I'm not so sure about this, as from my personal experience, most of a Deception Assassin's DPS seems to come from Maul; an ability which can only be used when you're behind the target.

 

In this light, I think that Assassins actually do play as WoW Rogues, Assassination Rogues to be more specific, although Assassins admittedly do have a lot more utility.

If maul is your primary dps source then you're not playing the deception spec correctly and probably not doing near as much dps as you could be. As a matter of fact the use of maul is very situational imo. Being that the opponent has his back turned, you have a proc, and an abundance of force. Other than that it should primarily be used as an opener pre-spike availability. As a previous poster said your dps should be coming from discharge and shocks.

Deception is very much like a rogue.

 

And as far as I can tell I do more dps than operatives.

 

You are definitely not a support class.

 

Assassin dps is great >.>

 

Also what do you support with? Your slow, which sorcs get too? Your spike, which you can use once?

 

Darkness certainly plays like a DK more than a rogue, but that is to be expected, as you're kinda doing the very opposite of rogues do, standing in front of a boss and punching it.

 

Madness has its dots and probably isn't terribly roguelike, but it is the shared tree between sorcs and assassins.

I guess I should have been a little more clear with the operative point.

People want to come out of stealth and do massive amounts of damage with some sort of stealth opener which Sins don't really have... Not like Operatives. I think Sins are fine with the damage they do my point was simply that you are not a wow rogue.

As far as support is concerned. Darkness is definitely the true support tree...

However that doesn't stop me a Deception sin from dark charge/guarding the flag carrier. Mind Trap into electrocuting someone to let my teammate cap the flag/door.

And my last point, I'm fully aware that Sin dps is fine I never said it wasn't. I just said we are a jack of all trades and as such we don't see huge numbers in any one aspect of the game.

Oh okay, well that is much more reasonable.

I would actually say we are quite roguelike in the sustained burst (bear with me here lol).

You can get up to 18 seconds of 50% more force regen, coming out of stealth.

That is a massive, massive dps increase. If you also overload saber, you're doing much more damage than an op, but over a longer period of time.

The thing is, once an op finishes his opener, he can't do anything. He's at 0 energy with nothing to do except autoattack.

After you finish your first 6 seconds, you just pop blackout and do almost 50% more damage for the next 6 seconds, then vanish and possibly reopen with even more energy regen.

*Disclaimer - my pvp experience is mostly secondhand, from my op buddy who regales me with stories. So if I'm completely off on this, I'm sorry lol.

Why do terrible WoW Rogue rerollers that play the easiest Assassin spec (Darkness) always seem to make incorrect posts in this forum about the class? Deception Assassins (non-faceroll spec) play a lot like Rogues and have 90% of their abilities. Shock doesn't make them more like Enhance Shamans. That's one ability. Maul is a primary attack for an Assassin (along with Shock, Discharge, etc). Read the guide. If you don't know how to get and stay behind people in PvP, then you only further cement how much of a terrible WoW Rogue you were.

Stop being bad and learn to play a real spec before comparing Assassins to Blood Death Knights because Darkness and Blood are both tank specs with Death Grip. Last time I played WoW, the forums were littered with Blood is OP'd threads and my main was DK. I know you just want to be OP'd again, but at least acknowledge the fact that you're not good at this game and only get by playing the easiest specs to get your point across.

Rule 3: Your "niche" in pvp is... You guessed it Support/Jack of All Trades. You have abilities for almost every situation. You have plenty of control/interrupts if played and timed correctly. You must also realize that while all specs are viable you are going to be giving up something in return for the other I.E Survivability vs Burst. You can't have both choose one or the other that fits your play-style.

It's unfortunately that our burst isn't really anything worth mentioning compared to classes in heavy armor/or fellow glass cannons.

This from a 50 ASSN in full PvP, Valor 50+

I love assassin, and I love the utility, but the DPS/Burst needs a bump.

Oh okay, well that is much more reasonable.

 

I would actually say we are quite roguelike in the sustained burst (bear with me here lol).

 

You can get up to 18 seconds of 50% more force regen, coming out of stealth.

 

That is a massive, massive dps increase. If you also overload saber, you're doing much more damage than an op, but over a longer period of time.

 

The thing is, once an op finishes his opener, he can't do anything. He's at 0 energy with nothing to do except autoattack.

 

After you finish your first 6 seconds, you just pop blackout and do almost 50% more damage for the next 6 seconds, then vanish and possibly reopen with even more energy regen.

 

*Disclaimer - my pvp experience is mostly secondhand, from my op buddy who regales me with stories. So if I'm completely off on this, I'm sorry lol.

