Hi,

 

I want to try my hand at tanking in PvP and have been painfully (since x12 went) leveling a PT. However I realized that I had a Sin 55 sitting in the draw somewhere and I am thinking about dusting him off and giving him a go.

 

The skill and utilities seem more about damage and interference than the other two tanks. Is this about right?

 

If I want to guard players is Sin a good option? I know that PT is very much fotm and I understand this is the case for DPS and tank, but A) I really dont want the pain of leveling and B) I imagine it'll get the nerf stick soon.

 

Is anyone aware of any good guides for Sintank post 3.0?

 

All assistance is greatly appreciated.

 

Regards

 

LAM

I want to try out my Lv 60 Assassin as a PvP tank too, but i am not sure yet.

 

Everyone writes, Tank stance in DPS gear with a shield. But in DPS gear, neither the avoidance nor the mitigation is that great.

 

1. you will have about 20% more armor value while in dark charge, but armor is often negated or reduced by those tons of skills which reduce armor by 20% and further by those skills which ignore armor (railshot for example, gore, internal&elemental attacks,...) which are all together really a lot. Flat DR seems to be far more effective in PvP (Invincible....) but a Darkness Assassin doesnt get so much of that in his Discipline tree, only some percent here and there, but nothing what a Juggernaut for example isnt getting too.

 

2. Assassins rely very hard on their shielding. But the problem in PvP is those auto-crit abilities ignore shielding at all (for those who dont know: a crit cant be shielded). And without any shield/absorb gear, a shield wouldnt mitigate so much damage anyway.

 

3. Guarding other people will be a problem for you and your healer when you cant mitigate enough damage, and without a healer you will have problems keeping alive, because you have no enraged defense or invincible.

 

I was thinking, why not go deception and if necessary switch to dark charge?

 

you get 30% AoE reduction, 25% reduction on Dark Embrace (what you have available very often) for 6 seconds, when skilled an utility with 30% stun DR (of course, available to tanks too) and 6% DR through entropic field.

 

If it gets thick you can switch to Dark Charge with +20% armor and guard while still having the beneftis mentioned above.

 

you can switch some gear out for some defense and have about 20% defense. Not everyone in PvP has 100% accuracy so this, combined with the other DR above is quite a bit avoidance and mitigation while still doing enough damage/burst and can still taunt.

 

I am just speaking of PvP and their mechanics, not PvE where its totally different. Please tell me what i not think off, because i REALLY want to play a compareable PvP-tank.

 

Just on paper and seconds of thoughts, Jugg tank seems so much more viable (Intercede, push, jump, Invincible, Saber Ward, Enraged Defense, Saber Reflect, Endure Pain,...)

I want to try out my Lv 60 Assassin as a PvP tank too, but i am not sure yet.

 

Everyone writes, Tank stance in DPS gear with a shield. But in DPS gear, neither the avoidance nor the mitigation is that great.

 

1. you will have about 20% more armor value while in dark charge, but armor is often negated or reduced by those tons of skills which reduce armor by 20% and further by those skills which ignore armor (railshot for example, gore, internal&elemental attacks,...) which are all together really a lot. Flat DR seems to be far more effective in PvP (Invincible....) but a Darkness Assassin doesnt get so much of that in his Discipline tree, only some percent here and there, but nothing what a Juggernaut for example isnt getting too.

In the full Darkness tree, it's a 170% boost to your armor rating. Even just using Dark Charge outside of being in Darkness Discipline gives you 150% more armor rating. Also, the number of attacks that ignore armor are not actually all that plentiful, though they are dangerous. You've listed the 2 major abilities already, there aren't actually many more.

2. Assassins rely very hard on their shielding. But the problem in PvP is those auto-crit abilities ignore shielding at all (for those who dont know: a crit cant be shielded). And without any shield/absorb gear, a shield wouldnt mitigate so much damage anyway.

Correct. If you aren't going to bother to actually use defensive stats, you're going to struggle to not die as an Assassin tank. The difference between 0 defensive stats and going all out on them is quite massive in terms of survivability.

3. Guarding other people will be a problem for you and your healer when you cant mitigate enough damage, and without a healer you will have problems keeping alive, because you have no enraged defense or invincible.

 

I was thinking, why not go deception and if necessary switch to dark charge?

 

you get 30% AoE reduction, 25% reduction on Dark Embrace (what you have available very often) for 6 seconds, when skilled an utility with 30% stun DR (of course, available to tanks too) and 6% DR through entropic field.

 

If it gets thick you can switch to Dark Charge with +20% armor and guard while still having the beneftis mentioned above.

