Those are "Physical" now. White damage ever since 1.2.

Well, that's stupid.

And I was unaware of the change to the AC, not how flytext colours work

Just trying to be thorough in my answers.

Edit: Did some parsing and with my current gear (in combat spec/ ataru form), Focus is just not comparable with Combat and Watchman in a PvE environment based on singe target DPS.

My Focus spec and parse with 1255 dps at 360s.

My Combat spec and parse with 1603 dps at 360s.

My Watchman spec and parse with 1479 dps at 360s.

I parsed with full raid buffs, Zen, Inspiration and Exotech stim (my strength is 2071 with the stim), however I'm going to test Watchman again with three points in Steadfast over Insight because I only have 6% accuracy from gear, 1% from legacy buff, and I'm curious what the difference between 3% more accuracy vs 6% more crit would be. I also believe the parse for Focus would be higher if I had more accuracy, but I seriously doubt that 6% - 8% more accuracy will net a 340 dps increase.

finally some clear info

bump!

That is really nice work! I got few questions after reading it:

1. Watchman priorities: you have placed Merciless Slash above Cauterize in priority. What is the advantage compared to opposite priority where MS has chance to refresh Cauterize? (with exception of situation where MS must be prioritized to maintain the stacks).

2. Combat, Blade Rush, do I understand it right?: Ataru strike always happens with BR (triggering Opportune Strike) and in addition increases by 30% (to 50% in total) the chance of next Ataru strike for next 6 seconds (providing that I do not use BR in this time span).

Thanks, Bogy

1. Watchman priorities: you have placed Merciless Slash above Cauterize in priority. What is the advantage compared to opposite priority where MS has chance to refresh Cauterize? (with exception of situation where MS must be prioritized to maintain the stacks).

Putting Cauterize higher in the priority list would imply you're trying to refresh the cooldown on MS when it's already available...

That is really nice work! I got few questions after reading it:

 

1. Watchman priorities: you have placed Merciless Slash above Cauterize in priority. What is the advantage compared to opposite priority where MS has chance to refresh Cauterize? (with exception of situation where MS must be prioritized to maintain the stacks).

 

2. Combat, Blade Rush, do I understand it right?: Ataru strike always happens with BR (triggering Opportune Strike) and in addition increases by 30% (to 50% in total) the chance of next Ataru strike for next 6 seconds (providing that I do not use BR in this time span).

 

Thanks, Bogy

1. MS does more damage than Cauterize with one hit, and the stacks are much more important to maintain.

2. Yes, you're correct. It's a big benefit to Master Strike.

Thanks. We've been missing a decent PvE guide.

 

*Edit*: Also, I don't think anyone is going to razz you about not having a Focus section, since Focus is almost exclusively PvP currently.

 

**Edit**:

 

 

From the theorycrafting articles that I've read that is true. Strength gives ~.20 and Power gives ~.23 (both of those are rounded to the nearest .00). As you said, Strength also adds to Critical Chance (linearly instead of logarithmic [diminishing returns], I believe). The even bigger bonus which you didn't mention is that the bonus to strength is "double buffed." With both Force Might and Force Valor, Strength actually provides a larger average damage (which includes critical chance) than Power for any attack with a large damage Coefficient (basically all attacks with the exception of strike). Note: If I find the article again I'll link it.

Force might buffs melee, ranged, force, and tech bonus damage. Power is factored into all of those so force might is also buffing your power.

1. MS does more damage than Cauterize with one hit, and the stacks are much more important to maintain.

 

2. Yes, you're correct. It's a big benefit to Master Strike.

I was having concerns because long time ago I made some number crunching (probability / statistics) and it seemed that if you do not use BR within 2 max 3 GCDs after last Ataru Strike it was better to stick to Slash for higher damage especially if talented to crit. First test with combat logs shown however that BR spam > Slash spam and I could not get a grip what was the reason.

Two more questions:

1. Would you always recommend STR > Power or once hitting a Crit cap of 30% focus on Power more?
   
2. 30% crit cap is absolutely unbuffed or totally buffed?
   

Thanks!

I always recommend stacking Strength over power, because the more strength you have, the less crit raiting you require. That said there has been a number of people saying that once you're at around 2100 of your mainstat, the crit bonus hit's Diminishing Returns and its then better to switch to stacking Power. However, really the only way you're going to get to 2100 strength is if you're full campaign geared and fully buffed/ stim-ed.

And 30% Crit is the soft cap unbuffed.

Thanks again! I know I need to get back 5% with upgrade to lev 63 gear.

Maybe this graph will be little help with DR's. It is the illustration to my post on formulas here. Checking the graph, the value between 2000 - 2100 for Primary Stat (+28.5% bonus from PS) seems indeed the perfect moment to switch to stacking the (Unlimited) Power.

