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Blackout's 25% aren't showing up in character pane?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Blackout's 25% aren't showing up in character pane?

MEdiKLEZ's Avatar


MEdiKLEZ
08.07.2014 , 03:03 PM | #1
"Masked assault" of the infiltration tree states that it would add 25% dmg reduction for 6 seconds when not cloaked to the ability "Blackout" but when I open character pane to check that effect after I activated Blackout without stealth nothing seems to change!

I did the same with the ability "Deflection" which shows up in the character pane under defense when activated!

I wanna know if it is beneficial to use both at the same time?

Adovir's Avatar


Adovir
08.07.2014 , 03:06 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by MEdiKLEZ View Post
"Masked assault" of the infiltration tree states that it would add 25% dmg reduction for 6 seconds when not cloaked to the ability "Blackout" but when I open character pane to check that effect after I activated Blackout without stealth nothing seems to change!

I did the same with the ability "Deflection" which shows up in the character pane under defense when activated!

I wanna know if it is beneficial to use both at the same time?
Deflection is 50% melee ranged defense chance not damage reduction
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JMagee's Avatar


JMagee
08.07.2014 , 03:12 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by MEdiKLEZ View Post
"Masked assault" of the infiltration tree states that it would add 25% dmg reduction for 6 seconds when not cloaked to the ability "Blackout" but when I open character pane to check that effect after I activated Blackout without stealth nothing seems to change!

I did the same with the ability "Deflection" which shows up in the character pane under defense when activated!

I wanna know if it is beneficial to use both at the same time?
In direct answer to your question, it can be beneficial to use them at the same time.

However,

Deflection provides a boost to Melee/Ranged Defense which is different than Damage Reduction. Defense against melee/ranged (white damage) Things like Hammer Shot, Saber strike, HiB, Master Strike, etc. Things that aren't Force/Tech (yellow damage).

On top of that, Defense is a dodge roll. increasing defense by 50 gives you a 50% higher chance to "miss". If the attack does not miss, then it is affected by your damage reduction. So as you can see, they are two different means of taking less damage, that do "stack", but are useful in different types of situations. If you are taking a lot of white damage, and dodging more than 50% of it, then it is a bit of a waste to activate a DR DCD as well, since most of the attacks will not be doing damage.

Hope that helps.

As far as the display issue, do not know if it is a bug or not/

Ridickilis's Avatar


Ridickilis
08.07.2014 , 03:20 PM | #4
^^^all of that and

Quote: Originally Posted by JMagee View Post
As far as the display issue, do not know if it is a bug or not/
I don't think it's a bug. I'm pretty sure none of the classes DR abilities show on character sheets nor does DR stack upon each other, it will go through each one separately. Say you had a 20% elemental DR, then you pop this for 25%, you won't get 45% DR. Rather, the attack would first goes through the 25% and then the difference goes through the 20% (or the other way around). But they don't stack on top of each other like that.

So an elemental hit for 1000 - 25% = 750. Then the 750 - 20% = 600 (for a net of 40% DR). I think it was Keyboardninja who posted mathy tables on this, probably in the tanking forum somewhere.

MEdiKLEZ's Avatar


MEdiKLEZ
08.07.2014 , 04:23 PM | #5
thanks for all your answers! I'm more of an MMO casual and find all that juggling with stats and effects confusing at times but your answers helped me out so thanks again !!

Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
08.09.2014 , 07:49 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by MEdiKLEZ View Post
"Masked assault" of the infiltration tree states that it would add 25% dmg reduction for 6 seconds when not cloaked to the ability "Blackout" but when I open character pane to check that effect after I activated Blackout without stealth nothing seems to change!

I did the same with the ability "Deflection" which shows up in the character pane under defense when activated!

I wanna know if it is beneficial to use both at the same time?
I see some confusion in this thread, so I'm going to clarify a few things for you guys.