Here's usually how PVP in deception works, actually:

0. Be stealthy. Goes without saying, but you want to get that force regen to allow you to complete your initial burst and then some. You also would prefer your target not know that you're there. Obviously.

0a. Optional: Pop overcharge saber and crit/surge trinket now. You'll get the most use out of them if you open up with them already on.

1. Spike. Get behind your target (though position doesn't matter much) and start the fun. Spike is your only stealth opener, and it gives you the added benefit of incapacitating your opponent for a couple seconds, enough for you to get off a free attack (or two.)

2. Voltaic Slash x2. No matter what, you'll want two of these before doing anything else. Make sure they actually land, with a glance at your buff bar, to see 2 stacks of Induction, so the next part comes off with the proper amount of burst.

2a. Avoid the temptation to use up that Exploit Weakness buff if it's there. In fact, don't even look at it.

3. Recklessness, and this is the time to pop your Adrenal/Expertise/whatever buffs if you want to. I believe one of them takes a GCD though, so you may not want to.

4. Discharge. Ouch.

5. Shock. Double ouch. By this point your opponent is either trying to run away or trying to do bad things to you in return. You may have already been stunned, knocked back, force choked, whirlwinded, or any number of other CC abilities, somewhere between step 1 and step 4. I assume you know how to deal with them and move on to this point. Generally speaking, I can get to step 4 fairly reliably against most targets, if I'm smart in choosing them and I don't suddenly get 6 other people running up on me and chain-stunning me.

6. Low Slash. The absolutely massive Discharge and Shock guaranteed crits should have taken a sizable chunk of health out of your opponent, even a tank with decent mitigation will be near half. (Why are you attacking a tank?) At this point you're finishing off your kill, and you want him ideally to stop what he's doing, which is either trying to get away, trying to heal himself, or trying to kill you in return. This also lets you flip around behind him and TRY to get off that Maul now, if EW procced.

7+. Options: Maul, more Voltaic spam, Force Slow, the branches of possibilities at this point are more complex, and situational. Remember you still have Electrocute, too. Remember to Jolt heals. Remember to Force Cloak and Spike again.

To me, after step 6 is what distinguishes the good players from the bad. How do you deal with an opponent who is being squirrely and trying to do everything in his playbook to shake you (or kill you, or save himself, etc) when you've got a huge toolbox to call upon and need to pick the option best suited to counter him. Knowing the other classes and how they work is important so you can anticipate their oh-crap abilities and nullify them.

I'm not so sure about this, as from my personal experience, most of a Deception Assassin's DPS seems to come from Maul; an ability which can only be used when you're behind the target.

 

In this light, I think that Assassins actually do play as WoW Rogues, Assassination Rogues to be more specific, although Assassins admittedly do have a lot more utility.

Not to be an ***, but you are playing the Deception Assassin wrong if you think most of the builds dps comes from Maul. Maul should only be used if the duplicity proc is up and occassionaly if coming out of stealth and you know that a maul and assassinate will take the target down. Most of the DPS from deception comes from VS, shock, and discharge.

Why do terrible WoW Rogue rerollers that play the easiest Assassin spec (Darkness) always seem to make incorrect posts in this forum about the class? Deception Assassins (non-faceroll spec) play a lot like Rogues and have 90% of their abilities. Shock doesn't make them more like Enhance Shamans. That's one ability. Maul is a primary attack for an Assassin (along with Shock, Discharge, etc). Read the guide. If you don't know how to get and stay behind people in PvP, then you only further cement how much of a terrible WoW Rogue you were.

 

Stop being bad and learn to play a real spec before comparing Assassins to Blood Death Knights because Darkness and Blood are both tank specs with Death Grip. Last time I played WoW, the forums were littered with Blood is OP'd threads and my main was DK. I know you just want to be OP'd again, but at least acknowledge the fact that you're not good at this game and only get by playing the easiest specs to get your point across.

Irrelevant post is once again irrelevant. If you're going to continuously troll assassin threads at least come up with new material. The similarities between blood dks and darkness sins is almost uncanny and far more synonymous than death grip. Furthermore, since you're the expert on comparing classes and telling everyone else how to play, if you took one look at the concealment tree for operatives you would see there is far more in common with your standard MMO rogue builds than anything in the deception tree. Ray Charles could see it if he looked, it just stares you right in the face. Also, take your hatred and contempt for other peoples opinions back to that cess pool you call the wow forums, its not welcome here.

