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The Expertise stat has to go...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Expertise stat has to go...

Kryptorchid's Avatar


Kryptorchid
01.06.2012 , 01:14 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by Voradoor View Post
In a way you are correct, but you also forget a full maxed out toon will not be in every BG.
Why you ask? well in a few months when your well geared you simply dont que as often or que on an alt that needs gear.
Same as in "WoW" you get geared and your que grinding becomes alot less, its just the natural flow of things.

So you remove the stat and people just do PVE and once in while pvp when they feel like it.
Ether way pvp que numbers drop if you do not reward people for it.
On the flip you make pvp gear the same as pve and people do what ever is the easier of the two and stomp the other one with their "easy mode" gear.
you NEED a way to keep the two seprate, I've seen it before with HW/GM gear and with BWL gear.
First Paragraph -- This is only true if your reason for PvPing is to get geaerd. A lot of people attempt to PvP for PvP's sake. It is true that their may or may not be fully geared opponents, I will adjust my analogy to having a Random Boss Generator for that fresh PvEer to face that can range from a normal FP boss to a Hardmode Op boss.

If a player stops PvPing to PvE because the gear in PvP is equivalent to PvE gear, then I say "mission accomplished." If your only motive to PvP is to get gear so you can rolfstomp undergeared players, and not because you enjoy testing yourself against others, then I don't think a PvP system should cater to you if you are that fickle.

AMKSED's Avatar


AMKSED
01.06.2012 , 01:14 PM | #252
I don't want to PvE to have to get the best gear for PvP. I'm not going to complain that people who PvE have a better gear when it comes to PvE so they shouldn't complain that since I worked for my PvP gear of course I'm going to have the edge in PvP.


Good job Bioware, don't listen to these people who have no idea what they're talking about.

Kryptorchid's Avatar


Kryptorchid
01.06.2012 , 01:16 PM | #253
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhinoplat View Post
I think you have it backwards. If Expertise was removed, then the Raiders would have the best dropped gear in the game. Removing Expertise would for PvPers to have to Raid in order to stay competitive in the Warzones.

Adding Expertise gives PvPers an advantage in Warzones over Raiders. When raiding, Raiders have an advantage over PvPers because the Rakata gear is statistically better for Raiding. At least this is how it's supposed to work.

But you have those players who have 2 sets of gear - 1 for raiding, 1 for PvP. So for the small minority that are already committing time to getting 2 sets of gear there is no difference for them if Expertise was dropped from gear. Since the small minority will always be the more serious about both Raiding and PvP you might as well drop Expertise from Gear.

I agree with the Op and think he makes some very valid points.
I just want to point this out...

No one has been advocating that Raid gear would have better stats for PvP than PvP gear -- PvP and PvE gear would have identical stats for PvP.
Quote: Originally Posted by AMKSED View Post
I don't want to PvE to have to get the best gear for PvP. I'm not going to complain that people who PvE have a better gear when it comes to PvE so they shouldn't complain that since I worked for my PvP gear of course I'm going to have the edge in PvP.


Good job Bioware, don't listen to these people who have no idea what they're talking about.
Again...

No one has been advocating that Raid gear would have better stats for PvP than PvP gear -- PvP and PvE gear would have identical stats for PvP.

Rhinoplat's Avatar


Rhinoplat
01.06.2012 , 01:19 PM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by Seronimos View Post
i dont know if this was said before: The only ppl wich profit from expertise are healers

example everyone in the warzone has 10% expertise, that means 10% more dmg, 10% less incoming dmg wich means its the same without expertise.. bbut now the healers always have 10% more heal wich dont get reduced somehow

sry for my bad english its not my first language
But PvPers have an advantage over Raiders who don't change their gear for PvP gear. So a level 50 in pure PvP gear is going to have a damage advantage over a level 50 in pure Rakata gear.

There are small advantages for wearing PvP gear. This system is rather balanced if you have 2 different players that want to casually enjoy the other system. Where this whole system is broken down is when you have 1 person that uses 2 sets of gear, 1 for Raids (Rakata) 1 for PvP (BattleMaster). Since you already have players like that, which are switching out gear - the Expertise system is broke.

