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Shadow PVP....?


Jesmcalli's Avatar


Jesmcalli
01.07.2012 , 02:09 AM | #1
I am positing this question, not as a QQ, but as a genuine question. What, exactly is the purpose of Shadows in PVP? As Infiltration spec, we don't hit nearly as hard as the Ops/Scoundrels I've seen. We don't last as long outside of stealth as other melee. I try and go after healers or ranged standing the outskirts of a fight, if anything to keep them from healing/turreting. However, many healers can outlast my burst and buy enough time to get help ( or their team is on the ball with peeling for them), and ranged specs, like many classes, have CC aplenty to keep me outside of my 4 meter sweetspot. I can kick casts, use stuns, keep them snared, but it's all for naught as I don't really have the damage to put them down/apply pressure.

I'm a sliver from 50. At this point, compared to other classes, Shadows feel pretty underwhelming. Any thoughts, tips, advice?

Bergitor's Avatar


Bergitor
01.07.2012 , 02:19 AM | #2
I generally have felt the same. I'm a new born 50, got one piece of champion gear and some high level mods in my orange gear. I DO NOT burst well. I find that I'm better at sustained DPS, which is not something PvP is condusive to.

That being said, when I play with two other guildies (a healer and a scoundrel) I drop into force technique (defensive stance ) and shield the scoundrel. The healer and I then do our darndest to keep the scoundrel up. Since he's doing the dps.

I've had some excellent fights in Alderran doing this. I love the synergy implied with the abilities. Though singularly I am not a threat to anyone. Mostly just a huge annoyance.

NO_Walking's Avatar


NO_Walking
01.07.2012 , 03:09 AM | #3
Stealth capping objectives
Use your knockdown
Backstab gives me 3.7k crits
clairvoyant strike UPS your Dps a ton
12 second slow

Sorry, but I pwn in pvp. 1v1 I can kill mostly anyone my level. I can stealth around and cause havoc. I can CC and knockdown from stealth. I can protect others, I can get some insanely high single Target DPS.

Shadows are great in pvp.
THE WITCHER LEGACY - Ven Zallow Server
VIVEC - Shadow ROSHI - Guardian GERALT - Vanguard JANEWAY - Gunslinger

Elkingoh's Avatar


Elkingoh
01.07.2012 , 03:27 AM | #4
I too feel confused about this class's purpose, when I (lvl 40) was "tank" specd (after trying my damnedest) in wz's I did at most 70-80k dmg and lasted about only 5secds when focused by range dps, now I'm infiltration and at most do 100-110k dmg. I am used to always taking out healers and ranged dps as a rouge type class, but any healer or ranged class just put up thier shields ignoring me and my dmg long enough that my team mates in the center of the battle are wiped out or now outnumbered. So as a "tank" you can't really keep enemy players agro long enough to matter, as "dps" it's hard to do any significant amount of dmg to main targets who pretty much see us as flys on thier back. And I know it's not just me as I keep track of other shadows stats in wz's and not to toot my own horn, but I would say I do better then most other shadows 85% of the time in general. Which if I feel almost useless, then how must they feel?
There is no such thing as darkness, only an absence of light.

Jesmcalli's Avatar


Jesmcalli
01.07.2012 , 03:38 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by NO_Walking View Post
Stealth capping objectives
Use your knockdown
Backstab gives me 3.7k crits
clairvoyant strike UPS your Dps a ton
12 second slow

Sorry, but I pwn in pvp. 1v1 I can kill mostly anyone my level. I can stealth around and cause havoc. I can CC and knockdown from stealth. I can protect others, I can get some insanely high single Target DPS.

Shadows are great in pvp.
3.7k crits...I see Ops/Scoundrels...hell, pretty much everyone else gets crits like those, while with better survivability/healing/etc. Backstab is horribly inefficient, especially given the innate lag and ability delay in WZs right now. I've actually spammed Backstab on a Sorc and he outhealed it, while being interrupted/stunned. It's a one trick pony that more often than not hits for 1100-1200 and now you're out in the open and they're laughing at you.

I use Low Slash and Spinning Kick all the time, to set up what, exactly? Our massive burst damage? Sure, if the target is below our level. Equal level and gear though? Not so much.I just feel at a loss, like I should have rolled something else. Ops/Scoundrels do the whole "harassment from stealth" thing much better than we do. We're a poor, non-ranged facsimile of them at the moment.

Rephlexie's Avatar


Rephlexie
01.07.2012 , 03:44 AM | #6
If you don't just look at killing people we are the unsung heroes of all the warzones.


