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Will Anthem be the death of swtor?


TrixxieTriss

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To combine a reply to FlameYOL and Kodrac:

 

The good news is that pre-sales alone seem to be enough to keep Anthem up for at least a bit. BW will no doubt spin sales as successful, and as there is no subscription, it will be difficult to gauge success on the financial side.

 

With that said, I have been a guinea pig for the game and it suffers from a fundamental, structural flaw. As it turns out, pretty much every review identifies the same problem:

 

To its credit, BW was very clear that this is a coop looter shooter. The problem is auto match makes so you zone into a quest, which takes about 30 seconds, when you are grouped with Edwin the Edgelord. As he is a minute of the quest ahead of you, you then get a warning that you will be teleported to Edwin the Edgelord if you don't catch up in 20 seconds. Then you get another 30 second loading screen as you get to teleported to Edwin the Edgelord.

 

It's mind-numbingly stultifying. I'm imposing my bias here (but it seems to be pretty uniform in terms of reviews), but I want shooter games to be fast-paced and seamless. Even after you complete a quest, you then HAVE to go back to Fort Tarsis and experience at least 3 more loading screens before you can get a new quest.

 

I don't have a problem with the story, though it's nothing spectacular. And to their credit (and I think little surprise to anyone), the voice acting and particularly the graphics are beyond fantastic. The game is beautiful and the graphics design team did a top notch job.

 

BW has acknowledged the loading screen problem, but they have only committed to reducing the time of each loadout, not the actual number of loadouts. For a lot of people, that will be a game-breaker. Is it worth $60 for the story line solo (which is possible). Time will tell.

 

Right now, though, it is averaging a 67 metacritic score, which I think is right -- particularly since every review is identifying the exact same issues I just did.

 

I guess they must be brilliant. :rak_04:

 

Dasty

Edited by Jdast
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It looks like it could be a fun game. I just don't see the point of it. Fly around, shoot stuff, repeat. Visually it looks stunning and the customization is top notch, but no video I've seen has been able to say why you're doing these things other than Destiny did it. I don't think we here in the MMO crowd are the target audience anyway, but I might get it anyway, though I'll let someone else be launch day guinea pigs.

 

I have been watching my husband play it since last friday and it looks really fun! Besides things you mentioned it has decent Bioware story. It's like Mass effect, Unreal tournament (old good one) and Destiny 2 had a weird but talented baby. Only reason i haven't jumped in yet is because in late years i have been starting to get annoyed with any other controls than classic mmorpg style (like here in SWTOR). But i think i will do some test runs on hubbys game to see if i can get used to the controls.

 

But yeah, i think it is less appealing for pure Destiny 2 style folks and more appealing to ones who love mmorpgs and Bioware story games but don't mind some heavy shooting around either. At least from the experience of watching someone who fits into that description to log in and play every day as much as possible. :p

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I have been watching my husband play it since last friday and it looks really fun! Besides things you mentioned it has decent Bioware story. It's like Mass effect, Unreal tournament (old good one) and Destiny 2 had a weird but talented baby. Only reason i haven't jumped in yet is because in late years i have been starting to get annoyed with any other controls than classic mmorpg style (like here in SWTOR). But i think i will do some test runs on hubbys game to see if i can get used to the controls.

 

But yeah, i think it is less appealing for pure Destiny 2 style folks and more appealing to ones who love mmorpgs and Bioware story games but don't mind some heavy shooting around either. At least from the experience of watching someone who fits into that description to log in and play every day as much as possible. :p

 

From what I've read, the story only lasts 10-15 hours so it needs to have something that brings people back. I'm not the looter shooter type so I'm not the best judge, but if it doesn't do something original I'm not sure how it stands out from the crowd.

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Anthem will have no impact on SWTOR's future.

 

 

There is truth to this, I think, but I realize it's an arguable point for many. While a lot of people put so much stock in Anthem -- and admittedly, it's a big thing for BioWare -- in the context of Star Wars people seem to be really underestimating how much is riding on Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order. A game that is going to be in canon (which matters to some) and is trying to correct for some of the mistakes made by this game (as an MMO) and the Star Wars: Battlefront games.

