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Planned Warzone Changes Part 2


EricMusco

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Hey folks,

 

Welcome to part 2 of our planned Warzone changes for GU 5.9.2. If you haven’t already done so, we recommend you go take a look at part 1 and our upcoming matchmaking changes. The following changes focus on Huttball and Arenas, so let’s dive in:

 

Huttball (and Queshball) – We have some concerns about the dominance of Classes with movement abilities in Huttball. The proposed changes will help encourage more teamplay in the Warzone. We also want to create more situations for counterplay and competition in Huttball while ensuring all players are rewarded for their efforts.

  • Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.
  • Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)
  • Players can no longer catch the Huttball while stunned. This creates more opportunities for counter-play, such as intercepting passes intended for a target you stun.
  • Adding attacker points for catching a pass from a friendly target:
    • Currently the thrower of the Huttball receives 500 points, but not the receiver. We will increase the receiver to gain 250 points.
    • We would also like a touchdown pass to award both players equally (currently the thrower gets 500 more points). Here is what the new breakdown would look like:
      • Thrower: 2750 Attacker Points total
        • 500 Attacker Points from completing pass successfully
        • 2250 Attacker Points for throwing a scoring pass

        [*]Receiver: 2750 Attacker Points total

        • 250 Attacker Points from receiving a friendly pass
        • 2500 Attacker Points for possessing the ball for a score

 

We know these changes will be pretty substantial in affecting how you play Huttball. Before we make these adjustments, we want to know your thoughts. We are getting your feedback early to see what changes we should, or should not make.

 

Arenas – There are quite a few places where players can exploit to prevent themselves from dying. We plan to address them and implement ways to penalize those players. Additionally, we wanted to take another look at how the acid mechanics work at the end of Arena matches to see if we can improve that experience for stalemates. Here are our thoughts:

  • Characters who hack their way into places they shouldn’t be, such as outside the arena or in the ground, will die.
  • Currently, acid causes characters to take 10% of their max health in damage every second, prevents stealth and all healing.
  • Acid will now work as follows:
    • Characters will take 1% of their max health in damage every second and reduce all healing done/received by 2% per stack.
    • Characters affected by acid will begin with one stack and gain one stack per second.
    • Acid will still inhibit stealth.

 

This will mean the very end of an Arena match will now get progressively more dangerous. This gives more time for players to fight each other and counterplay, before their inevitable acid death. This should also address cases where stealth characters in particular can just CC and run away to win a match.

 

Let us know your thoughts!

 

-eric

Edited by EricMusco
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[*]Acid will now work as follows:

  • Characters will take 1% of their max health in damage every second and reduce all healing done/received by 2% per stack.
  • Characters affected by acid will begin with one stack and gain one stack per second.
  • Acid will still inhibit stealth.

 

This will mean the very end of an Arena match will now get progressively more dangerous. This gives more time for players to fight each other and counterplay, before their inevitable acid death. This should also address cases where stealth characters in particular can just CC and run away to win a match.

 

Let us know your thoughts!

 

-eric

oh my god you guys actually did it

 

t h a n k y o u

h

a

n

k

y

o

u

 

these changes coming out are the best pvp patch notes since adding ranked

Edited by yellow_
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Characters who hack their way into places they shouldn’t be, such as outside the arena or in the ground, will die.

Currently, acid causes characters to take 10% of their max health in damage every second, prevents stealth and all healing.

Acid will now work as follows:

Characters will take 1% of their max health in damage every second and reduce all healing done/received by 2% per stack.

Characters affected by acid will begin with one stack and gain one stack per second.

Acid will still inhibit stealth.

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

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Wow, very interesting :) eager to see how the changes will impact the game. It’s all definately is giving us hope for better experience in war zones. Huttball will be interesting and vastly different.

 

Thanks for the info.

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  • Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.
  • Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)

Hmm. I like this maybe. How's that for commitment. As it stands, it's often lucky to get even 2 people on a team that actually play huttball. Which means that the movement abilities (or a tank/healer combo) are about the only way to score. On the other hand, I don't like the operative roll usage... so I guess I can't ask for that to be gone, but still have my phantom stride work (sometimes). :D

 

So, combined with more incentive to actually have people run ahead for a pass (see below also pls), I guess I like this.