 

you can switch some gear out for some defense and have about 20% defense. Not everyone in PvP has 100% accuracy so this, combined with the other DR above is quite a bit avoidance and mitigation while still doing enough damage/burst and can still taunt.

Defense chance does not work against a large portion of the damage in this game, coming from other players. The reason hybrids used to work was because you could get a large portion of the good parts about each spec and actually combine them, which you can no longer do.

I am just speaking of PvP and their mechanics, not PvE where its totally different. Please tell me what i not think off, because i REALLY want to play a compareable PvP-tank.

 

Just on paper and seconds of thoughts, Jugg tank seems so much more viable (Intercede, push, jump, Invincible, Saber Ward, Enraged Defense, Saber Reflect, Endure Pain,...)

 

Assassin tanks get a pull, an AoE knockback, Force Speed (trumps Force Charge in almost every way), Overcharge Saber (strictly stronger than Invincible on a shorter cooldown), Deflection is almost as good as Saber Ward, Shroud is amazing, and the new Recklessness absorb boost is somewhat nifty. Assassins also get 2 hard stuns and a mez while in combat now, and an out-of-combat mez as well.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Aelanis

In the full Darkness tree, it's a 170% boost to your armor rating. Even just using Dark Charge outside of being in Darkness Discipline gives you 150% more armor rating. Also, the number of attacks that ignore armor are not actually all that plentiful, though they are dangerous. You've listed the 2 major abilities already, there aren't actually many more.

 

i think its 130% for Dark Charge and not 150%, and you dont get DR with the stance, what a jugg gets (6%). When you assume cloth armor gives about 15% and heavy armor about 25%, those 130% would be 35% vs 46% just because of the stance (and a part of that flat DR).

 

Your most common opponents are AP PT (rail shot, -20% skill, blade bleed), Hatred Assassin (Death Field, Creeping Terror + Spreading), Lightning Sorc (Affliction and Auto-Critting not shieldable Thundering Blast).

 

Just a wild estimation, i think its overall 30% of the damage comes from internal, elemental and ignoring and some from the de-buff. There are classes with much more than that, which you dont see that frequently (Pyrotech?).

 

Correct. If you aren't going to bother to actually use defensive stats, you're going to struggle to not die as an Assassin tank. The difference between 0 defensive stats and going all out on them is quite massive in terms of survivability.

 

yes but why am i reading so often that you should be in dps gear with a shield? I would understand a really high shielding chance because that pushes of table, but withough tanking gear, you wont get that high chance.

 

Should I go tank gear or dps gear? or half/half? what about the relics?

 

Defense chance does not work against a large portion of the damage in this game, coming from other players. The reason hybrids used to work was because you could get a large portion of the good parts about each spec and actually combine them, which you can no longer do.

 

it works against white damage. Some classes have almost only white damage, others its half/half, just a few have almost no or absolutley no white damage (concealment operative, sorceror). I dont want to praise that stat, but EVERYBODY got a crit-chance or abilities which raises crit for some skills, or raising crit-chance overall (explosive fuel, recklessness, gear-bonus,....) and makes your shield nearly worthless, so going defense, what still works against a lot of attacks and crits, would be preferable?

 

Assassin tanks get a pull, an AoE knockback, Force Speed (trumps Force Charge in almost every way), Overcharge Saber (strictly stronger than Invincible on a shorter cooldown), Deflection is almost as good as Saber Ward, Shroud is amazing, and the new Recklessness absorb boost is somewhat nifty. Assassins also get 2 hard stuns and a mez while in combat now, and an out-of-combat mez as well.

 

probably you are right about overcharge saber and invincible, didnt think about that yet. But you have to count in the healing you get and that you attack and proc some heals and the longer duration of OS. I am not sure in those focus situations if its better to hit invincible and have a flat 40% against A LOT of incoming damage (+adrenal what makes you almost immune to damage) or OS. I am not a mathematical genius but when 4 people attack you, you will get about 300k burst damage in 4 GCDs. Without counting other things in (armor ignoring attacks and so on) and just count your armor+DR+DR Skill a Juggernaut would sit at 86% mitigation without an adrenal and so will only get about 42k damage, vs an Assassin who would have about 60% mitigation and get 120k damage and heals about 7,5k with the initial heal and probably another 10k with the procced heals. Its very roughly estimated 40k against 100k incoming damage.