 

On the broader point: SWTOR is currently not being used as a barometer at all regarding the success or failure of Star Wars games. It simply isn't. From an industry standpoint right now, it barely rates a mention. That even includes in earnings reports and future revenue projections as released during shareholder calls.

 

SWTOR is serving only as a very limited sort of learning experience because it ultimately doesn't (at least right now) matter all that much. The Battlefront series was a lot of learning because it showed a few missteps. The first didn't have a single-player campaign at all. The second focused initially on transactions but did have the story elements (including a tie-in novel).

 

Another learning experience came with the shutting down of Visceral's Star Wars game and then the shutting down of the "reboot" of that game by EA Vancouver. Some of those decisions, arguably, were driven at least in part by the perceived lack of success of SWTOR. But that's complicated by the fact that SWTOR started before EA took acquisition and it was based on a past series (Knights of the Old Republic) that fans generally did like.

 

So the only part of SWTOR that is being taken as a learning experience is the notion of a single-player game versus a more traditional MMO game (and perhaps versus a single-player game with some multiplayer elements). Now consider the type of game that Fallen Order is purported to be and you'll see why whether it succeeds or fails will have a large impact on whether a model like that of SWTOR is viable.

 

That being said, the alpha team tends to be dispersed after launch of a big game. That happened with SWTOR, for example. So that team from Anthem most certainly could be brought into SWTOR. Or they could more likely be moved into something like the next Dragon Age. A large part of that will be determined by those projections being made by product teams.

 

I also think this is largely correct. A "failure" an Anthem -- and failure is very relative, just like it is for movie studios with box office figures -- would definitely cause some internal shifting of resources and a re-alignment of assets. Regardless of what does or does not happen with Anthem, the "worst" that would happen is SWTOR's cost center stays the same for the duration.

 

 

I link this because Krpyto explains how the games are totally separate, and really one's success has little to do with the other's fate, etc. BW has more going on that just SWTOR and Anthem.

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Anthem will have no impact on SWTOR's future.

 

 

 

 

I link this because Krpyto explains how the games are totally separate, and really one's success has little to do with the other's fate, etc. BW has more going on that just SWTOR and Anthem.

 

Facilities Management. Not all assets are fungible.

 

Dasty

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I just saw this review of Anthem and if it’s all true, then you have to wonder how long BioWare as a studio can last and what the hell happens to swtor if they close BioWare down.

Wow...that's a harsh review if true...

 

Anthem won't kill SWTOR, but it should ensure Bioware Austin gets closed. SWTORs 'vast' development team will either work remotely, or be absorbed by another location.

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Wow...that's a harsh review if true...

 

Anthem won't kill SWTOR, but it should ensure Bioware Austin gets closed. SWTORs 'vast' development team will either work remotely, or be absorbed by another location.

 

I found it funny how the review narrator describes the choices of dialogue having no future impact on your character, because the story only has one direction it is going.

 

How odd BW would create such a bland story system for a game, when they are the lords of story. Oh well. That review is harsh, indeed.

 

EDIT:

 

Ahh. Love the point he makes here too: Repetition. "The repetition is so obvious the player begins dreading it, the game lacks the window dressing to properly cover it up." Sounds like Ossus grind. Doing one small area over and over and over. Awesome.

Edited by Lhancelot
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I found it funny how the review narrator describes the choices of dialogue having no future impact on your character, because the story only has one direction it is going.

 

How odd BW would create such a bland story system for a game, when they are the lords of story. Oh well. That review is harsh, indeed.

 

EDIT:

 

Ahh. Love the point he makes here too: Repetition. "The repetition is so obvious the player begins dreading it, the game lacks the window dressing to properly cover it up." Sounds like Ossus grind. Doing one small area over and over and over. Awesome.

Yeah, all great points.

 

Clearly Bioware learned nothing from SWTOR, which is why their time is likely up. It's shocking how you put the same people who destroyed SWTOR in charge of Anthem, and you end up with the same problems SWTOR suffers from in Anthem...

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Lhance and Tux,

 

The least of Anthem's problems is that the dialogue choices have no impact (though *cough* at many points in this game one could say the same).

 

As someone who has put in over 20 hours in Anthem, I can safely say, yes, the dialogue choices are irrelevant. You have the "aww shucks" choice vs. the "I'm a witty, snarky antagonist" choice. The choice is irrelevant.