Thanks again! I know I need to get back 5% with upgrade to lev 63 gear.

 

Maybe this graph will be little help with DR's. It is the illustration to my post on formulas here. Checking the graph, the value between 2000 - 2100 for Primary Stat (+28.5% bonus from PS) seems indeed the perfect moment to switch to stacking the (Unlimited) Power.

While I think that graph is awesome, could you possibly scale down the x-axis so that it caps out at 2500 or something like that? There's just not enough of a stat budget to make anything really get close to 2500 main stat/ crit rating and would make finding the "Sweet Spot" visually easier.

While I think that graph is awesome, could you possibly scale down the x-axis so that it caps out at 2500 or something like that? There's just not enough of a stat budget to make anything really get close to 2500 main stat/ crit rating and would make finding the "Sweet Spot" visually easier.

• graph with function info
  
• plain graph
  

Graph for Crit ratings would be useful in other scale too. If you would like to create some correlation tables "I have XX Strength buffed so I need YY Critical rating to get ZZ% crit" PM me and we can chat after weekend, it will be a lot of data though.

Here you go, limits x: 2500, y: 30:

• graph with function info
  
• plain graph
  

Graph for Crit ratings would be useful in other scale too. If you would like to create some correlation tables "I have XX Strength buffed so I need YY Critical rating to get ZZ% crit" PM me and we can chat after weekend, it will be a lot of data though.

This is entirely why I never did well in Stats or Calculus.... lol will do.

I always recommend stacking Strength over power, because the more strength you have, the less crit raiting you require.

This seems to be an incredibly common belief, but it is, as always, incorrect. The crit chance contribution from Strength is on a completely separate DR curve from Critical Rating. How much you stack of one does not effect the value of the other.

This seems to be an incredibly common belief, but it is, as always, incorrect. The crit chance contribution from Strength is on a completely separate DR curve from Critical Rating. How much you stack of one does not effect the value of the other.

How is this incorrect? As a Sentinel you should shoot for 30% crit chance unbuffed. You have a base 5% crit chance so you need 25% from Strength and Critical Rating to reach 30%. So, if you had about 2000 unbuffed Strength you would need less Critical rating to hit that 25% sweet spot than if you had 1800 unbuffed Strength. The more you have of one, the less you need of the other.

How is this incorrect? As a Sentinel you should shoot for 30% crit chance unbuffed.

Why is this?

Why is this?

Because, for Watchmen Spec with 35% crit fully buffed and 5 stacks of Juyo form your Burns will have a 50% chance to crit (56% if you take Insight) and for Combat more than 35% crit is unnecessary in terms of DPS gains.

Hitting this cap using as little crit rating as necessary allows you to stack more Power (from mods and enhancements) which is a more static increase to DPS.

Because, for Watchmen Spec with 35% crit fully buffed and 5 stacks of Juyo form your Burns will have a 50% chance to crit (56% if you take Insight) and for Combat more than 35% crit is unnecessary in terms of DPS gains.

Why is this a "cap"? Why would going from 35% to 40% crit have less of an effect on DPS than going from 30 to 35%?

(Yes, I am leading you on. But I find it's easier to explain the crit chance target myth if you work through it.)

Why is this a "cap"? Why would going from 35% to 40% crit have less of an effect on DPS than going from 30 to 35%?

 

(Yes, I am leading you on. But I find it's easier to explain the crit chance target myth if you work through it.)

Then instead of leading me on, just come out and say it.

Then instead of leading me on, just come out and say it.

Fair enough.

First, crit chance does not inherently decrease in value. Some class mechanics reduce the overall value of crit chance (Watchman Zen, Blade Storm autocrits), but going from 20 to 25% crit chance is no more or less valuable than going from 70 to 75%. In both cases you crit 5% more often, which improves your DPS.

We stop increasing crit chance at a certain point, though, because the stats that yield it (Critical Rating and Strength) yield it in a diminishing rate. You have a limited budget to spending between CR and Power, and at a certain point CR no longer adds enough crit chance to exceed the net DPS effect of adding Power instead. Strength, meanwhile, is a separate source of crit chance; it does not effect the returns of CR, and thus does not change how much CR you should stack before switching to Power.

Of course, in the case of Strength the DR is very low, so for any current gear budget it's always going to be better point-for-point than Power (the added crit chance is high enough to outweigh the added bonus damage from Power, in terms of net DPS).

Fair enough.

 

First, crit chance does not inherently decrease in value. Some class mechanics reduce the overall value of crit chance (Watchman Zen, Blade Storm autocrits), but going from 20 to 25% crit chance is no more or less valuable than going from 70 to 75%. In both cases you crit 5% more often, which improves your DPS.

