Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Its been several months since the last list in the "REAL Most Powerful Series" was completed and since then I'm sure we've all found that our knowledge and perspectives have evolved and developed, and there have long since been a few positions that have been met with some contention. So the purpose of this thread will be to review all lists pertaining to the Force using categories. I've come up with several articles that I feel need addressing, but feel free to suggest more along the way. We will however be dealing with this on a case by case basis to avoid getting swamped. Also feel free to refer to the project index to remind yourselves of the positions. So without further ado, lets begin:Article 1: Saba Sebatyne vs Satele Shan Current Positions [Most Powerful Jedi] 9. Saba Sebatyne 10. Satele Shan The proposition being that Satele Shan is placed above Saba Sebatyne. Satele as a Jedi Grand Master and legendary figure in her day comes close in many aspects to the power wielded by Revan and Meetra, and all in all arguably has more impressive showings that Saba in Sense and Alter, which is enough to secure a place. For reference a comparison between Saba Sebatyne & Revan: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6513709&postcount=243 And a comparison between Satele Shan, Revan & Kenobi: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6505164&postcount=151 Verdict: #9 Satele Shan #10 Saba Sebatyne. Article 2: Kyp Durron vs Revan & Meetra Surik Current Positions [Most Powerful Jedi] 6. Kyp Durron 7. Revan 8. Meetra Surik The proposition being that Revan and/or Meetra Surik are placed above Kyp Durron. Durron certainly has some impressive showings and a great deal of potential, but Revan has shown his own exceptional mastery over the Force, projected equally heavy objects, dominated powerful darksiders and been recognised as exceptionally powerful by all he met. Meetra coming in close behind, with her own mastery over the light and was equally legendary. Verdict: #6 Revan, #7 Meetra Surik, #8 Kyp Durron. Article 3: Darth Malgus vs Darth Traya Current Positions [Most Powerful Sith] 8. Darth Malgus 9. Darth Traya The proposition again revolves around a contention for a spot with neither party being necessarily superior. Though I personally made the claim of Traya over Malgus as I feel Traya has demonstrated equal ability in dominating powerful Force Users and her exceptional mastery over healing is very much a match for Malgus’ mastery over Force Rage. For reference here is my amended comparison of Malgus & Traya: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6584800&postcount=246 Verdict: #9 Darth Traya, #10 Darth Malgus. Article 4: Darth Vader vs Exar Kun Current Positions [Most Powerful Force Users/Sith] 5. Darth Vader 6. Exar Kun The proposition essentially revolves around a contention between Vader and Exar Kun for #5 – both in reality seem viable candidates it is just a case of coming to a resolute decision. Verdict: #6 Exar Kun, #7 Darth Vader. Article 5: Jaina Solo vs Exar Kun, Darth Vader & Mace Windu Current Positions [Most Powerful Force Users/Jedi] 9. Jaina Solo 10. Exar Kun [11.] Vader/Mace Windu Thanks to the recent change which placed Exar Kun on the Most Powerful Force Users’s list this proposition has been modififed to consider whether Exar Kun and/or Vader and/or Mace Windu should be placed above Jaina Solo, who while does possess impressive showings does not perhaps possess enough raw power. With Mace Windu in particular rivalling many of the abilities of Darth Plagueis, who is currently #6, and Vader being extremely close to Kun. For reference a comparison between Plagueis, Exar Kun and Windu: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6475774&postcount=522 Verdict: #9 Exar Kun, #10 Darth Vader [#11] Jaina Solo. Article 6: Darth Plagueis vs Sith Emperor Current Positions [Most Powerful Force Users/Sith] 5. Sith Emperor 6. Darth Plagueis The proposition being that Darth Plagueis is placed above the Sith Emperor. I can’t pretend to be in support of this move so I don’t have much to say regarding the possibility. So I’ll leave that one to the floor, there are certainly several areas in which Plagueis matches him. For reference a comparison between Darth Caedus and the Sith Emperor: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6603433&postcount=414 Verdict: #5 Sith Emperor, #6 Darth Plagueis. Article 7: Saba Sebatyne vs Obi-Wan Kenobi Current Positions [Most Powerful Jedi] 10. Saba Sebatyne The proposition being that Obi-Wan Kenobi is placed above Saba Sebatyne Both are powerful Jedi and highly regarded within their respective orders and both have a superior command over the Force. For reference a comparison between Saba Sebatyne and Revan: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6513709&postcount=243 Verdict: Both discounted in favour of #9 Nomi Sunrider, #10 Satele Shan. Article 8: Master Fay vs Exar Kun & Darth Vader Current Positions [Most Powerful Force Users] 8. Master Fay 9. Exar Kun 10. Darth Vader The proposition being that Exar Kun and/or Darth Vader are placed above Master Fay. Fay was regarded by Kenobi to be the second most powerful member of the Jedi Order, and her remarkable healing ability and seeming lack of aging support this. However we should consider that Kenobi’s accolade leaves room for Sith Lords, and Vader in particular could probably have recovered from the same injuries that Fay was supposedly able to. Verdict: #8 Exar Kun, #9 Master Fay, #10 Darth Vader.Article 9: Mace Windu vs Revan & Meetra Surik Current Positions [Most Powerful Jedi] 5. Mace Windu 6. Revan 7. Meetra Surik The proposition being that Revan and/or Meetra Surik are placed above Mace Windu. Mace Windu is a powerful Jedi but I feel Revan and Meetra were on more legendary levels and arguably outperform him in several respects, though not necessarily both of them. For reference a comparison between Darth Plagueis, Exar Kun and Mace Windu: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6475774&postcount=522 Edited July 2, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I would like to note one change about the Control analysis of Saba and Revan, recall that I argued later that the Healing while equal between the 2 wasnt actually Saba's strength in Control but in fact her Force Valor was, while both could heal the Injuries Saba could FIGHT with them and win, I thought in the end we determined Saba and Revan were likely around equal in control Saba had a slight Edge in Sense and Revan had a slightly Larger edge in Alter thus Revan got it because both a larger edge and Alter is more indicative of power then Sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 I would like to note one change about the Control analysis of Saba and Revan, recall that I argued later that the Healing while equal between the 2 wasnt actually Saba's strength in Control but in fact her Force Valor was, while both could heal the Injuries Saba could FIGHT with them and win, I thought in the end we determined Saba and Revan were likely around equal in control Saba had a slight Edge in Sense and Revan had a slightly Larger edge in Alter thus Revan got it because both a larger edge and Alter is more indicative of power then Sense.Yes, that analysis was before we engaged in a more lengthy debate and while I did revise it I didn't have the knowledge to hand. So yeah I'd agree with you there, I'll go ahead and update it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I agree that Satele should be above Saba, but I will review those comparisons and see if I can make a case for Obi-Wan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I should also note that your analysis of Obi-Wan Kenobi is slightly outdated, so that's another reason to perform my own analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I should also note that your analysis of Obi-Wan Kenobi is slightly outdated, so that's another reason to perform my own analysis. Dem'z Fighting Wurds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am fine with the statement of her being enlightened that i understand and dont call BS at all. what I was calling just a game mechanic was the force power itself which is exactly what it is, its a game mechanic it doesnt have the same affects in the "real" world of star wars. So i guess this does mean we have to discuss Corran Horn who pretty much has better feats of Tutaminis then most any jedi on this list so clearly he was extremely powerful and if we are judging by Tutaminis he would assuredly be more powerful then Revan. Finally I admitedly had not read the Revan book and didnt know it talked about Meetra being negatively affected by the Nexus. The question then becomes how sure are we that none of her opponents were negatively affected by it. Neither side showed these affects in game, but she had them in the Novel so there is no saying that the Triumvate were actually empowered by the Nexus and not also harmed by it. If they werent then they were MASSIVELY weaker then we give them credit for, because if Meetra can beat them while struggling not to up chuck from standing while they pull on a Nexus, if they werent on the Nexus they should easily be slapped down like the nothings they were if thats the case, but I dont think thats the case. Enlightenment isnt what it is in game, no, it's a new level of power entirely. Doesn't mean we have to discuss Corran Horn, Tutaminis is a relatively unknown feat, we don't know how much power you need to perform it, but we know Force Sever takes massive energy, which is why it's a bonus for Surik. As for the Malachor thing, the Triumvirate weren't negatively affected. Thing is, Sion wasn't overly powerful just a great Duelist, wheras Surik was a fantastic duelist. Traya was on top of Surik in terms of force ability, but she couldn't use Force Drain. Surik kept her on the defensive using her superior Saber Skills, but couldnt attack with the Force because she didn't want to Kill Traya, instead, she severed her from the force, so basically... She out Dueled Traya, that's it. At least, that's how I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Dem'z Fighting Wurds! Come on, we both know Beni hasn't read a single Clone Wars comic/novel. It's understandable for it to be slightly insufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Come on, we both know Beni hasn't read a single Clone Wars comic/novel. It's understandable for it to be slightly insufficient. Hehe, you're one to talk Aurbere At least, you haven't read many on ventress or your BZ outcome would have been very different (Out Dueling Anakin and Kenobi anybody?