 

  • Players can no longer catch the Huttball while stunned. This creates more opportunities for counter-play, such as intercepting passes intended for a target you stun.

I don't like this at all. With SO MANY stuns in the game, it seems like this will make it too easy for the other team to stop a pass chain. We can currently already use knockbacks to intercept, leaps and ports to intercept, and just plain being in a better position relative to the pass-circle. Making it too easy will further discourage passes, and I thought we wanted the opposite?

  • Adding attacker points for catching a pass from a friendly target:

This I LOVE. Might I suggest you actually make it equal to or even greater than the person that passes? Also, I think touchdown passes should award some sort of attacker points to everyone who touched the ball between the start of possession and the score. If I pick up the ball from spawn, pass to JOE on the bridge, and then JOE passes to JILL on the other side of the fire, and then JILL runs in for a score, I think JOE, JILL and myself should all get some sort of "touchdown" award.

 

Maybe that's hard to do. But it runs along the line of my thinking that huttball should award more for "assists" than it currently does. I think there are more, like a person who heals anyone while they have the ball, and then the team scores, that healer should get "touchdown" attacker points. Same for someone who tanks for the ball carriers. Others I understand would be much harder to detect... I think the person that roots/stuns a defender that was about to push the ball carrier into the fire should get some "assist" points too. No, I have no idea how the game would know that THAT particular stun was useful. :D

 

I don't particularly like arenas, and so don't have much of an opinion about how acid should work. :(

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Huttball (and Queshball) – We have some concerns about the dominance of Classes with movement abilities in Huttball. The proposed changes will help encourage more teamplay in the Warzone. We also want to create more situations for counterplay and competition in Huttball while ensuring all players are rewarded for their efforts.

[*]Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.

[*]Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)

[*]Players can no longer catch the Huttball while stunned. This creates more opportunities for counter-play, such as intercepting passes intended for a target you stun.

 

Not sure how I feel about this. These changes seem to make carrying the ball a real chore.

As for "Hinder," does it prevent Transcendence/Predation? Hold the Line/ Hydraulic Overrides? Sorc/ Sage pulls?

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Not sure how I feel about this. These changes seem to make carrying the ball a real chore.

As for "Hinder," does it prevent Transcendence/Predation? Hold the Line/ Hydraulic Overrides? Sorc/ Sage pulls?

 

"Hinder" should work just like electronet hinder. So im assuming if you cannot use something while neted it would be the same as holding the ball's hinder effect, I could be wrong about this but it would make sense. Hinder is already programmed as a debuff in the game.

 

So you will not be able to use pred (but you can be preded) and Overrides wont work. Sorc pulls should still work.

Edited by kissingaiur
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Quick back-of-the-hand calculation:

 

Add one stack per second.

Eat %1 damage per stack per second.

Assume both players start at 100%, one deals 5% damage and rolls away, de-syncs etc. to reduce incoming damage.

No offheals -> x seconds to live where 1+2+...+x = 95

=> x*(x+1)/2 = 95

=> x = 13.29..., have to round up => 14s to kill this person assuming he doesn't damage back.

 

A concealment oper can mitigate around 6-7s of your damage while damaging you in turn, so 1v1 he should do alright. +1v1 with de-syncs and mobility aciding multiple people could still be possible?

 

I guess we have to see how it will work, but a milder penalty might be more appropriate, like .5% HP loss per second.

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Love the changes to acid, and i believe it's one of the best changes so far aside from cross faction pvp.

The Huttball changes sound great, but as mentioned already, it can be hard to get everyone to participate more than less of the time so I hope that with these changes people start to play the way the game is intended. HUTTBALL! xD

 

One thing I ask is that the team re-examines the current elo system in solo ranked. There isn't enough players that participate to support the current values given and taken from wins and losses, and I believe a simple overhaul on the variable that decides how much is lost or gained would be a welcomed change.

 

As it works now, players are punished or rewarded based on current rating of themselves and other players on the team.

If MMR worked and teams consisted of the proper rating range this would be just fine. That isn't the case as most of the time you will see a 2k rated player paired with far lower rating players. Taking losses for 17 elo when winning a match grants 4-10 elo isn't a very rewarding system for any level of rating.

 

Possibly look at the variables that determine elo earned or lost, and make it more consistent with the amount of players who participate. xD

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Love the changes to acid, and i believe it's one of the best changes so far aside from cross faction pvp.

