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We need to talk about MM Lost Island...


Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
10.24.2018 , 09:50 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
It doesn't help that the OP's suggestion is for BW to "rebalance" the flashpoints. A lovely, vague request that has a less than 0.00001% chance of being implemented.

A better solution would be for Bioware to reintroduce the "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" separation of flashpoints and operations. This is something that existed back in the 1.x days, but was abandoned with patch 2.0.

If memory serves, Lost Island, Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond were Tier 2, and everything else was Tier 1.

The basic idea was to communicate to the player "this stuff is harder". They were separate queues as well. You could queue for Tier 1 flashpoints only, and not have to worry about HM LI popping. Or you could queue for both. Your choice.

This wouldn't prevent unprepared idiots from purposefully queuing for Tier 2 flashpoints, but I believe it would help.

/2cr
I think Kaon Under Siege was also a Tier 2 FP, but it's been a long time, so I may be mistaken.
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.24.2018 , 02:13 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
I think Kaon Under Siege was also a Tier 2 FP, but it's been a long time, so I may be mistaken.
You got me wondering, so I tracked this down:
http://www.swtor.com/blog/guide-group-finder-part-2

Only Lost Island was in Tier 2.

Incidentally, this quote out of the article is the perfect explanation of why I think Tier 1/2 should be brought back:
Quote:
What is the difference between Tier 1 and Tier 2 Flashpoints? Difficulty! Tier 2 Flashpoints are more difficult than Tier 1, and we felt that it wouldn’t be a good experience to place under-geared players into groups where they couldn’t meaningfully perform their assigned role. To support this, Tier 2 Flashpoints are disabled by default and must be actively enabled through the Group Finder filters.

rantboi's Avatar


rantboi
10.24.2018 , 03:42 PM | #23
how would you decide which ones are hard enough to be tier 2 ?

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
10.24.2018 , 03:59 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by rantboi View Post
how would you decide which ones are hard enough to be tier 2 ?
One possibility is to decide based on where in the expansion’s life cycle they came out. Those are generally designed with considerations of gear and class balance changes that evolved during that expansion cycle.

For example, Kaon/Lost Island came out at the end of the 1.0 cycle, they weren’t part of the launch flashpoints.
Korriban/Tython/Manaan/Rakata Prime all came out at the end of the 2.0 cycle. They are also harder than the two Czerka flashpoints which occurred during the middle part of 2.0 and were the first tactical fp’s.
Umbara/Copero/Nathema all came out after much of 5.0 had been live for quite some time and, at least for Umbara, had a gear rating requirement for MM.
That won’t necessarily account for things like the bonus bosses in an individual fp, which may be much harder than the rest of the fp (I’m looking at you, Commander Mokan), or individual expansion launch fp that may have been slightly overturned (e.g., Blood Hunt), but it’s a good way to make an initial sort.
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.24.2018 , 09:12 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by rantboi View Post
how would you decide which ones are hard enough to be tier 2 ?
If the devs were to reimplement this feature, they'd have metrics about what flashpoints players are having trouble with.

It's mostly going to be fights with heavy mechanics / coordination.

Or fights when a low-level bolstered tank (still missing key defensive abilities) just won't be able to survive without a God-tier healer on tap.

LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
10.26.2018 , 06:09 PM | #26
I still think we need a 3rd difficulty of FP. On top of tacticals and HM, there need to be SM FP were you need a trinity group, but were the damage output and dps checks are not that high. Make it level 50-70. On top of that, increase the difficulty of current HM FP. Make them levelk 70 only and balance it around 236 or something and make it drop something valuable to give people incentive to play them.
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DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
10.28.2018 , 06:54 PM | #27
When they scaled eveything to 65 and then again to 70, they did a terrible job.

Some stuff is under-tuned, such as Hammer Station (last boss is a total joke).

Some stuff is over-tuned, such as last boss Rishi (bullet sponge + beams of death that hit even when players move out).

Some stuff has actual pass / fail mechanics, such as monkey boss in Lost Island (stand in spot or die).

Some stuff is super fast, such as Hammer Station.

Some stuff takes a lot longer, some of the new ones and old RP heavy ones filled with bosses that don't drop anything useful such as Ilum and False Emp.

And yet everything provides the same basic rewards for completion - the GF bonus, a few chances at mats, and a few CXP tokens.

So for me, when certain ones pop (I have lists for both on VM and MM), I just drop as some are just are not worth the time or risk of failure.

And while I wouldn't mind a hard tier or NiM versions or whatever tuned for higher gear, such tuned content does not belong in group finder filled with random leveling characters or players from some ERP guild looking for conquest points while dressed like space ******s.

And yeah - I'm sure they have access to data showing success / fail rates and I'm sure the majority of players who have been around a while could put the FPs in generally the correct order of most successful to least successful.

I'm also sure there are a few that get a far greater percentage of players dropping at start than others.