... And about your positional requirement rant. You do realize this game has an autoface feature right? Gaining access to someone's back is nigh impossible if the other player has it enabled, has ANY resolve already tacked onto their bar, hasn't used their cc breaker, you've used your CCs, and/or knows what they're doing. Sure, you'll run across a noob here and there that's going to run away from you with his back facing you but they are and will be very few and far between. This isn't even factoring in the current server sync lag problem, so yet again you're only further gimping yourself if maul is your main source of damage. That and the fact that if you don't have a duplicity proc you only get off 2 before you run yourself out of force rendering yourself a sitting duck for a substantial amount of time as far as PvP burst timeframes are concerned. Are you now going to claim that maul crits for 7.5-8k EVERY TIME you use it allowing you to 2 shot any player you come into contact with? Yeah... Thats what I thought. You have no room to be telling anyone how bad they are if that's truly how you play.

BTW 23/0/18 plays NOTHING like a full darkness spec and you're just showing everyone reading this post how little you know about both the class and its various PvP specs.

In closing, L2P, go back to WoW... Etc... Etc.

realized everything i was going to say has been said.

to sum it up. stop being bad.

Irrelevant post is once again irrelevant. If you're going to continuously troll assassin threads at least come up with new material. The similarities between blood dks and darkness sins is almost uncanny and far more synonymous than death grip. Furthermore, since you're the expert on comparing classes and telling everyone else how to play, if you took one look at the concealment tree for operatives you would see there is far more in common with your standard MMO rogue builds than anything in the deception tree. Ray Charles could see it if he looked, it just stares you right in the face. Also, take your hatred and contempt for other peoples opinions back to that cess pool you call the wow forums, its not welcome here.

 

... And about your positional requirement rant. You do realize this game has an autoface feature right? Gaining access to someone's back is nigh impossible if the other player has it enabled, has ANY resolve already tacked onto their bar, hasn't used their cc breaker, you've used your CCs, and/or knows what they're doing. Sure, you'll run across a noob here and there that's going to run away from you with his back facing you but they are and will be very few and far between. This isn't even factoring in the current server sync lag problem, so yet again you're only further gimping yourself if maul is your main source of damage. That and the fact that if you don't have a duplicity proc you only get off 2 before you run yourself out of force rendering yourself a sitting duck for a substantial amount of time as far as PvP burst timeframes are concerned. Are you now going to claim that maul crits for 7.5-8k EVERY TIME you use it allowing you to 2 shot any player you come into contact with? Yeah... Thats what I thought. You have no room to be telling anyone how bad they are if that's truly how you play.

 

BTW 23/0/18 plays NOTHING like a full darkness spec and you're just showing everyone reading this post how little you know about both the class and its various PvP specs.

 

In closing, L2P, go back to WoW... Etc... Etc.

your the one who needs to crawl back into the cess pool you came from, all i see everywhere i go on the forums is you spewing nothing but garbage about how an assassin is nothing like a rogue (even though 3/4 of a wow rogues abilties have been cut and pasted onto the assassin) and more like a DK (which only applies if your darkness using dark charge and a shield gen) and you contintue to point out that you have no idea *** your talking about.

The thing is, once an op finishes his opener, he can't do anything. He's at 0 energy with nothing to do except autoattack.

 

[...]

 

*Disclaimer - my pvp experience is mostly secondhand, from my op buddy who regales me with stories. So if I'm completely off on this, I'm sorry lol.

Your OP buddy is doing something very strange if he blows his entire energy pool during the initial burst.

You go in with Acid Blade already running and energy pool full. Hidden Strike costs 15 energy. Backstab is free. Lacerate is 15. That's the opening salvo. During those 3 GCDs, you regen at least 20 energy, so you're almost back to full by the time your opponent gets back up on his feet, leaving plenty of room for the other abilities.

your the one who needs to crawl back into the cess pool you came from, all i see everywhere i go on the forums is you spewing nothing but garbage about how an assassin is nothing like a rogue (even though 3/4 of a wow rogues abilties have been cut and pasted onto the assassin) and more like a DK (which only applies if your darkness using dark charge and a shield gen) and you contintue to point out that you have no idea *** your talking about.

Where did I say nothing like a rogue? I said we don't play like a rogue which is 100% true aside from having stealth. We have mirror abilities that resemble some of the rogues, some of the dks, and to an extent some of a Warlock. Whereas the real copy and pasted rogue class in this game is the IA operative. Go look at their talent trees and tell me which one looks more similar. It's not my fault you're trying to push the square peg into the round hole. I'm just taking it upon myself to give another perspective to your warped opinions of the class. We far more resemble a feral druid before a rogue if we are going the WoW route if I had to stick solely to the stealth classes.

What's our alpha strike from stealth again? Better yet, besides a 2 point talent at the very bottom of the deception tree what other talents do we have that synergize us better with stealth?