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Concerning Tune's post, I believe the theory posed postulates that Meetra's wound (which protected her from the affects of Malachor) faded away by the point of the Revan novel - in which it is never referred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Come on, we both know Beni hasn't read a single Clone Wars comic/novel. It's understandable for it to be slightly insufficient.I feel is Kenobi had a case, it would be patently obvious. All in all I feel Kenobi is more of a warrior than a sage, the manner in which he has been slapped down by Dooku and Maul in terms of Force-based engagements seems to show that, and I don't buy "his Force barriers are just bad." Edited February 1, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Anyway are we all decided concerning Article 1? Selenial, Lady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Anyway are we all decided concerning Article 1? Selenial, Lady? I never thought Saba should be on the list as it is, so it's got my vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I feel is Kenobi had a case, it would be patently obvious. All in all I feel Kenobi is more of a warrior than a sage, the manner in which he has been slapped down by Dooku and Maul in terms of Force-based engagements seems to show that, and I don't buy "his Force barriers are just bad." You've clearly already made up your mind on the issue so I won't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hehe, you're one to talk Aurbere At least, you haven't read many on ventress or your BZ outcome would have been very different (Out Dueling Anakin and Kenobi anybody?) Or maybe I did do my Ventress research and came to a decision based on all of the evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) You've clearly already made up your mind on the issue so I won't bother.Suit yourself. Edited February 1, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I never thought Saba should be on the list as it is, so it's got my vote! I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 OK, I'll amend the list to put Satele over Saba - I've also put up the next article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Or maybe I did do my Ventress research and came to a decision based on all of the evidence? Pfft, out dueled Kenobi and Skywalker at the same time, almost Killed Kenobi, (which threw Anakin into a rage, think it ended in a Force Crush) but yeh, I respected the decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I concur with the new thing too. Hell, I'd put Surik over Revan too, but I daren't say anything Anti-Revan in front of Beni and Tune... I joke, I joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I concur with the new thing too. Hell, I'd put Surik over Revan too, but I daren't say anything Anti-Revan in front of Beni and Tune... I joke, I joke Well as my question in the other thread entailed, if we are talking about command of the Light Side of the Force then i think Surik is the superior, certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Pfft, out dueled Kenobi and Skywalker at the same time, almost Killed Kenobi, (which threw Anakin into a rage, think it ended in a Force Crush) but yeh, I respected the decision We all disagree with decisions. And I do mean all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I concur with the new thing too. Hell, I'd put Surik over Revan too, but I daren't say anything Anti-Revan in front of Beni and Tune... I joke, I joke I would agree to that, but that won't surprise anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Well as my question in the other thread entailed, if we are talking about command of the Light Side of the Force then i think Surik is the superior, certainly. It's overall force power, (Which makes no sense, because Revan was neither a Jedi, or Light Side, so being based on LS makes more sense) but still, even overall, I think Surik just about passed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 It's overall force power, (Which makes no sense, because Revan was neither a Jedi, or Light Side, so being based on LS makes more sense) but still, even overall, I think Surik just about passed him. I feel that should be obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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