 

But to BW's credit, they did not market it as a MMORPG. For example, they made clear there are no character customization choices outside of javelins.

 

The problem Anthem faces is that it fails, or at this point needs a lot of work, on its target and intended audience -- those who like Looter / Shooters.

 

Dasty

Edited by Jdast
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Lhance and Tux,

 

The least of Anthem's problems is that the dialogue choices have no impact (though *cough* at many points in this game one could say the same).

 

As someone who has put in over 20 hours in Anthem, I can safely say, yes, the dialogue choices are irrelevant. You have the "aww shucks" choice vs. the "I'm a witty, snarky antagonist" choice. The choice is irrelevant.

 

But to BW's credit, they did not market it as a MMORPG. For example, they made clear there are no character customization choices outside of javelins.

 

The problem Anthem faces is that it fails, or at this point needs a lot of work, on its target and intended audience -- those who like Looter / Shooters.

 

Dasty

 

Well, one part that reviewer focused on later was the load screens and how immersion breaking they were. From a very technical point, that is bad.

 

He also went into great detail about some of the bugs. I am surprised at how many bugs Anthem launched with, well, I shouldn't be but... I figured as little attention this game was getting Anthem has to be damn near perfect after 6 years of development!

 

I don't want Anthem to fail, although I'd be a lying if I said I don't resent BW for how they dumped this game on back burners with zero fire lit under it. My resentment for BW has nothing to do with Anthem though, I have come to realize that.

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Yeah, all great points.

 

Clearly Bioware learned nothing from SWTOR, which is why their time is likely up. It's shocking how you put the same people who destroyed SWTOR in charge of Anthem, and you end up with the same problems SWTOR suffers from in Anthem...

 

But they are different studios, aren't they?

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But they are different studios, aren't they?

 

It was split between the Austin and Edmonton offices, though I think the Edmonton office was primary

 

I'm starting to think though the the source of many problems recently lies a bit higher up the food chain. We have some indication that EA is interfering with BWs choices of developing games (ex. their repeated refusal to let them make KOTOR 3). They clearly wanted something to compete with other popular shooters like Destiny to try and bring players back into the EA fold, so they picked one of their star studios to take a crack at it, even though it was a totally inappropriate choice.

 

 

That being said, there is a very low chance this will actually kill the company. There was a bunch of Kotaku inspired doom awhile back that BW had bet everything on Anthem (same time they said TOR development was ending to support Anthem, which clearly didn't happen (despite what it may feel like sometimes)), however they are already pushing ahead on Dragon Age 4 now that resources have been freed up. This is not the behaviour of a dead/dying studio.

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It is getting absolutely roasted on YouTube reviews. I saw one last night that a place in Germany is already discounting it 20 Euros after just 2 days with bins full of copies. The good news (maybe?) is that they have plans to continue development. The road map has things for March and two more grayed out future updates. I'll wait. Other people can sit through the loading screens to get to their grind gate quests while they flesh it out months down the road.

 

It certainly is ironic that the same people that brought us KOTFE/ET and GC where choice was an illusion and grind fests brought the same thing in Anthem. Ironic or foreshadowing? I've always maintained that this is the studio's stepping stone project and it seems to have been exactly that for Ben Irving.

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It honestly baffles me how people can compare Ossus grind in this game to grind in Anthem or any other looter shooter... those games are built on rng grind from the ground up and every waking moment you're not grinding away you feel like you're falling behind. Which is why after Warframe I'm not touching another one with a 10 meter pole... and they're seen as the ethical peak of the genre.
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But they are different studios, aren't they?

I don't know, I didn't think so...Ben Irving, who was the brains behind RNG gearing, is also the lead developer of Anthem...and he's the one getting roasted on reddit over his latest loot nerf.

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It honestly baffles me how people can compare Ossus grind in this game to grind in Anthem or any other looter shooter... those games are built on rng grind from the ground up and every waking moment you're not grinding away you feel like you're falling behind. Which is why after Warframe I'm not touching another one with a 10 meter pole... and they're seen as the ethical peak of the genre.

 

Yeah I mean both the negative review in this thread and Angry Joe's review (also negative) specifically compare Anthem unfavorably to Swtor's storytelling.

