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Taugrim's "Iron Fist" 25/14/2 PVP Tank Spec [Video]


taugrimtaugrim

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UPDATE (2012/06/27): the nerfs in 1.3 to Flame Shield (Static Shield) and Flame Surge (Static Surge) have unfortunately made "Iron Fist" no longer viable in PVP. Given the current mechanics, I recommend running Pyrotech (Assault Specialist) or Advanced Prototype (Tactics). If you are set on tanking, you can run a 31-pt spec but understand that your damage output is going to be limited.

 

Watch the video:

| on my blog

 

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This video covers my “Iron Fist” 25/14/2 PVP tank spec.

 

I designed the spec after discerning the limitations of the Defense (avoidance) and Shield (block) mechanics for tanks in PVP. Mitigation is king in SWTOR PVP. The two 2% mitigation talents and 5% mitigation from the tanking stance stack additively to provide 9% mitigation against all damage types (i.e. Elemental, Energy, Internal, and Kinetic) - you can see this by mousing over Damage Reduction on your Character window.

 

The 4-pc Tech set bonus, Static Shield talent, and Static Surge talent synergize to generate a high frequency of high-damage Stockstrike crits.

 

Here is the spec used in the video:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGb0RroMZMcrroZb.1

 

The “Iron Fist” spec has been very effective for me in PVP, both group play and solo. It’s designed to support aggressive close-quarters combat gameplay: you can tank and burn down MDPS and pressure and shutdown casters and healers, while retaining Guard, charge, and debuff capability.

 

For more information about Vanguard PVP, please refer to my free in-depth Guide.

 

I queued solo for the Huttball match shown in the video.

 

Comments / Errata:

  1. I had an incorrect Relic bound on my Quickslot bar. The point made in the video still stands: the level 50 Crit buff stacks with a Relic

 

UPDATE (2012/04/17): no changes for Patch 1.2 to this spec, as none of its talents were impacted in a significant way. Unfortunately, the Carolina Parakeet spec is now history :(

 

UPDATE (2012/03/26): moved the point in Prototype Cylinders (Blaster Augs) back to Retractable Blade (Gut). The point in PC (BA) only seems to buff the direct-damage portion, not the DoT.

 

UPDATE (2012/03/12): moved the point in Retractable Blade (Gut) to Prototype Cylinders (Blaster Augs).

 

UPDATE (2012/02/29): people keep asking about leveling. You can level with any tree. If you want to do a tank build such as Iron Fist, put your first 21-25 pts in the tank tree, then fill out the other trees.

 

UPDATE (2012/02/17): with the nerf to Surge Rating in 1.1.3, burst damage is down significantly for all players and time-to-kill has increased. An implication is that “mana” management has become more important.

 

As such, I moved the point in Oil Slick (Smoke Grenade) over to the second point in Shield Vents (Shield Cycler). The idea here is to get your internal cooldown on the Heat vent (Ammo regen) proc from SV (SC) ticking as fast as possible.

 

UPDATE (2012/02/08): read NoGoal’s insightful comment on the mechanics limitations for Rebraced Armor.

 

UPDATE (2012/02/02): people have been asking about gear for this spec. Here’s what you want to get:

  • Supercommando Shield offhand: to leverage the free +15% Shield Chance buff you get from the tanking stance. While I don’t believe the Shield Chance stat is worth stacking for PVP, the +15% benefit is worth leveraging
  • Combat Tech 4-pc set: for the awesome +15% Crit Chance to Rocket Punch (Stockstrike). Alternatively, if you prefer the Supercommando set bonuses, you can go 4-pc Supercommando and swap out the mods for DPS ones
  • Go for DPS stats for the remaining slots: this means Eliminator, Combat Tech, and in some cases Combat Medic. The priority for the stats is what I documented in the Stats and Gear section of my Powertech / Vanguard Guide

 

UPDATE (2012/01/29): to clarify why mitigation matters and how it stacks, consider the following…

 

Talents such as Power Armor are not affected by diminishing returns, and mitigation becomes more valuable the more you have.

 

Without points in the two 2% mitigation talents, my mitigation against Energy and Kinetic attacks is 45.5% from Armor and the tanking stance, so I suffer 54.5 points of damage out of every 100.

 

With Iron Fist, the mitigation increases to 49.5%, so I suffer 50.5 points of damage out of every 100.