 

We stop increasing crit chance at a certain point, though, because the stats that yield it (Critical Rating and Strength) yield it in a diminishing rate. You have a limited budget to spending between CR and Power, and at a certain point CR no longer adds enough crit chance to exceed the net DPS effect of adding Power instead. Strength, meanwhile, is a separate source of crit chance; it does not effect the returns of CR, and thus does not change how much CR you should stack before switching to Power.

 

Of course, in the case of Strength the DR is very low, so for any current gear budget it's always going to be better point-for-point than Power (the added crit chance is high enough to outweigh the added bonus damage from Power, in terms of net DPS).

In terms of fitting the suggestion of this guide (hovering around 30% crit chance from Strength and Rating) and given the current gear budget, the more Strength you have, the less crit rating you need. What you're saying is arbitrarily true, but what I said is conditionally true.

In terms of fitting the suggestion of this guide (hovering around 30% crit chance from Strength and Rating) and given the current gear budget, the more Strength you have, the less crit rating you need. What you're saying is arbitrarily true, but what I said is conditionally true.

Unfortunately what this means is that, while not flat out incorrect, the guide is a little misleading.

There simply isn't a crit % chance "sweet spot" that you should be aiming for. It's an arbitrary number that fluctuates wildly based on your gear level. There can only logically be a critical rating sweet spot because that remains consistent no matter what your gear level.

Strength is better than power though, it's just not for that reason. As was stated, strength is better because its critical chance is on a separate DR curve and the amount of critical chance it provides is > the slightly more bonus damage that power provides. This will always be true regardless of your current critical chance with the gear that is in game at present.

As for critical rating, DR hits somewhere around a 300 rating (over 350 is where you'll probably start to notice it yourself). The only way to determine an actual "sweet spot" is through either using the math to extrapolate what the results of various crit ratings are likely to be, or to actually test it with simulcraft or gearing a character and parsing it yourself.

LagunaD did the 1st method for Carnage/Combat and determined that somewhere around a 150 crit rating was optimal for the spec to the tune of about 1%.

I did the 2nd method, using Watchman and Combat specs and 2 different sets of gear. 1 set with 164 rating, another with 328 rating. 10 parses per set of gear per spec, 6 minutes each (40 6 minute parses). My results were even less definitive than Laguna's in Combat. 164 rating outperformed 328 by literally 3 DPS. In Watchman, my results were similar to Laguna's. 328 rating outperformed 164 by 1.25% (and my suspicion is a better Watchman player would narrow this already small gap).

So what does all that mean? Essentially, that the "sweet spot" for critical rating has such a trivial effect on overall DPS that for all intents and purposes there isn't one. My advice to gearing Sentinels now, given the massive amount of crit rating our gear comes with, is to simply lower their crit rating enough that it is out of significant DR range and re-mod from there (i.e. replace the high strength, low secondary stat mods and high endurance enhancements).

Unfortunately what this means is that, while not flat out incorrect, the guide is a little misleading.

 

There simply isn't a crit % chance "sweet spot" that you should be aiming for. It's an arbitrary number that fluctuates wildly based on your gear level. There can only logically be a critical rating sweet spot because that remains consistent no matter what your gear level.

 

Strength is better than power though, it's just not for that reason. As was stated, strength is better because its critical chance is on a separate DR curve and the amount of critical chance it provides is > the slightly more bonus damage that power provides. This will always be true regardless of your current critical chance with the gear that is in game at present.

 

 

As for critical rating, DR hits somewhere around a 300 rating (over 350 is where you'll probably start to notice it yourself). The only way to determine an actual "sweet spot" is through either using the math to extrapolate what the results of various crit ratings are likely to be, or to actually test it with simulcraft or gearing a character and parsing it yourself.

LagunaD did the 1st method for Carnage/Combat and determined that somewhere around a 150 crit rating was optimal for the spec to the tune of about 1%.

I did the 2nd method, using Watchman and Combat specs and 2 different sets of gear. 1 set with 164 rating, another with 328 rating. 10 parses per set of gear per spec, 6 minutes each (40 6 minute parses). My results were even less definitive than Laguna's in Combat. 164 rating outperformed 328 by literally 3 DPS. In Watchman, my results were similar to Laguna's. 328 rating outperformed 164 by 1.25% (and my suspicion is a better Watchman player would narrow this already small gap).

 

So what does all that mean? Essentially, that the "sweet spot" for critical rating has such a trivial effect on overall DPS that for all intents and purposes there isn't one. My advice to gearing Sentinels now, given the massive amount of crit rating our gear comes with, is to simply lower their crit rating enough that it is out of significant DR range and re-mod from there (i.e. replace the high strength, low secondary stat mods and high endurance enhancements).

All I'm getting out of this is that, while I'm not 100% correct, it doesn't matter either way.