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You know I'm laughing so hard over the last few weeks.

 

Everyone knew Anthem was going to be a flop and it's not just a flop it's one of the biggest of all time flops in gaming history! The only other flops I can think of are well just about everything from Bioware after Mass Effect 2 and Failout 76. There's no way Bioware stays open after this massive failure!

 

Really I'm now wondering how much longer EA, Bethesda and other western dev's are going to be around for. When even Act/Blizzard is falling apart you know things are getting bad.

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You know I'm laughing so hard over the last few weeks.

 

Everyone knew Anthem was going to be a flop and it's not just a flop it's one of the biggest of all time flops in gaming history! The only other flops I can think of are well just about everything from Bioware after Mass Effect 2 and Failout 76. There's no way Bioware stays open after this massive failure!

 

Really I'm now wondering how much longer EA, Bethesda and other western dev's are going to be around for. When even Act/Blizzard is falling apart you know things are getting bad.

 

Eh, they'll stay open. They'll try to salvage their live game service (that's marketing speak for unfinished games with full price tags). They'll shift production focus to Dragon Age now. That's the one I think will be make or break for them. Luckily, for them, DA already has a large fan base because after this bomb what neutral would trust them? If it's another boring, one size fits all story that's excruciating to replay, the DA fans will turn on them too and that'll be the end of their political capital.

 

As far as western devs go, I was just thinking I've played a couple really good games lately, but they were by Square Enix. Go figure. Games need to go back to being about great games, not marketing spin and paywalls.

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You know I'm laughing so hard over the last few weeks.

 

Everyone knew Anthem was going to be a flop and it's not just a flop it's one of the biggest of all time flops in gaming history! The only other flops I can think of are well just about everything from Bioware after Mass Effect 2 and Failout 76. There's no way Bioware stays open after this massive failure!

 

Really I'm now wondering how much longer EA, Bethesda and other western dev's are going to be around for. When even Act/Blizzard is falling apart you know things are getting bad.

 

Want some fries with that salt?

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Eh, they'll stay open. They'll try to salvage their live game service (that's marketing speak for unfinished games with full price tags). They'll shift production focus to Dragon Age now. That's the one I think will be make or break for them. Luckily, for them, DA already has a large fan base because after this bomb what neutral would trust them? If it's another boring, one size fits all story that's excruciating to replay, the DA fans will turn on them too and that'll be the end of their political capital.

 

As far as western devs go, I was just thinking I've played a couple really good games lately, but they were by Square Enix. Go figure. Games need to go back to being about great games, not marketing spin and paywalls.

LOL

 

No one trusts them after DA2 and DAI. Oh and lets not forget how they stabbed people in the back with ME3 and TOR. Really they should have told Sony to keep SWG up, after TOR even the NGE was a masterpiece. Fact is we the gamers are winning people are waking up to how badly things are. TheQuarting just reported that Anthem is already going into half off bins lol.

 

Dev's need to learn come out with what we want and those games need to be bug free have no microtransactions and no politics.

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A friend who likes that kind of game told me that "Anthem was even worse than Fallout 76", and - she claimed - that was the nicest thing she could say about it.

 

What were EA thinking moving Ben to a Lead Producer position at Anthem after his disastrous tenure as LP here?

 

All The Best

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No one trusts them after DA2 and DAI. Oh and lets not forget how they stabbed people in the back with ME3 and TOR. Really they should have told Sony to keep SWG up, after TOR even the NGE was a masterpiece. Fact is we the gamers are winning people are waking up to how badly things are. TheQuarting just reported that Anthem is already going into half off bins lol.

Yeah Inquisition was so hated, it totally didn't won GOTY, or made a ton of money, at all. Go play the SWG emulators then if you hate SWTOR so much.

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LOL

 

No one trusts them after DA2 and DAI. Oh and lets not forget how they stabbed people in the back with ME3 and TOR. Really they should have told Sony to keep SWG up, after TOR even the NGE was a masterpiece. Fact is we the gamers are winning people are waking up to how badly things are. TheQuarting just reported that Anthem is already going into half off bins lol.

 

Dev's need to learn come out with what we want and those games need to be bug free have no microtransactions and no politics.

 

So this was just another SWG whine disguised as an Anthem post?

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