Blackout doesn't increase damage reduction by 25%. Instead, it reduces damage taken by 25%. As such, it does not show up as extra DR on your character sheet, but it does indeed work (this happens with a number of talents in numerous skill trees in the game, we're not special). Now, as a dps, even if you take the armor increase and DR talents available to you, you won't get much over 20% DR on your character sheet against attacks that do kinetic/energy damage. You'll have even less against internal/elemental, but so does everyone else. Anyway, the difference between reducing damage taken and increasing damage reduction is in how the damage calculation is performed.

If Masked Assault increased DR by 25%, you would go from 80% damage taken to 55% damage taken, meaning you will take 31.25% reduced damage over what you were taking before. For example: a 5,000 damage hit, after 20% DR, would do 4,000 damage, but with the 25% increased DR, would deal 2,750 damage. However, Masked Assault reduces damage taken by 25%, and so you reduce that 4,000 damage you would take by 25%, meaning you take 3,000 damage instead. As you can see, it's not as powerful as the DR increase in this case. The case for internal/elemental, however, is different. You max out at 12% internal/elemental DR (2% talent from Balance tree + 10% base), which means that 5,000 damage hit would be 4,400 damage after your base DR, 3,150 with a 25% DR increase, and 3,300 with the 25% decreased damage taken.

As you can see, for your purposes as a dps, Blackout's damage taken reduction is always going to be strictly worse than if it increased your DR. However, that's not to say it's bad, as it is actually very strong, and prevents a lot of damage taken. As has been said before, it's a bit of a waste to activate it at the same time as Deflection, as they reduce each others effectiveness, though the effects do stack. As was said before: if you're going to be taking a lot of melee/ranged damage (Carnage Marauder, Marksmanship Sniper, packs of adds, certain bosses, etc.), use Deflection. If it's going to be a lot of force/tech damage (Madness Sorcerer, Lethality Sniper/Operative, special boss attacks, special champion attacks), Blackout (after Resilience, of course) is the way to go. For mixed cases, you'll want Blackout as well (Madness Assassins, Annihilation Marauders, Arsenal Mercenaries, many Oricon Champions).
Dulfy Guides: Hatred, Serenity, Darkness, Kinetic Combat
Ellendra - Death MarkExit Area - Theraton
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TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
08.09.2014 , 08:01 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelanis View Post
As you can see, for your purposes as a dps, Blackout's damage taken reduction is always going to be strictly worse than if it increased your DR. However, that's not to say it's bad, as it is actually very strong, and prevents a lot of damage taken. As has been said before, it's a bit of a waste to activate it at the same time as Deflection, as they reduce each others effectiveness, though the effects do stack. As was said before: if you're going to be taking a lot of melee/ranged damage (Carnage Marauder, Marksmanship Sniper, packs of adds, certain bosses, etc.), use Deflection. If it's going to be a lot of force/tech damage (Madness Sorcerer, Lethality Sniper/Operative, special boss attacks, special champion attacks), Blackout (after Resilience, of course) is the way to go. For mixed cases, you'll want Blackout as well (Madness Assassins, Annihilation Marauders, Arsenal Mercenaries, many Oricon Champions).
I always thought the best response to force/tech was Resiliance :P

Anyway, isn't Internal/Elemental damage capped at 18% for infiltration?
(10% base, 2% from balance tree if you are willing to sacrifice damage for it, 6% from kinetic field)
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
08.10.2014 , 10:51 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
I always thought the best response to force/tech was Resiliance :P

Anyway, isn't Internal/Elemental damage capped at 18% for infiltration?
(10% base, 2% from balance tree if you are willing to sacrifice damage for it, 6% from kinetic field)
Forgot the Kinetic Field. Regardless, what I said stands. I would also save Resilience for when I see a big attack coming or to purge myself of a host of dot effects. In these cases, if you know a bunch of force attacks are coming and you need to save Resilience, Blackout is a nice alternative.
Dulfy Guides: Hatred, Serenity, Darkness, Kinetic Combat
Ellendra - Death MarkExit Area - Theraton
The Shadowlands