 

Which means that a non-IF tank spec is going to take 7.9% (4 / 50.5) more damage than an IF build. The difference is significant and very noticeable in PVP.

 

By the same token, the damage that a non-IF spec takes from Elemental and Internal damage compared to an IF spec is > 4%.

 

I.e. non-IF in tank stance has 5% mitigation against those damage types, and IF has 9%. So 95 damage taken vs 91 damage taken, or an increase of 4.4%.

 

When you factor in the +10% mitigation buff from Sorcs / Sages, the gap between non-IF and IF tank specs widens to 4.9% (4 / 81).

 

And the above percentages again increase when you factor in our 4% damage debuff.

 

UPDATE (2012/01/28): people asked about the pros and cons of Carolina Parakeet (21/2/18) and Iron Fist. Here’s my brief take…

 

Here is what you gain with Carolina Parakeet:

+ improved ranged capability

+ better burst mechanics when Prototype Particle Accelerator (Ionic Accelerator) procs multiple times in a short time window

 

Here is what you gain with Iron Fist:

+ better mitigation and CC capability

+ no wasted talent points or set bonuses

 

They are both excellent specs – which you choose depends on your preferred capabilities.

Edited by taugrimtaugrim
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Hi there

 

How would u compare surviveability vs dps in your Ironfistspec vs this spec:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801bMZMsZfhMbdGGMs.1

 

For me the assault spec offers a lot more crits, HIB and incendiary round.

 

4/6/31 is our highest burst and sustained DPS spec. I've played it and the damage output is superb.

 

That being said, it has several downsides:

- it lacks a charge or in-combat sprint

- it's squishy

- the spec has no synergy with Guard

- the CC capability relative to other specs is limited

 

4/6/31 basically is "a good defense is a good offense".

 

Iron Fist offers much more utility and survivability. The difference when taking focus fire is night-and-day.

 

So it really depends on whether you want to be an all-out DPS or an offensive tank. The latter is more what I'm looking for, and the reason I rolled a can-tank AC in the first place.

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This is the spec I want to wind up with on my leveling Vanguard.

 

Can you tank PvE content with this build, though? And I know that Absorption isn't really useful in PvP as the shield doesn't really work with a whole lot of damage types, but is it any useful in PvE?

 

Basically, I don't want to have to respec every time I switch from PvP to PvE just to replace a few talents. So, is this a versatile spec in that regard in your experience?

 

Edit: one more question. What's the most effective way to use that smoke bomb? 60 second for -20% for 18 seconds doesn't really seem all that important looking at it on paper.

Edited by LaManoNera
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Hi again

 

U make a pretty good point. I chose Vanguard as well for being the can-tank ( played an Ironbreaker in warhammer for a loooong time ).

 

Will def. look into your Ironfist spec.

I have a few questions, if u have time to answer.

How essiential is focused impact ( 60% reduced armor for HIB), did u do the math on this?

 

I have messed around with this spec a couple of times:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGozRboMZZrI0bdh.1

Gives the opp. to switch from Ioncell to plasma. Still give those free HIB hits I have come to love so much ;-)

Any thoughts on this?

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Can you tank PvE content with this build, though? And I know that Absorption isn't really useful in PvP as the shield doesn't really work with a whole lot of damage types, but is it any useful in PvE?

 

Basically, I don't want to have to respec every time I switch from PvP to PvE just to replace a few talents. So, is this a versatile spec in that regard in your experience?

 

I just hit 50 about 2 weeks ago, so my focus has been trying out various PVP specs. I'm going to start building out a PVE tanking set.

 

EDIT (2012/01/29): FWIW, I tanked my first SWTOR instance tonight, Hard-Mode Directive 7, and the spec held up fine even with only 3 pieces of "tanking" gear from PVP: Champion legs and weapon and Centurion shield offhand.

 

Edit: one more question. What's the most effective way to use that smoke bomb? 60 second for -20% for 18 seconds doesn't really seem all that important looking at it on paper.

 

Exactly how I stated in the video. Use it to debuff IA/Smuggler and Sith Warrior / Jedi Knight opponents.

 

I've debated dropping the debuff to put the 2nd point in Shield Cycler. TBD.

Edited by taugrimtaugrim
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U make a pretty good point. I chose Vanguard as well for being the can-tank ( played an Ironbreaker in warhammer for a loooong time ).