The Huttball changes sound great, but as mentioned already, it can be hard to get everyone to participate more than less of the time so I hope that with these changes people start to play the way the game is intended. HUTTBALL! xD

 

One thing I ask is that the team re-examines the current elo system in solo ranked. There isn't enough players that participate to support the current values given and taken from wins and losses, and I believe a simple overhaul on the variable that decides how much is lost or gained would be a welcomed change.

 

As it works now, players are punished or rewarded based on current rating of themselves and other players on the team.

If MMR worked and teams consisted of the proper rating range this would be just fine. That isn't the case as most of the time you will see a 2k rated player paired with far lower rating players. Taking losses for 17 elo when winning a match grants 4-10 elo isn't a very rewarding system for any level of rating.

 

Possibly look at the variables that determine elo earned or lost, and make it more consistent with the amount of players who participate. xD

 

if they implement cross faction in solo ranked more people will be put into the player pool, this could help even out the elo situation or at least help it.

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Huttball:

Not a huge fan of removing high mobility abilities from the ball carrier, but I'm willing to try it out. What about Predation though? I think it's unfair if that one still counts if you receive it from another player, maybe it just doesn't get applied to the ball carrier? And what about someone pulling the ball carrier? Can that still be done? I'm really not sure this is a good change, there's always a counter to the other team being faster/better at running the ball: control mid and deny them the ball in the first place. So I'm not sure why mobility is so "unfair" or whatever the complaints are.

 

Not sure about slowing the movement speed down more, especially since no mobility abilities. It's already slow. You're just making it so the tankiest player on the team is the best ball carrier instead of the most mobile. I'm not sure how that's any more fun. Doesn't this also mean it's going to be easier for PT's to pull them into fire?

 

I kind of like the not being able to catch the ball if stunned, but it might make passing way too risky. I'm willing to try that one out too, but not sure.

 

Arenas:

Love all the changes here.

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Hey folks,

 

  • Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.

 

This will make tanks with heals/pulls be the only meta available in huttball. At this point because of the different mobility options almost all dps classes have some way they can be a ball carrier. Without those mobility options no dps will be able to carry the ball more than a few yards before they are ganked and killed. I understand you want to encourage people to pass the ball more, but please remember this is not a ranked 8v8 match, these are random pugs without voice comms, the matches will only be that much harder for non premades, while premades with a tank/heals will still do the same thing that they did since 1.X, give the tank the ball and have him walk it in, or just walk over to a waiting stealther and pass up.

 

Snave's recommendation of a stacking healing debuff would be a much better incentive to get rid of the ball while still allowing dps ball carrier to get away to a place with some breathing room.

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Arena changes are good, huttball changes are horrible.

 

Can you add in an option to prevent other players from passing the ball to you?

 

Hinder prevents movement buffs, which in many cases prevent you from using dcds; picking up the huttball makes you a focus target, now you're going to be the focus target who won't have access to all of your dcds...

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Huttball:

Not a huge fan of removing high mobility abilities from the ball carrier, but I'm willing to try it out. What about Predation though? I think it's unfair if that one still counts if you receive it from another player, maybe it just doesn't get applied to the ball carrier? And what about someone pulling the ball carrier? Can that still be done? I'm really not sure this is a good change, there's always a counter to the other team being faster/better at running the ball: control mid and deny them the ball in the first place. So I'm not sure why mobility is so "unfair" or whatever the complaints are.

 

Not sure about slowing the movement speed down more, especially since no mobility abilities. It's already slow. You're just making it so the tankiest player on the team is the best ball carrier instead of the most mobile. I'm not sure how that's any more fun. Doesn't this also mean it's going to be easier for PT's to pull them into fire?

 

I kind of like the not being able to catch the ball if stunned, but it might make passing way too risky. I'm willing to try that one out too, but not sure.

 

Arenas:

Love all the changes here.

 

I think the point of these changes is to force people to not run the ball from middle to the finish line solo but actually PASS the ball like a game of hot potato. I personally like the changes because right now the game of huttball is so geared toward the comp of your group (and the enemy group) and how players use their movement abilities. These changes, even out the playing field. Instead of having classes like concealment operatives or jug tanks or mercs run the ball and are basically unstoppable, you the game more equal. It's going to be more about team play and passing/pulling then it will be about what class has the ball.