Sprint, Stealth, multiple stuns, aoe knockback, Force Cloak, Ranged DPS with stun (Even longer distance with Champion 4/4 set bonus), AOE interrupt with Combat Technique Force Breach, guard, taunting etc etc.

The Best skill yet though... The Mind Maze OOC CC. I will share a trick here but you have NO idea how many times it has won Voidstar and Civil war matches. If you Mind Maze a single defender at an objective, they will almost ALWAYS pop their lengthy cool down skill to get out of it instantly, its instinct to do so really. Then you just hit em again instantly with Mind Maze and they have to stand there and watch you single handily cap an objective without even doing a single point of damage. In Voidstar our guild's strat is everyone right or left and just me left, we as a class are just that good with that CC in our quickbar.

The same goes for defending Voidstar. If the attackers get a door open, you can pop Force Cloak, Whirlwind one target, Low blow another, force stun yet another and hope for a project stun on yet another, then knockback at the chokepoint. You just shutdown half their team for long enough to get your crew in place to prevent them from rushing terminals.

Don't forget Combat Technique. I have held doors solo from being opened by multiple people at the same time using just Force Breech in Combat Technique. Its a mean ability! With Force Technique its an almost 20 second DoT as well! Popping it on a single offender before you die will allow enough time for your buddies to get out of the gate hopefully to finish the task.

If you want medals as well, we have just about everything except healing to get top ranks. If you are Biochem you get 2 with the Epic medpack, using guard on a lowbie is another and spamming Mass Mindcontrol will net you a ton of protection. 10 Medals is not difficult in a civil war match with Infiltration.

While some of the other classes will without question out damage us, we are the Swiss army knife of warzone, we have so much to offer each warzone, you just have to enjoy winning over getting top Damage done.
Rephlexie - Jedi Shadow
TORPIC - "The SWTOR UI Gallery" - Founder

Jesmcalli's Avatar


Jesmcalli
01.07.2012 , 04:12 AM | #7
Thanks for the post Reph. I guess I am just not keen on being the errand boy of the WZ, lol. I do many of the things you're talking about. Mind Maze especially. I just get annoyed because I feel helpless when someone focuses on me. I can Force Cloak and run, pretty much. Because pretty much anyone can put out more damage, and take more damage than I can. Sure, sometimes I take someone out, but it's rarely a clean getaway like I see other classes manage. I'll blow all my stuns, CCs interrupts, damage mitigation to win a 1v1 and then get blown away by someone following up. Meanwhile, I see Marauders, Ops, Sorcs, BHs etc etc running amok in WZs right now, not only being tactically useful, but being lethal. I'm just wondering when/where our lethality comes into play.

NO_Walking's Avatar


NO_Walking
01.07.2012 , 04:34 AM | #8
Our biggest advantage isn't our damage, but our utility. Nobody should pvp alone in a wz, and in a group we really shine. I can remove all debuffs and vanish if it gets too sports, easily get enemies off of friends who are being focused, and bust out some huge single target burst when needed. I can't count how many times I've won a wz for the team cause im the only one assaulting doors or capping turrets. And don't forget stealthing in the endzone for huttball passes. May not be the best alone, but we are invaluable as part of a team.
THE WITCHER LEGACY - Ven Zallow Server
VIVEC - Shadow ROSHI - Guardian GERALT - Vanguard JANEWAY - Gunslinger

Elkingoh's Avatar


Elkingoh
01.07.2012 , 06:29 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by NO_Walking View Post
Our biggest advantage isn't our damage, but our utility. Nobody should pvp alone in a wz, and in a group we really shine. I can remove all debuffs and vanish if it gets too sports, easily get enemies off of friends who are being focused, and bust out some huge single target burst when needed. I can't count how many times I've won a wz for the team cause im the only one assaulting doors or capping turrets. And don't forget stealthing in the endzone for huttball passes. May not be the best alone, but we are invaluable as part of a team.
Not knock you or anything, but what class doesn't do better with a team, and for that matter what stealth dps class can't do a better job at all those things?
There is no such thing as darkness, only an absence of light.

NO_Walking's Avatar


NO_Walking
01.07.2012 , 06:45 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Elkingoh View Post
Not knock you or anything, but what class doesn't do better with a team, and for that matter what stealth dps class can't do a better job at all those things?
You're free to roll an easier class....ill keep dominating as a shadow.
THE WITCHER LEGACY - Ven Zallow Server
VIVEC - Shadow ROSHI - Guardian GERALT - Vanguard JANEWAY - Gunslinger