 

I mean those situations which really occur, that hard burst in the first 10 seconds. After that damage will not that bursty anymore and a Jugg can hit either Saber Ward+Adrenal for another 40% DR for 15 sec, while an assassin can ... what exactly? Recklessness absorb might be good in PvE but in PvP? Deflection is only against ranged/melee, you said it by yourself. You must hit shroud and deflection to have a similar effect as the saber ward. And a jugg is some of those classes, who DONT WANT to purge dots, because they heal him to full with enraged defense. And Endure Pain heals you up for 15k and if you take that utility makes you immune against movement things for ~20 sec. Saber Reflect is similar to shroud, it negates most damage as a whole AND reflects it back, its on a low CD and i think with the utility lasts 5 secs. Intercede heals you for 8% (if you have/keep the old set bonus) and reduces incoming damage of your target, probably your guarded healer, another 30%. Thats combined with a taunt and your guard means almost no damage for your target.

 

I think its not good to start a discussion what is better in what situations because that would go too far, and i dont WANT to say, juggs are better, i want to be convinced why a Sin Tank is great in PvP and how I should gear.

 

(probably one of the great things is that you start stealthed in an arena and are therefor not the first target, its a good advantage .... in arenas)

Sin tank isn't better or worse, it's just different. Ish, you also forgot about resetting the fight; the other two tanks are in it to the death. Phase walk to a heal node or force cloak with the utility for shroud and rez to full, both of which the other tanks can't do. I could go on and on but I'd just be repeating Aelanis who already covered most of it. Edited January 10, 2015 by Ridickilis

Sin tank isn't better or worse, it's just different. Ish, you also forgot about resetting the fight; the other two tanks are in it to the death. Phase walk to a heal node or force cloak with the utility for shroud and rez to full, both of which the other tanks can't do. I could go on and on but I'd just be repeating Aelanis who already covered most of it.

 

Oh and yes auto crits do ignore shield chance but transferred guard damage is never considered a crit and it does trigger a shield chance.

 

Ok, some good information.

 

Resetting the fight? I understand, but it's nothing I really want as a tank (with a healer; without its something different). I want him and me to survive. When I phase walk, my healer dies, and probably already has as I needed to phase walk.

 

what about gear? Dps gear or tank gear? My fully augmented exhumed sin has 31,xx DR in dark charge in dps gear in deception spec

My jugg in shien spec in soresu with mixed gear, mostly obroan, some exhumed, some 172 PvE has 48,xx DR, dps gear!

 

Probably darkness spec does more damage than immortal?

 

I like the playstyle of a sin more, it feels faster and more mobile but I don't want to be the second hand PvP tank.

i think its 130% for Dark Charge and not 150%, and you dont get DR with the stance, what a jugg gets (6%). When you assume cloth armor gives about 15% and heavy armor about 25%, those 130% would be 35% vs 46% just because of the stance (and a part of that flat DR).

 

Your most common opponents are AP PT (rail shot, -20% skill, blade bleed), Hatred Assassin (Death Field, Creeping Terror + Spreading), Lightning Sorc (Affliction and Auto-Critting not shieldable Thundering Blast).

 

Just a wild estimation, i think its overall 30% of the damage comes from internal, elemental and ignoring and some from the de-buff. There are classes with much more than that, which you dont see that frequently (Pyrotech?).

You're correct, I got the numbers wrong off the top of my head, it is 130% and 150%.

yes but why am i reading so often that you should be in dps gear with a shield? I would understand a really high shielding chance because that pushes of table, but withough tanking gear, you wont get that high chance.

 

Should I go tank gear or dps gear? or half/half? what about the relics?

Don't go hybrid, it's just not worth it any more. Part of the reason Hybrid worked so well was because of Fade, which you used to be able to grab as a tank, which gave a whopping 30% AoE DR. That, and you could still pick up a large portion of the talents that gave you a large boost to your survivability. Now, that doesn't work. Yes, Depredating Volts will hit incredibly hard (I think I remember seeing 5k ticks in my dps gear, lolwut), but the rest of your damage will be awful, and your auto-crit 3-stack DV has a 90 second long CD. On top of this, your Force regen comes from being attacked. If you aren't getting actively hit, you simply cannot maintain anything resembling a rotation. As we've both said: survivability is going to plummet if you aren't using defensive stats due to the fact that they're a very large portion of your survivability.

 

As for relics, tank relics are still mediocre at best, though they're your only option for survivability. Really up to you if you wanna forgo ~50 dtps or so per relic to pick up a good chunk of damage from DPS relics.

it works against white damage. Some classes have almost only white damage, others its half/half, just a few have almost no or absolutley no white damage (concealment operative, sorceror). I dont want to praise that stat, but EVERYBODY got a crit-chance or abilities which raises crit for some skills, or raising crit-chance overall (explosive fuel, recklessness, gear-bonus,....) and makes your shield nearly worthless, so going defense, what still works against a lot of attacks and crits, would be preferable?