 

Yep, I played WAR too. If you followed Swordmaster on the warhammeralliance.com forums, you may have seen my SM Guide and PVP videos.

 

How essiential is focused impact ( 60% reduced armor for HIB), did u do the math on this?

 

It's an awesome talent and what makes HIB crit for over 2k.

 

I have messed around with this spec a couple of times:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGozRboMZZrI0bdh.1

Gives the opp. to switch from Ioncell to plasma. Still give those free HIB hits I have come to love so much ;-)

Any thoughts on this?

 

Assuming you're using the tanking cell, you have 2 wasted talent points in II, put them in PCS instead.

 

Swap the Static Surge points for FI, esp for an 18+ pt Assault Spec build.

Edited by taugrimtaugrim
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Nice movie, but I'm blown away that you got to play Huttball with another Republic team!

 

On what server is there enough Republic to actually have same-faction Huttball? My queue times are 15-20 minutes because there's not enough Republic to fill a single game. And this is on weekends during prime time!

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We often have republic vs republic on The Crucible Pits also, there are more Imperial players though so I'm not sure why it happens, perhaps they are all carebears? :p

 

There were a ton of Empire players on Ajunta Pall who queued up for warzones when it was 10-50.

 

Since 1.1 went live with the separate 50s bracket, Empire has been losing the majority of warzones I've participated in for both brackets on our server. The # of Empire players queuing for warzones has dropped.

 

If you play Empire and want a server with a healthy Republic population and competent players, roll Empire on Ajunta Pall.

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Really interesting build.

 

I just have a few "general" questions:

 

- you talk about an aoe stun,which skill? Does Stealth Scan stun immobilize everyone in the radius with the 2 talent points?

- does taunt also work in pvp?(the 50% damage reduction) - if yes,damn I must have been a horrible pvp player... glad iam not 50 yet :D

- should I be the first one to open the fight? Should I hang a bit in the back(<10m Range tho)

 

But I will definitely check your build out.

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- you talk about an aoe stun,which skill? Does Stealth Scan stun immobilize everyone in the radius with the 2 talent points?

 

You get the PBAoE stun Neural Surge at level 46 IIRC.

 

- does taunt also work in pvp?(the 50% damage reduction) - if yes,damn I must have been a horrible pvp player... glad iam not 50 yet :D

 

Taunt reduces damage of your target by 30% if they're attacking anyone but you.

 

- should I be the first one to open the fight? Should I hang a bit in the back(<10m Range tho)

 

This spec is designed to support an aggressive playstyle.

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I dont know Taugrim.

18 assault offers rather nice energy gain from when you are ccd and a 2% extra defence from stealth scan.

Not to mention a strong synergy between shield and assault when it comes to HIB procs.

 

Im 23/0/18 myself and the damage I can pull is rather amazing for generally being a tank.

 

Im considering going Supercommando instead of tech, especially since I can see my shield proccing alot, and I just feel that it does help quite much.

Yes, vs sith inqs its close to useless, but given the amount of melee classes played, Marauders, assasins etc, and on these so many of their attacks is absorbed by my shield.

 

If and when they will make the setbonuses mods, so you can move them around. Then I feel supercommando with 15% stockstrike crits would be top of the pops.

 

But above all, I definately feel that whatever spec you do, unless you want full assault, I definately recomend 23 in Shield. Storm alone makes you able to play a completely different game.

Personally Im using embraced armor for 16% more armor, since armor is maybe the biggest factor in damage mitigation in this game. 16% additional armor adds up to quite some more damage mitigation. Honestly though I have not checked if those 2 points maybe are more worth spending into 2% damage reduction vs all.

 

I feel that the vanguards true strenght lies in being able to be a heavy tank and still do damage.

 

As of many of you, I too played Warhammer. I quit before rr80 back in the days, at a steady rr79 with my Chosen. As a side note, its probably the most fun class ive played in any MMO. A tad over the top before some nerfs hit it though.

 

Vanguard can become a powerhouse dps with the assault tree and thats what I like the most with this class. The versatility, going from a hard nut to crach to a dps machine that places mercs in shame if played correctly.

 

On another note. With the super commando set you can go straight into the hardest Hardmode flashpoint as you have the gear it takes:-)

 

Always a pleasure to read what you write mr T.