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I think the point of these changes is to force people to not run the ball from middle to the finish line solo but actually PASS the ball like a game of hot potato. I personally like the changes because right now the game of huttball is so geared toward the comp of your group (and the enemy group) and how players use their movement abilities. These changes, even out the playing field. Instead of having classes like concealment operatives or jug tanks or mercs run the ball and are basically unstoppable, you the game more equal. It's going to be more about team play and passing/pulling then it will be about what class has the ball.

 

I see what you mean and hopefully that is the case, but I'm just worried it's going to change out mobile classes as what's OP and move tanks/classes with enemy pulls/classes with friendly pulls to being OP. It just seems like it's shifting the meta instead of actually making it more equal. But I don't know, it's something I'd probably have to try out. I'm hoping there's a PTS for this stuff.

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I think the point of these changes is to force people to not run the ball from middle to the finish line solo but actually PASS the ball like a game of hot potato. I personally like the changes because right now the game of huttball is so geared toward the comp of your group (and the enemy group) and how players use their movement abilities. These changes, even out the playing field. Instead of having classes like concealment operatives or jug tanks or mercs run the ball and are basically unstoppable, you the game more equal. It's going to be more about team play and passing/pulling then it will be about what class has the ball.

 

This might work in a coordinated pre-made, but in the average match people are going to very quickly figure out that picking up the huttball = instant death.

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I really dont like the Hinder on the ball carrrier. Sure it does anger me when the team gets a combination of 2 operatives who are able to score 6 points in a matter of seconds, but please consider this also with the changes you are implementing for matchmaking.

 

This will cause the tank to be the main ball carrier for both teams. The match will be quite a stalemate. I know how it is when the team has 1 tank and 2 heals, no one dies and the only thing that helps is roots, stuns, pulls. The tank will never pass the ball, as there will be little point since the catcher will be focused and dies. So with the matchmaking the team will depend too much on the healer and tank in team.

 

Currently huttball is a display of knowing the class tricks, the map and defensives. Yes some classes are better off, yet if it were up to me I would leave Huttball as it is! Lets simply see what the improved matchmaking does to it.

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I think the point of these changes is to force people to not run the ball from middle to the finish line solo but actually PASS the ball like a game of hot potato. I personally like the changes because right now the game of huttball is so geared toward the comp of your group (and the enemy group) and how players use their movement abilities. These changes, even out the playing field. Instead of having classes like concealment operatives or jug tanks or mercs run the ball and are basically unstoppable, you the game more equal. It's going to be more about team play and passing/pulling then it will be about what class has the ball.

 

The problem will be that everyone who gets the ball will be a sitting duck. He wont be able to leap, run, stride, but others will get to him fast and kill him. This will cause the carrier to be always the tank (thanks to new matchmaking).

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  • Acid will now work as follows:
    • Characters will take 1% of their max health in damage every second and reduce all healing done/received by 2% per stack.
    • Characters affected by acid will begin with one stack and gain one stack per second.
    • Acid will still inhibit stealth.

 

Well not sure how this will look in the game but if you still give an operative, merc or sorc a chance to heal in the end, its not good.... Imagine that the end fight will be an operative vs a sentinel, no chance.

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Hey folks,

 

 

Arenas – There are quite a few places where players can exploit to prevent themselves from dying. We plan to address them and implement ways to penalize those players.

  • Characters who hack their way into places they shouldn’t be, such as outside the arena or in the ground, will die.

Let us know your thoughts!

 

-eric

 

Well... This is fine, like very good tbh.

Although I would love if you could comment on some issues some class (Operative/Scoundrel and Shadow/Assassin) have with that. There is a very, very inconvenient bug with the "dash" move on these class. If you don't already know, there is a 80% chance that if the target of -let's say your Phantom Stride- is either on a different plane or if there is a tiny rock in the way between you and him... Well the Stride just won't work. This is bad, especially in PvP. Sometimes you won't move at all after using the ability. Sometime you'll stop halfway and... sometimes you'll get teleported somewhere else entirely. This includes (but isn't limited to) outside of the map.

 

I can't say I approve these changes if you don't fix those abilities. This has been an issue since they were released and is really impactfull in a PvP Match (in ranked especially. Dying outside of the map because Stride or Holotraverse isn't working properly IS NOT good thing :) ).

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