I don't have it on hand right now, but KBN and I (and a few others I don't know because they remained anonymous, though I suspect Kwerty had a hand in it) put together a rough estimation of the 3.0 damage profiles coming out of each DPS spec in the game. You also have to look at the metagame, but there is a surprising amount of non-defendable damage (>50% from Sins, 100% from Sorcs, >50% from Operatives, > 30% from PTs (maybe more, like I said, I don't have to on hand), etc.). With a metagame of a lot of AP PTs, Hatred Assassins, and Lightning Sorcs, we'd have very little reason to even bother with Defense. Yes, it's incredibly good against Carnage and Marksmanship, but so many classes have so much it doesn't work on.

probably you are right about overcharge saber and invincible, didnt think about that yet. But you have to count in the healing you get and that you attack and proc some heals and the longer duration of OS. I am not sure in those focus situations if its better to hit invincible and have a flat 40% against A LOT of incoming damage (+adrenal what makes you almost immune to damage) or OS. I am not a mathematical genius but when 4 people attack you, you will get about 300k burst damage in 4 GCDs. Without counting other things in (armor ignoring attacks and so on) and just count your armor+DR+DR Skill a Juggernaut would sit at 86% mitigation without an adrenal and so will only get about 42k damage, vs an Assassin who would have about 60% mitigation and get 120k damage and heals about 7,5k with the initial heal and probably another 10k with the procced heals. Its very roughly estimated 40k against 100k incoming damage.

Ah, but Invincible doesn't give a flat 40% reduction to them. It's really worth only ~20% or so. It reduces incoming damage by 40%. It's multiplicative with your DR, versus OS being additive, and so it's worth less unless you're at ~10% base DR against an attack.

 

Very few sets of 4 classes in the game can do 300k in 4 globals. That's an absurd 12.5k dps from each of them. Let's say you will see that kind of damage though (it can happen, it's just very rare). A Juggernaut will have roughly 47% DR, with an Assassin having roughly 39% DR standard (those were reasonable numbers in 2.10 for PvP gear), counting armor plus all standard buffs (Dark Protection, Aegis Assault, etc.). With that 300k incoming damage, using just Invincible and OS, we'd see: 300k * (1-.47) * (1-.4) = 95,400 for the Juggernaut and 300k * (1 - .64) = 108,000 damage for the Assassin. This, of course, assumes you can't shield or defend any of the damage. If you could benefit from the full healing of OS against that 300k damage, you would come out taking less damage in the end. However, you can't count the initial heal if you want to have the DR against all the damage. Regardless, Invincible is not NEARLY as strong as people seem to think it is, when compared to Energy Shield or Overcharge Saber.

I mean those situations which really occur, that hard burst in the first 10 seconds. After that damage will not that bursty anymore and a Jugg can hit either Saber Ward+Adrenal for another 40% DR for 15 sec, while an assassin can ... what exactly? Recklessness absorb might be good in PvE but in PvP? Deflection is only against ranged/melee, you said it by yourself. You must hit shroud and deflection to have a similar effect as the saber ward. And a jugg is some of those classes, who DONT WANT to purge dots, because they heal him to full with enraged defense. And Endure Pain heals you up for 15k and if you take that utility makes you immune against movement things for ~20 sec. Saber Reflect is similar to shroud, it negates most damage as a whole AND reflects it back, its on a low CD and i think with the utility lasts 5 secs. Intercede heals you for 8% (if you have/keep the old set bonus) and reduces incoming damage of your target, probably your guarded healer, another 30%. Thats combined with a taunt and your guard means almost no damage for your target.

Saber Ward + Adrenal is a decent combo, yes, and it does reduce F/T damage by a lot, but again: it's additive. The reason Juggernauts are so attractive in PvP is because they have a LOT of DCDs, which the other two classes don't. Deflection, on a use by use basis, will not stop as much damage as Saber Ward, but is still better over time due to vastly superior uptime over a long period of time. However, that doesn't matter much in PvP, where fights don't usually last a full 30 seconds.

 

Saying that Juggernauts don't want to purge dots is ridiculous. Of course they want to purge them, that's less damage that they take, rather than having to heal through it. If you're being focused, you very much want to not have to counteract that dot damage as well, and you'll still get to use all your stacks of Enraged Defense. Endure Pain is also NOT A HEAL. It buys you 20 seconds (as a tank) where you have higher hp, which will go away at the end of it. Using it in combination with a PvP medpack is brilliant, as it gets you more bang out of that medpack, but that's the only way it increases healing. It increases your TTK, but does nothing for your hps. It does also protect you from roots and snares, but not stuns, unlike Deflection when taking the Dark Stability utility.

