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The Expertise stat has to go...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Expertise stat has to go...

Antiks's Avatar


Antiks
01.23.2012 , 03:30 AM | #751
No it doesn't. If it does PvE players will have the upperhand vs. people who PvP most of their time. That is stupid.
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine.

Rackiera's Avatar


Rackiera
01.23.2012 , 03:31 AM | #752
Expertise gives about a 10-12% difference at most.

Has anyone actually taken full set of PVE Tier 1 gear and listed the stats and then a full set of PVP Tier 1 and listed the stats.

Try it you will notice something..
JUST FIGHT !!

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
01.23.2012 , 03:35 AM | #753
Quote: Originally Posted by Rackiera View Post
Expertise gives about a 10-12% difference at most.

Has anyone actually taken full set of PVE Tier 1 gear and listed the stats and then a full set of PVP Tier 1 and listed the stats.

Try it you will notice something..
I compared Rakata and Battlemaster (top PvE versus top PvP0, and the difference seems to be +10 endurance +20 primary stats -50 Expertise on each piece. Rakata and BM have identical armor/weapon rating and secondary stats. I assume the other comparable sete follow the same pattern. To put things in perspective, most BM DPS will have about 16-17K HP. 50 Expertise is basically 1% modifier. So 1% damage taken is roughly like 160-170 HP compared to 10 endurance = 100 HP. I have no idea how to estimate 20 primary stats, but it's worth about 0.15% crit before considering the damage/heal it adds to. Of course 1% PvP bonus > 20 primary stats, but again it's not that much more.

This means if there is no Expertise, people would be complaining about the guys in full Rakata rolling them instead.

DuriZap's Avatar


DuriZap
01.23.2012 , 03:46 AM | #754
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
I compared Rakata and Battlemaster (top PvE versus top PvP0, and the difference seems to be +10 endurance +20 primary stats -50 Expertise on each piece. Rakata and BM have identical armor/weapon rating and secondary stats. I assume the other comparable sete follow the same pattern. To put things in perspective, most BM DPS will have about 16-17K HP. 50 Expertise is basically 1% modifier. So 1% damage taken is roughly like 160-170 HP compared to 10 endurance = 100 HP. I have no idea how to estimate 20 primary stats, but it's worth about 0.15% crit before considering the damage/heal it adds to. Of course 1% PvP bonus > 20 primary stats, but again it's not that much more.

This means if there is no Expertise, people would be complaining about the guys in full Rakata rolling them instead.
Replace the stat with a normal stat. Simple solution instead of this silly comparisson, with a just as silly conclussion.

Aritok's Avatar


Aritok
01.23.2012 , 03:46 AM | #755
Even though i agree that it sucks as a fresh level 50 getting ganked up by all full PVP geared player, the Expertise has to be as it is.

You have to seperate PVP and PVE in this way, or you get a mess.

If you make PVP and PVE gear equal, there would be no reason for raiding anymore at all. Killing one whole part of the game. End result = bad.
If PVE gear is better than PVP gear, these who PVE will dominate over PVPers. Bad as well.

There has to be a stat that seperates PVE and PVP from each other.


But i do agree that there has to be something done about these Valor 1 Level 50 playing aganst Valor 60 Level 50.
Not only is it really frustrating to lose all the time to catch up the gear, but it also ruin the game for 7 other in your team, that you dammed to lose with you.

Player of equal Valor should be paired. But this will currently not work, especially not on the newer Servers. There are just not enough player around for it.
It only works via cross server queue.

After this, the only player, who have a problem, are these who level from 1-50 only with PVP. They will have a high Valor when reaching Level 50, but missing the PVP gear for it. For these there should be Expertise added to the level 40 gear. Or adding a crafable Mod for PVP with Expertise on it.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
01.23.2012 , 03:48 AM | #756
Quote: Originally Posted by DuriZap View Post
Replace the stat with a normal stat. Simple solution instead of this silly comparisson, with a just as silly conclussion.
BM gear is itemized the same level as Rakata, so if Expertise didn't exist they'd be exactly the same as Rakata. You'd still be getting rolled by someone wearing Rakata gear as a fresh level 50.

