boss as a guardian is cheese.

Standing in fire as a vanguard to proc into the fray and electroshield for passive damage boost is cheese.

The list goes on.

The point is, a guardian being able to cheese some fights does not make them better than vanguards who can cheese many more fights. Which is ofc this threads direction.

You can add the definition of cheese to the things you don't know as well. It's not cheating.

Man you really seem to be taking this personally, aren't you? I'm sure berating people works for you some of the time, but honestly you can go **** yourself for all I care. Being able to stand in mechanics due to defensive cooldowns is in fact part of a classes kit. Some classes do it better than others, and that's that. I'm sorry you feel it's "cheese" that they also get damage out of it, but that's part of their kit. The reality is, if they're not dying and are able to maintain the dps, then more power to them. Damage is damage, at the end of the day. After all you don't see anyone else complaining that some spike their numbers do to aoe damage on adds from a safe distance or anything. That's just the nature of the fight., every bit adds up

That said, I'm done responding to you. When you can actually have a civilized conversation, with out sounding like a pissed off 12 year old, maybe I'll reconsider.

That's special, tell me I'm taking it personally and then immediately make it personal, high class callout there.

I don't care what you think about cheese, it is what it is and knowing what you and everyone else can do is essential to knowing maximum potentials.

But when you decide to pull up guardians as top dps you need to know what they are doing to get there as the only times they can get to the top is a very niche form of ability cheese.

They are nothing special in any fight where this is not practical which means pretty much every fight they are very average melee.

The cheese available to vanguards is damage and resource boosts triggered by AOE which is virtually every fight plus shielding allies against massive damage with Sonic Rebounder which also reflects that hit back to the boss. This increases their damage over parsing values and provides team support for free, again, this is almost every fight.

Sentinels and Vanguards are the best melee options due to damage and team support.