 

Assassins also have 2 purges, both on an equal or shorter cooldown than a Juggernaut's one. Yes, Saber Reflect can deal damage back, but it also does not protect them from AoE attacks, unlike Shroud. However, Assassins don't have a good answer to Intercede. And would people stop counting the DPS set bonus towards a tank's survivability? Please?

I think its not good to start a discussion what is better in what situations because that would go too far, and i dont WANT to say, juggs are better, i want to be convinced why a Sin Tank is great in PvP and how I should gear.

 

(probably one of the great things is that you start stealthed in an arena and are therefor not the first target, its a good advantage .... in arenas)

 

Assassins make for incredible node guards and are amazing at defensive objective play with a 30m single target snare, a 10 meter AoE minor snare, a pull (with a 3 second root attached to it if talented), 2 hard stuns (which can 90% snare the target for 3 seconds after their duration is over if talented), a 30 meter single-target insta-mez (I forget if Oppressing Force affects multiple targets), a conal knockback with a talented, whopping 5 second snare. You cannot have all of it all at once, but you have an INCREDIBLE package of roots and snares at your disposal as a tank.

Well you have to pick your spots. You're healer doing good atm but your at low health? Feel free to phase walk. You're both going down quickly? Well you're probably both going to die anyway, better if you can save yourself and stop caps while your team respawns (if you're talking 8's) than sticking it out and dying with the healer.

 

Thinking VS, phasewalking to the side heal node isn't really that far and no need to drop guard for that. Thinking ACW/NC cloak -> los you can do near the action. Yes, you need to drop guard on the healer for this otherwise you can't rez if taking guard damage but you don't have to rez to full. Sometimes just 3-5 seconds worth +/- 30-40% more health can make the difference. Then other times when you actually get a good healer you'll probably never even think of needing to do these. Just something different we can do.

 

You really don't want to run dps gear as a tank if you actually want to guard people. You want high endurance mods and enhancements when min maxing and use shield and absorb stat over defense. The more dps gear you have with a lower HP pool makes it really hard for a healer to keep both of you up, never mind the rest of the team. You'll be too much of a drain on his resources. So yeah the sin tanking tree does have some nifty dps buffs (specifically harness darkness/shadows) but as a main tank you shouldn't run dps gear. If you're an off tank or a relegated node guard in a premade then it's probably fine, if not optimal. But no ranked 8's and I don't know if I'd set mine up just for unranked node guarding. You could probably get away with a mainstat + power relic for a little oomph but I wouldn't use other dps gear.

@Aelanis

 

Thx this was great information. Those tooltips can be very misleading. Now I realize why I didn't see the DR of Darkswell in the tooltips while I had it activated. It's the same...

 

Probably much better than invincible though, because 25% of 85% is still more than 40% of 50%. At least you don't lose so much of what the tooltip seems to promise.

 

About purges, I meant, if there is one class which CAN benefit from dots, it's a Jugg.

 

again, thx for the info. I did learn a lot.

Well you have to pick your spots. You're healer doing good atm but your at low health? Feel free to phase walk. You're both going down quickly? Well you're probably both going to die anyway, better if you can save yourself and stop caps while your team respawns (if you're talking 8's) than sticking it out and dying with the healer.

 

Thinking VS, phasewalking to the side heal node isn't really that far and no need to drop guard for that. Thinking ACW/NC cloak -> los you can do near the action. Yes, you need to drop guard on the healer for this otherwise you can't rez if taking guard damage but you don't have to rez to full. Sometimes just 3-5 seconds worth +/- 30-40% more health can make the difference. Then other times when you actually get a good healer you'll probably never even think of needing to do these. Just something different we can do.

 

You really don't want to run dps gear as a tank if you actually want to guard people. You want high endurance mods and enhancements when min maxing and use shield and absorb stat over defense. The more dps gear you have with a lower HP pool makes it really hard for a healer to keep both of you up, never mind the rest of the team. You'll be too much of a drain on his resources. So yeah the sin tanking tree does have some nifty dps buffs (specifically harness darkness/shadows) but as a main tank you shouldn't run dps gear. If you're an off tank or a relegated node guard in a premade then it's probably fine, if not optimal. But no ranked 8's and I don't know if I'd set mine up just for unranked node guarding. You could probably get away with a mainstat + power relic for a little oomph but I wouldn't use other dps gear.

