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The Expertise stat has to go...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Expertise stat has to go...

Gazarg's Avatar


Gazarg
01.27.2012 , 01:33 AM | #1231
What I don't get is why doesn't expertise only make you get damage reduction in PvP only. Why does it also boost damage? That seems a bit outrageous to me. Does PvE gear do that too for when you fight mobs?
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ryantp's Avatar


ryantp
01.27.2012 , 01:40 AM | #1232
*********** genius.

I thought it was stupid in WoW.

I thought it was stupid in Rift.

same holds true for TOR.

There is no point to this attribute other than to grief new PVPers.

Yggel's Avatar


Yggel
01.27.2012 , 02:05 AM | #1233
Quote: Originally Posted by Gazarg View Post
What I don't get is why doesn't expertise only make you get damage reduction in PvP only. Why does it also boost damage? That seems a bit outrageous to me. Does PvE gear do that too for when you fight mobs?
It does in a way, since you get more base stats on the pve gear.
Also I believe the reason you get damage and damage reduction is so they cancel each other out,
when facing an equally geared opponents, while still seperating the PvE and PvP progression paths.

dannythefool's Avatar


dannythefool
01.27.2012 , 02:12 AM | #1234
Quote: Originally Posted by ryantp View Post
There is no point to this attribute other than to grief new PVPers.
Well, if you remove it then one of two things is going to happen

Either 1) PVE gear will beat everything PVP players have, so players who don't like the PVE endgame will be forced to still go through it to gear up for PVP,
Or 2) PVP gear will beat PVE gear in PVE, annoying the PVE players who suddenly see PVP players being more sought after for their ops than longtime PVE players.

moneky's Avatar


moneky
01.27.2012 , 02:29 AM | #1235
Problem I see with most new 50's is that they're running around in level 40 PVE gear which gives them 10-12k HP TOTAL think about it. Gear up, buy some mods with credits, get some relics hotkey all your skills get at least 14k hp. When my friend and I hit 50 we were wondering why we were getting smashed so hard and doing so little damage, turns out we weren't geared at all and used pve bindings for PVP. After gearing up we did significantly better. Expertise is part of the problem but so is the majority of the players using level 40 gear thinking they were going to get bolstered. Nope.

Izmaeth's Avatar


Izmaeth
01.27.2012 , 03:10 AM | #1236
Quote: Originally Posted by dannythefool View Post
Well, if you remove it then one of two things is going to happen

Either 1) PVE gear will beat everything PVP players have, so players who don't like the PVE endgame will be forced to still go through it to gear up for PVP,
Or 2) PVP gear will beat PVE gear in PVE, annoying the PVE players who suddenly see PVP players being more sought after for their ops than longtime PVE players.
I totally agree with you. We need pvp stat to let people play like they want to. However current solution has serious flaws and should be fixed. Basically we need expertise but at the same time gear progression needs to be toned down. All the details were written in this topic: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=238982

Sky_walkerPL's Avatar


Sky_walkerPL
01.27.2012 , 03:25 AM | #1237
Quote: Originally Posted by thepilk View Post
This is wrong because expertise scales better than those other stats.

point by point itd take hundreds of points of your primary stat to get the flat % damage boost granted by Expertise. 500 expertise gives the kind of damage that itd take thousands of points of other stats to compensate for. It also is the only stat to boost damage AND damage reduction by those high ammounts. just because columni has higher "normal" stats doesnt mean its giving the same effects..anything without expertise is weak in endgame pvp.
This.

Expertize has to go.
But by the time PvP gear progression needs to be made much more time-taking (preferably to be longer than PvE progression, but not requiring big team of players, so progress for solo players would still exist at lvl50 just as it does at 1-49), and PvP gear needs to have stats equal to PvE gear (maybe few points here / there difference to make it bit more than just a copy&paste with different skin, eg. PvE gear is 4-5 points better in defense, PvP is 4-5 points better in offense) and less skins to choose from (yes, that's a request: add more varied skins for PvE gear, cause this columi & rakata-being-copy-of-columi gear is... simply put: ugly).
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SwissTony's Avatar


SwissTony
01.27.2012 , 04:06 AM | #1238
Quote: Originally Posted by Fujitasix View Post
I'd love to see an MMO offer incentives that are only usable OUTSIDE the PvP zones and everyone is given equal item level basic sets inside it. No more hamster wheel for a PvP stat, instead it rewards coin and gear usable for PvE, crafting mats, speeders, fluff gear, achievements that mean something because it was as fair as possible, etc.

Put the rewards on the outside, put the balance and fair play on the inside. There's your "bolster" system.

I have 300+ expertise and rank 48 atm - I'm not speaking from the bottom end of the pile here.
^^This in every way!

I was a duel wielding warrior in Rift...the valour rating made me simply unkillable 1 v 1 against a lower valour player. I will, however, caveat that the expertise cap of 10% doesn't make "that" much of a difference in this game.

Although this isn't meant to be a "rock-paper-scissors" style game (ala Warhammer), we all know that some classes are considerably tougher (and some considerably easier) than others 1 v 1.

Just my 2 cents...

Madwooki's Avatar


Madwooki
01.27.2012 , 04:23 AM | #1239
Expertise only widens the gap for new level 50 players and discourages fresh 50s to pvp.
The game is just over 1 and half months since official release and the gear gap is insane already. This should not happen in any mmo. KIlls the incentive to reach 50 and continue.
Same thing happened in warhammer and we know how that panned out.

Almghty_gir's Avatar


Almghty_gir
01.27.2012 , 04:44 AM | #1240
using the tool i made here:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=240685

to see the difference in damage between two people, where one has expertise and the other doesn't, input the same offensive stats on both set one and two, then input an expertise amount (500 is a good average) into the offensive stats of set one, and the defensive stats of set two.

in my example, both have:
1200 primary stat (strength/aim/willpower/cunning)
600 force/tech
600 power
250 crit rating
100 surge rating
100 accuracy
306-459 weapon damage

both hitting the same defence values:
4000 armour

the guy with expertise hits for 1254 damage per second
the guy without expertise hits for 1022 damage per second

that's per second, not per ability use, so the damage on individual abilities is actually inflated beyond that value. it also means that the actual difference in damage is 464 per second, so the guy without expertise is going to be burned down a lot quicker.

here's the thing though, the majority of fresh 50's won't have anywhere near equal stats to the guy with 500 expertise, so the difference in damage per second is likely to be a lot higher.

FYI, i'm running almost 600 expertise, and it's VERY obvious to me when i'm hitting someone who has none. it's like a hot knife through butter... and i'm tank spec lol.
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