Kemorand's Avatar


Kemorand
01.23.2012 , 03:52 AM | #757
Quote: Originally Posted by Rackiera View Post
Expertise gives about a 10-12% difference at most.

Has anyone actually taken full set of PVE Tier 1 gear and listed the stats and then a full set of PVP Tier 1 and listed the stats.

Try it you will notice something..
Thing is, you don't need to do anything but have the time for it to get PvP gear, just show up in WZ, lose or win couple hundred times and whatnot. No matter what, you WILL end up with that neat purple stuff (well, unless you're REALLY unlucky on bags and stuff, but same goes on for loot tables). Queue up, rack in, queue up, rack in. There is no downside: you got the time, they got your loot, guaranteed.

PvE gear however, you need to organize people, get them to an operation or run flashpoints, actually put effort into running these and hope you can do it (you don't get ANYTHING if you lose, unlike PvP), then you're locked out so you have to wait a day or a week, then do that AGAIN, for a long, long time. I mean, that can take months even if you succeed all the time.

So, apart from the pure PvE "challenge" of it, or someone playing couple hours a week and just running ops, PvP is the way to go to gear up, even if you lose all the time since you still get something, all the time and it's repeatable ad vitam.

Why do you think nearly every single 50 out there is in PvP gear? Heck, on my server, there's barely anyone doing HMs, nobody ever going into operations. They just semi-afk on the fleet or on Ilum near boxes, pop into WZ, do whatever, rack in, and repeat. For the very few doing HMs, they are already in nearly full purple PvP gear so go and explain them what's the point




As for the expertise stats...it's just like all stats and gear. The more you have, the more potential you have. That's part of the RPG systems kinda. If it's not expertise, it's gonna be more crit, or HP, or power, or whatever. Doesn't mean it's a 100% auto win. It's just a helper.

Airoper's Avatar


Airoper
01.23.2012 , 03:54 AM | #758
you should be rewarded for time invested not what area it was invested in gear should be cross compatible if your earned the gear i say you should beable to use it in what ever toy like not forced to split the community for the sake of making people farm 2 lots of gear!

teyngodown's Avatar


teyngodown
01.23.2012 , 04:13 AM | #759
Quote: Originally Posted by Rackiera View Post
Expertise gives about a 10-12% difference at most.

Has anyone actually taken full set of PVE Tier 1 gear and listed the stats and then a full set of PVP Tier 1 and listed the stats.

Try it you will notice something..
just did this on Torhead and here's the stats

Total stats for Battlemaster Eliminator set

Aim: 858
Endurance: 910
Crit: 206
Accuracy: 306
Power: 187
Surge: 102
Expertise: 602


Total stats for Rakata Eliminator set

Aim: 1059 19% higher than BM
Endurance: 1157 22% higher than BM
Crit: 206
Accuracy: 306
Power: 187
Surge: 102

these sets are with 2x relics 2x implants and earpiece from respected sets. I picked the +77 endurance rakata relics instead of the endurance/power ones simply to keep secondary stats identical.

sauna's Avatar


sauna
01.23.2012 , 04:14 AM | #760
Quote: Originally Posted by uhhhhahhhhohahh View Post
It's honestly unimaginable to even begin to hope to understand what anyone was thinking when they thought putting Expertise into the game would be a good idea.
I wholeheartedly agree. It isn't needed and it does nothing to actually improve ANY MMO-game.

Looking at WoW when you create a pvp-system is really like looking at a LeCar when you're trying to build a Ferrarri.
Instead, hire people that actually know something about having a successful PvP-system. Early DAoC, UO, Darkfall-devs for example.

BW: We know you don't actually care about the PvP. If you did you would have put some work into it instead of these half-assed and derelict shortcuts. I'm of course talking about the tears-in-your-eyes piece of crap World PvP and instanced yay-I'm-grinding-like-a-korean Warzones.
Get someone with vision and creativity.

Why did people play year in and year out of only PvP'ing in DAoC, e.g.? It was fun as hell, competitive, rewarding no matter if you played premade groups or just zerged keeps and it had MEANING!

/sighs
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