 

This part of another thread says totally different

 

 

It's pretty much mandatory with the popularity of Hatred and Madness.

 

And it works fine in DPS gear with a shield.

 

It's about tanking in PvP.

Evolixe says yes, other say no. All seem experienced players, why so opposit opinions?

Different playstyles and group comps maybe? IDK but I do know he likes solo ranked and I'm not really one who should be giving advice for that part of pvp. Perhaps that does work out better in the faster paced arena's but the slow slogs that are 8's I found tank gear works out better for me.

 

I've also done a fair bit of healing on my sorc, some on an operative, and I can defiantly tell when any tank is in dps gear. They're a real pain to keep up with, more so if they're guarding me. It's alright if they're playing like a dps and not using guard but as soon as they're taking 50% of someone else's damage + their own is when the problems start. At that point they're not really tanks anymore though.

 

If we still had the self heals I'd say it would be more viable. When they got rid of that for the 4% DR on force lightening it kinda took the bite out of sin tanking in dps gear with a focus, for me anyway.

 

Perhaps I should have said up front that I'm still sitting at 58 on my sin (56 on my shadow) so I really can't say what 60 looks like after 3.0. This was the way to go from 2.0 - 2.xxx whatever. Maybe it changed again with 3.0 at level 60.

 

Also this. I tried to ask for a H2F buff on assassin's shelter, Aelanis gave me a "no *********** way" lol in a nice way, and Evolixe gave me a "still would not bang" over the other utilities. Everyone is going to see things a little differently.

Some awesome information in here chaps......

 

Based on the answers here what augments should I be looking at? Somewhat surprised to see that there are no augments that allow endurance and a tank stat........

 

How to i treak for endurance.... through mods?

 

I've just switch out my DR relic for an absorb one.

 

Also, what do people think of these utilities:

 

Avoidance

Shapless Spirit

Electric Bindings

 

Disjunction

Emersion

 

Dark Stability

Haunted Dreams (not sure about this one, unless I couple it with Oppressing force which i was told today did NOT work in PvP (two adds)).

 

Regards

 

LAM

Edited January 5, 2015 by Obilam

Wondering the same as the Op, which gear is the best to use for a Sin tank in PvP? Should you go all out tank gear or a mix of dps and tank gear? Some ppl have told me pick shield and absorb over def chance, so should I replace def chance with absorb and shield or mix in some dps?

Hi,

 

I want to try my hand at tanking in PvP and have been painfully (since x12 went) leveling a PT. However I realized that I had a Sin 55 sitting in the draw somewhere and I am thinking about dusting him off and giving him a go.

 

The skill and utilities seem more about damage and interference than the other two tanks. Is this about right?

 

If I want to guard players is Sin a good option? I know that PT is very much fotm and I understand this is the case for DPS and tank, but A) I really dont want the pain of leveling and B) I imagine it'll get the nerf stick soon.

 

Is anyone aware of any good guides for Sintank post 3.0?

 

All assistance is greatly appreciated.

 

Regards

 

LAM

Sin tank is among the best, if not, the best rated tank at the moment and a soft counter to Hatred Assassins. It has very good utility, including an all new healing debuff which can be used as an AoE and if in conjunction with AoE classes; can perform nearly unhealable pressure. It also does respectable damage and has respectable defense on top of the guard to top things off.

 

Darkness is in a very good spot and very strong.

I would highly recommend it.

 

Wondering the same as the Op, which gear is the best to use for a Sin tank in PvP? Should you go all out tank gear or a mix of dps and tank gear? Some ppl have told me pick shield and absorb over def chance, so should I replace def chance with absorb and shield or mix in some dps?

DPS Gear + Shield using tanking set. (Remove tank mods / enh etc and replace it w/ DPS ones) Stack Power and disregard crit entirely.

 

Some awesome information in here chaps......

 

Based on the answers here what augments should I be looking at? Somewhat surprised to see that there are no augments that allow endurance and a tank stat........

 

How to i treak for endurance.... through mods?

 

I've just switch out my DR relic for an absorb one.

 

Also, what do people think of these utilities:

 

Avoidance

Shapless Spirit

Electric Bindings

 

Disjunction

Emersion

 

Dark Stability

Haunted Dreams (not sure about this one, unless I couple it with Oppressing force which i was told today did NOT work in PvP (two adds)).

 

Regards

 

LAM

It depends on the comp you're facing. Can you be a little specific or do you mean overall, or warzone?

Edited January 10, 2015 by Xinika

If you're an off tank or a relegated node guard in a premade then it's probably fine, if not optimal. But no ranked 8's and I don't know if I'd set mine up just for unranked node guarding. You could probably get away with a mainstat + power relic for a little oomph but I wouldn't use other dps gear.