Quote:
Looking at the raw stats, it seems to me PvP gear is one tier below PvE for purpose of PvE, and PvP gear is one tier above PvE for purpose of PvP. I can't say for sure if that's how it exactly works out without crunching all the numbers, but it's at least a reasonable model. It's not like the PvP gear is +5 endurance + 5 crit + 100 expertise. They do have a respectable amount of base stats even without the expertise. They're obviously not as good as equal tier PvE gear for PvE, but this statement is also true in reverse (equal tier PvE gear not as good as PvP for PvP).
This is working as intended. PvP gear should be better for PvP, but not as good in Raids as the Rakata gear, the other way around for PvE gear. But when you have 1 person using both sets of gear the system gets broke, since PvPers are no longer getting an advantage over PvErs using their Rakata gear (because they are switching to BattleMaster gear).

Rhinoplat's Avatar


Rhinoplat
01.06.2012 , 01:22 PM | #255
Quote: Originally Posted by Kryptorchid View Post
I just want to point this out...

No one has been advocating that Raid gear would have better stats for PvP than PvP gear -- PvP and PvE gear would have identical stats for PvP.


Again...

No one has been advocating that Raid gear would have better stats for PvP than PvP gear -- PvP and PvE gear would have identical stats for PvP.
That's exactly the point. If you drop Expertise from gear then there is no need for PvPers to PvP for gear. BioWare isn't going to drop Expertise from PvP gear and bump their stats, forcing PvErs to PvP to quickly get their PvE gear.

BioWare would drop the Expertise while keeping the same stats, thus forcing PvPers to Raid for the best gear in game. If they don't do this, then yes Raiders would look to PvP to get their gear because it would be a quicker route to gear up for end game raids.

If you are asking for Expertise to be dropped then you need to realize the PvP gear would not have equal stats to the PvE gear.

LaManoNera's Avatar


LaManoNera
01.06.2012 , 01:23 PM | #256
It's called a "grind".

It's how developers think people are kept playing an MMO.
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Kryptorchid's Avatar


Kryptorchid
01.06.2012 , 01:41 PM | #257
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhinoplat View Post
That's exactly the point. If you drop Expertise from gear then there is no need for PvPers to PvP for gear. BioWare isn't going to drop Expertise from PvP gear and bump their stats, forcing PvErs to PvP to quickly get their PvE gear.

BioWare would drop the Expertise while keeping the same stats, thus forcing PvPers to Raid for the best gear in game. If they don't do this, then yes Raiders would look to PvP to get their gear because it would be a quicker route to gear up for end game raids.

If you are asking for Expertise to be dropped then you need to realize the PvP gear would not have equal stats to the PvE gear.
How hard is it to realize I am not talking about a simple "remove Expertise from the game" fix. I have posted this several times in this thread, but you gave me the idea to consolidate this. The "complete" fix IMO would be the following.

1. Make "Universal Stats" (Aim, Endurance, Crit, Surge, etc., any stat that works in PvP and PvE is what I will call "universal") identical for the first Tier epic PvP and PvE equipment. This means:

2. Remove Expertise as a PvP stat and make it a PvE stat. Expertise would increase your Damage, Healing Done, and Defense by X% when you are in a Flashpoint or Operation. Now apply the *new* Expertise to the first top-tier PvE gear.

This gives you the following for the top-tier PvP and PvE gear:

Tier 1 PvP Chest:
+100 Aim
+100 Endurance
+75 Crit
+25 Surge

Tier 1 PvE Chest:
+100 Aim
+100 Endurance
+75 Crit
+25 Surge
+50 *new* Expertise

Now players in the best PvP gear and the best PvE gear will have the same "Universal Stats" and thus no statistical advantage in PvP.

For the next tier, "universal stats" remain unchanged; however, the PvP gear has a new aesthetic design and the PvE gear increases its *new* Expertise stat. This means come tier 2, a tier 1 PvE/PvP geared player will have the same stats as a Tier2 PvP/PvE geared player in PvP, but PvE gear can still increase in power for Flashpoints and Operations, keeping the same exact progression model that is currently in the game for PvE.

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
01.06.2012 , 01:45 PM | #258
PvP gear is extreamly easy to get if you pvp regualry, even if you lose most of the time your going to have most of your pieces within a couple weeks

Whats going to ruin PvP is Sages and Sorcerers healing for 400k+, they need to be tweak so there more in line with BH and Agent healers...
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

solidsheep's Avatar


solidsheep
01.06.2012 , 01:46 PM | #259
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zAsX_HA6lM

I'm sorry but I am almost positive more then half of you want expertise removed for this alone.

Kryptorchid's Avatar


Kryptorchid
01.06.2012 , 01:52 PM | #260
Quote: Originally Posted by solidsheep View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zAsX_HA6lM

I'm sorry but I am almost positive more then half of you want expertise removed for this alone.
You do realize that is precisely what Expertise causes in the case of a level 50 with Expertise vs. a level 49.