To prevent yourself from playing a class you could eventually hate read up.

 

Rule 1 (This rule will also save you the wrath of Cowflab): You are a not a rogue. If you rolled assassin in the hopes of playing something akin to a wow rogue turn around and head over to the Operative forums.

 

Please do not make threads asking why you don't do as much damage as an Operative. You are a support/utility class that if played right is completely viable in all aspects of the game.

 

Rule 2: Stop comparing yourselves to other classes (kind of a follow-up of rule 1). You are playing a class that is unique in it's own way. Thus you won't play like other classes, comparing yourselves to Bounty Hunters is frustrating to everyone who reads your posts. You're not a BH you're not an Ops, don't compare.

 

Rule 3: Your "niche" in pvp is... You guessed it Support/Jack of All Trades. You have abilities for almost every situation. You have plenty of control/interrupts if played and timed correctly. You must also realize that while all specs are viable you are going to be giving up something in return for the other I.E Survivability vs Burst. You can't have both choose one or the other that fits your play-style.

 

Rule 4: Probably the most important rule... This is not a face-roll class. If you were looking for the I-win class you're in the wrong place. This class requires an understanding of your surroundings so you can use the right tools for the job. You have Force Shroud great against spell casters... You have deflection another great defensive CD against melee and ranged. If you are darkness you have plenty of tools to protect your teammates/yourself if need be.

 

Rule 5: If you're going to make a thread to complain about something please do it in an intelligent and respectful way. Plenty of people here who would love to discuss the class without letting it turn into a *****torm.

 

Or TL;DR Know your **** before you make a thread complaining about something.

 

 

If you have read all this and still feel the urge to play a Sin congrats you'll probably have a blast and will probably succeed in your career as a Sith Assassin. Have fun out there!

 

Love you.

Way to write a lot but say nothing.

Where did I say nothing like a rogue? I said we don't play like a rogue which is 100% true aside from having stealth. We have mirror abilities that resemble some of the rogues, some of the dks, and to an extent some of a Warlock. Whereas the real copy and pasted rogue class in this game is the IA operative. Go look at their talent trees and tell me which one looks more similar. It's not my fault you're trying to push the square peg into the round hole. I'm just taking it upon myself to give another perspective to your warped opinions of the class. We far more resemble a feral druid before a rogue if we are going the WoW route if I had to stick solely to the stealth classes.

 

What's our alpha strike from stealth again? Better yet, besides a 2 point talent at the very bottom of the deception tree what other talents do we have that synergize us better with stealth?

Dark Embrace, Fade, and Obsuscation... thats 3. Id probably even include Darkswell as well, bringing the total up to 4 talents that help stealth. and as for an alpha strike from stealth we do have spike.... it just sucks unless you spec darkness.

Dark Embrace, Fade, and Obsuscation... thats 3. Id probably even include Darkswell as well, bringing the total up to 4 talents that help stealth. and as for an alpha strike from stealth we do have spike.... it just sucks unless you spec darkness.

I said that synergize us with stealth, not help stealth. Although I do believe stealth is a big tool in our tool box, I don't believe our class revolves around it like say the operative. Spike really isn't what I would consider an alpha strike, because it can be specd into to make it a nonstealth ability. I'm talking about an ambush style alpha strike.

I said that synergize us with stealth, not help stealth. Although I do believe stealth is a big tool in our tool box, I don't believe our class revolves around it like say the operative. Spike really isn't what I would consider an alpha strike, because it can be specd into to make it a nonstealth ability. I'm talking about an ambush style alpha strike.

Might have to give up on it Cowflab. I can look at your posts from outside the box and see what it is your saying... I'm also not an idiot.

Just because a class has a few similar abilities from a class of a different game doesn't mean they are the same class. Most people don't see that.

Reading this thread makes me pat my back for never playing wow. I play my assassin without bias or comparisons with other classes/games etc.

On topic though, I am relatively low and generally use maul from stealth. I play on a crap comp and end up with 10fps if imm lucky, so I do find times when I try and maul and it fails.

but reading up on various playstyles and then trying them in PvE is really working wonders for me.

Might have to give up on it Cowflab. I can look at your posts from outside the box and see what it is your saying... I'm also not an idiot.

 

Just because a class has a few similar abilities from a class of a different game doesn't mean they are the same class. Most people don't see that.

this would be fine if we were actually talking about a "a few" abilties, but were not. were talking about over 1/2 of our abilities being mirrored from "a class from a different game" since you cant say rogue, minus an opener, which """I""" feel is a flaw and not a game mechanic since they obviously tried to give us one with spike.