 

What ranked 8s? There haven't been ranked 8s since the launch of 2.4.

 

I agree that full tank gear would be better for reg 8s, but for ranked arenas everything I've read (from actual ranked assassin tanks) points to going with DPS gear.

 

 

DPS Gear + Shield using tanking set. (Remove tank mods / enh etc and replace it w/ DPS ones) Stack Power and disregard crit entirely.

 

Wait, so strip ALL the tank gear out?? Then why just roll a Hatred Sin? What's the advantage of a Darkness Sin with no tank gear? The armor buff? Without any shield gear won't our shield and absorb chances be squat?

 

Again, kinda new to the PvP tanking thing, so bear with me, it's just more confusing than a straight dps class gear wise.

What ranked 8s? There haven't been ranked 8s since the launch of 2.4.

 

Yeah sorry for the confusion. That was my poorly worded point. I knew of quite a few teams that used a sin tank in dps gear + focus instead of a shield for node guarding when ranked 8's existed. Between the dps from the gear and tree + the self heals from force lightening along with the buffed armor rating from dark charge made them one of the more desirable off node guards in ranked 8's. Seeing how there aren't ranked objectives WZ's, and no more self heals from force lightening, I personally don't see the point in dps gear. Just my preference plus, as I say, I don't do/like arena's

 

 

Wait, so strip ALL the tank gear out?? Then why just roll a Hatred Sin? What's the advantage of a Darkness Sin with no tank gear? The armor buff? Without any shield gear won't our shield and absorb chances be squat?

 

Again, kinda new to the PvP tanking thing, so bear with me, it's just more confusing than a straight dps class gear wise.

 

Just throwing it out there that you do get +4% absorb from premonition, +15% shield from dark ward and up to +8% absorb on Dark Bulwark (+1% absorb per dark ward charge consumed, stacks up to 8 times).

Edited January 10, 2015 by Ridickilis

Wait, so strip ALL the tank gear out?? Then why just roll a Hatred Sin? What's the advantage of a Darkness Sin with no tank gear? The armor buff? Without any shield gear won't our shield and absorb chances be squat?

 

Again, kinda new to the PvP tanking thing, so bear with me, it's just more confusing than a straight dps class gear wise.

 

In addition to the armor rating bonus from Dark Charge and all the mitigation that Ridickilis mentioned, you get extra mitigation from the following:

 

 

• Dark Charge - In addition to the armor rating boost it also boosts shield chance by 15% and gives 10% Internal/Elemental damage reduction.
  
• Swelling Shadows - Gives more armor rating from Dark Charge, but also gives 2% flat damage reduction.
  
• Lightning Reflexes - Increases melee/ranged Defense chance by 4%
  
• Harnessed Darkness - Gives 4% more flat damage reduction from channeling Depredetating Volts
  
• Lightning Recovery - Decreases the cooldown on Force Shroud (one of the Assassin's biggest defensive utilities)
  
• Premonition - In addition to the 4% absorb that Ridickilis mentioned, it also gives another 2% melee/ranged defense chance and 2% Force/Tech resistance. It also improves the effect of Overcharge Saber by making it give a 25% damage reduction boost.
  
• Shroud of Darkness - Yet another 2% flat damage reduction and a 2% endurance increase. This also makes Recklessness into a defensive utility, grating 30% absorption for 20 seconds.
  

 

Also keep in mind that just wearing a shield as your offhand gives you 5% shield chance and 20% absorption.

 

Add all that together, and you have the following base stats just for being Darkness spec with a shield:

 

Energy/Kinetic damage reduction: 8% DR + 150% more armor rating

Internal/Elemental damage reduction: 28%

Melee/Ranged dodge/parry chance: 16%

Force/Tech resistance: 2%

Shield chance: 35%

Absorption: 24% - 32%

 

 

Darkness Assassins also get unique utilities in their rotation that help their team as a whole survive better/do better damage.

 

• Discharge - AoE 5% accuracy reduction on all targets hit
  
• Wither - AoE 5% flat damage reduction on all targets hit as well as a 30% slow
  
• Lacerate - AoE 20%(!) less healing received on all targets hit
  
• Spike - An additional hard stun/interrupt while out of stealth
  
• Force Pull - A skill you can use to separate the enemy team and hinder healing/guarding
  

Edited January 10, 2015 by Gardimuer

Sin tank is among the best, if not, the best rated tank at the moment and a soft counter to Hatred Assassins. It has very good utility, including an all new healing debuff which can be used as an AoE and if in conjunction with AoE classes; can perform nearly unhealable pressure. It also does respectable damage and has respectable defense on top of the guard to top things off.