Edited by Waagabond
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18 assault offers rather nice energy gain from when you are ccd and a 2% extra defence from stealth scan.

 

So I tried PCS for several dozen matches. I was really hoping it would provide meaningful Ammo regeneration, but it didn't in practice.

 

Why not? If you consider 3 of the 4 CC categories for PCS that generate Ammo, they are conditions in which you can't do anything, so you are already not consuming Ammo and instead passively regenerating it.

 

Not to mention a strong synergy between shield and assault when it comes to HIB procs.

 

Not getting your point here. What is the synergy specifically?

 

Im considering going Supercommando instead of tech, especially since I can see my shield proccing alot, and I just feel that it does help quite much.

 

Stacking passive mitigation > Shield, because Shield only procs when all of the following are true:

1. the attack is Melee or Ranged, not Force or Tech

2. the attack was not Defense'd

3. the attack was not a Crit. Keep in mind that Crit Chance can push Shield Chance off the table

 

But above all, I definately feel that whatever spec you do, unless you want full assault, I definately recomend 23 in Shield. Storm alone makes you able to play a completely different game.

 

21 in Shield is where you get Storm, not 23.

 

It's why Carolina Parakeet stops at 21.

 

Personally Im using embraced armor for 16% more armor, since armor is maybe the biggest factor in damage mitigation in this game. 16% additional armor adds up to quite some more damage mitigation.

 

The Armor buff provides a single-digit increase in mitigation against 2 of the 4 damage types.

 

Honestly though I have not checked if those 2 points maybe are more worth spending into 2% damage reduction vs all.

 

Try stacking both mitigation talents, the increase in survivability rocks.

 

Remember, the more mitigation you have, the more valuable mitigation becomes. And the talents and tank stance give flat mitigation, not a mitigation stat affected by DR.

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I have to give a thumbs up for this spec! I've been messing around with the Storm+Mit builds since hitting 50 and although yes, incendiary round does make for some good DPS I don't think it at all makes up for the survivability. In my opinion it makes for far more fun and in your face gameplay by going up tactics.

 

Stock will typically crit for 2200-2600 / High impact crits for 1800-2100 and ion pulse crits for 1000-1200 / Explosive surge crits for 1000-1200 all depending on relics and buffs(mind you this is typicaly in full supercommando champ gear with crit/surge relic). It doesn't sound like much but with gut dot and ion cell dot it makes for very respectable TANK damage.

 

After Hitting 50 i messed around with builds but quickly fell back onto something very similar to this build and have stuck with it right up to rank 59. It's a very different playstyle from any build that uses assault so I can see it's not for everyone but if your into Guarding and harassing enemy caster this is an amazing build :) mind you there are 5 ways (between stuns, Storm, Harpoon, and Riot) to ruin a casters day! If you really want to annoy them go get yourself some crafted grenades too!

Edited by Corros
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What main crew skill do you run? I went with cybertech but I am really itching to switch to bio.

 

Biochem even with the nerf in 1.1 is still the best for PVP - the Endurance stim alone is amazing.

 

I have Cybertech and am considering dropping it for Bio, but it means I'd have to re-level to 400 so I'm going to hold off until I have a lot of coin.

 

I do love the mod crafting and earrings for Cybertech though.

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Nice movie, but I'm blown away that you got to play Huttball with another Republic team!

 

On what server is there enough Republic to actually have same-faction Huttball? My queue times are 15-20 minutes because there's not enough Republic to fill a single game. And this is on weekends during prime time!

 

LOL @ this. I actually played my first rep vs rep last night. Was stunned when I found out it was a rep team!

 

But anyways I was playing this spec and it seems awesome. Really missed the 2% reduction when I played 21/2/18.

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The only piece from the Combat Medic items worth taking is the Bracers. Stay away from the +Alacrity pieces.

 

I got the Combat Medic Bracers.

 

This changes slightly with battlemaster gear.

 

The battlemaster's combat medic implants have crit and surge, the bracers have power, and the belt has crit.

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This changes slightly with battlemaster gear.

 

The battlemaster's combat medic implants have crit and surge, the bracers have power, and the belt has crit.

 

OK thanks.

 

I had assumed the different tiers had the same stats just different quantities of them.

 

3 more Valor levels to go for BM!

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