 

Darkness is in a very good spot and very strong.

I would highly recommend it.

 

 

DPS Gear + Shield using tanking set. (Remove tank mods / enh etc and replace it w/ DPS ones) Stack Power and disregard crit entirely.

 

 

It depends on the comp you're facing. Can you be a little specific or do you mean overall, or warzone?

 

Xinika,

 

Didn't realise you played tank too. Most of what I've read of yours was based around DPS, though at the time I was running a DPS Sin.

 

I am leveling through PvE but I seriously doubt I'll run any FP's. I want to purely tank for PvP at this stage. I am running UNRANKED at this stage and not really in any pre-mades.

 

I've been re-studying all of the skills again and trying to work out how the play in the zones.

 

I have a DPS Jugg that I am okay at but want more of an understanding as to what is happening around me and I think a tank will provide this wider view. Add HAUNTED DREAMS to that and it looks quite potent, especially as WHITHER doesn't break it.

 

Regards

 

LAM

 

 

 

I am liking the look of the whirlwind combination but am getting mixed reports of whether or not Oppressing Force works on multiple PvP opponents.

In addition to the armor rating bonus from Dark Charge and all the mitigation that Ridickilis mentioned, you get extra mitigation from the following:

 

 

• Dark Charge - In addition to the armor rating boost it also boosts shield chance by 15% and gives 10% Internal/Elemental damage reduction.
  
• Swelling Shadows - Gives more armor rating from Dark Charge, but also gives 2% flat damage reduction.
  
• Lightning Reflexes - Increases melee/ranged Defense chance by 4%
  
• Harnessed Darkness - Gives 4% more flat damage reduction from channeling Depredetating Volts
  
• Lightning Recovery - Decreases the cooldown on Force Shroud (one of the Assassin's biggest defensive utilities)
  
• Premonition - In addition to the 4% absorb that Ridickilis mentioned, it also gives another 2% melee/ranged defense chance and 2% Force/Tech resistance. It also improves the effect of Overcharge Saber by making it give a 25% damage reduction boost.
  
• Shroud of Darkness - Yet another 2% flat damage reduction and a 2% endurance increase. This also makes Recklessness into a defensive utility, grating 30% absorption for 20 seconds.
  

 

Also keep in mind that just wearing a shield as your offhand gives you 5% shield chance and 20% absorption.

 

Add all that together, and you have the following base stats just for being Darkness spec with a shield:

 

Energy/Kinetic damage reduction: 8% DR + 150% more armor rating

Internal/Elemental damage reduction: 28%

Melee/Ranged dodge/parry chance: 16%

Force/Tech resistance: 2%

Shield chance: 35%

Absorption: 24% - 32%

 

 

Darkness Assassins also get unique utilities in their rotation that help their team as a whole survive better/do better damage.

 

• Discharge - AoE 5% accuracy reduction on all targets hit
  
• Wither - AoE 5% flat damage reduction on all targets hit as well as a 30% slow
  
• Lacerate - AoE 20%(!) less healing received on all targets hit
  
• Spike - An additional hard stun/interrupt while out of stealth
  
• Force Pull - A skill you can use to separate the enemy team and hinder healing/guarding
  

 

Nice post. Made me put my Jugg DPS away for another day

 

thanks

i usually go with tank gear, power/willpower augments, one tank relic and one that procs power

i usually go with tank gear, power/willpower augments, one tank relic and one that procs power

 

Can I ask why power? I like the fact that the Sin can do some DPS but it seems so low that it's barely worth using power for.... at least in my (very inexperienced) view.

 

Happy to be wrong

Sin tank is among the best, if not, the best rated tank at the moment and a soft counter to Hatred Assassins. It has very good utility, including an all new healing debuff which can be used as an AoE and if in conjunction with AoE classes; can perform nearly unhealable pressure. It also does respectable damage and has respectable defense on top of the guard to top things off.

 

Darkness is in a very good spot and very strong.

I would highly recommend it.

 

 

DPS Gear + Shield using tanking set. (Remove tank mods / enh etc and replace it w/ DPS ones) Stack Power and disregard crit entirely.

 

 

It depends on the comp you're facing. Can you be a little specific or do you mean overall, or warzone?

 

Can't login right now, what's the set bonus on PvP tank gear?

Why not willpower to get at least some crit?

Augments ?

The bonuses are WHITHER or DARK WARD based.

The bonuses are WHITHER or DARK WARD based.

 

What exactly? :-)