Yes, this is an issue so important that I feel it's worth putting up one of those "devs please do X" posts… We know they read the forums, even if they don't reply. At least the subject line will send the message that one or two people really, really don't want this to come to pass.

 

Here's the crux of the matter: putting the Nightmare Modes on the PTS destroys progression on the live servers. It sets up a situation where some guilds come in with a substantial head start on at least the first few bosses, which makes the progression race highly unbalanced. Competitive guilds are strongly pushed to get on the PTS (even if they don't want to!) just to combat this advantage on the part of their peers.

 

I know that my guild really only likes doing things on live. We like to go into instances once the mechanics are all in place and the bosses are actually tuned (well, mostly). Also, we all have fairly busy schedules, and throwing time at a PTS run isn't anyone's idea of a fun night of raiding. However, if we want to remain competitive with our fellow guilds, we are essentially forced into a situation where we need to find the time, bite the bullet, and clear content that we would rather wait patiently to arrive.

 

In short, we don't want a situation where "real" top-tier progression is all done on the PTS, with everyone logging in on patch day to farm the instance once it goes live.

 

Unfortunately, because this is SWTOR in 2014, I'm very conscious of the trade-off here. Specifically, bugs. Without player testing, I have serious doubts in Bioware's ability to release a bug-free and stable instance with all of the mechanics in tact. I suspect that Bioware's Q/A cycle is extant, but very long and not very thorough, otherwise there is simply no way to account for the Corrupter Zero situation, not to mention the Dread Masters. The PTS seems to be a substantial source of instance testing, though clearly not everything found on the PTS gets fixed before going live (e.g. Dread Masters).

 

Balance is also an issue without player testing. Nightmare Dread Guard pre-pre-nerf was an amazing fight, but I don't think anyone would argue that it was balanced in line with the other four bosses in the instance. Compared to the pre-pre-nerf Dread Guard, everything else in NiM TfB was a joke (oh, and also bugged final boss). Another example is 16 man NiM EC Kephess, which had its enrage timer nerfed by 90 seconds(!) before more than a single guild was able to clear it, and the one guild which did clear it had to do some amazingly futzy tricks to get it done (3 healing, orbital stacking, and phase delaying). On the whole, Bioware seems to do remarkably well at balancing instances to a specific level of play and gear (the other 4 bosses in TfB were pretty evenly balanced relative to each other), but they do have some very high profile failures, both of which coincided with bosses which had not been seen in their final form by any players.

 

Bugs and imbalance are a problem, clearly. Obviously what we all want is for the content to hit live without any foreknowledge of the mechanics, but also for that content to be flawlessly tuned and completely bug free. So, we're asking for a lot. :-) But if I had to choose between a buggy and/or poorly tuned instance vs a long round of open testing on the PTS for "progression" content, I'll pick bugs and imbalance every day of the week.

 

I think the closest to an ideal compromise that we've ever seen was what happened with NiM TfB and (to a lesser extent) NiM S&V. NiM TfB on the PTS was barely harder than hard mode. All of the NiM mechanics were present, but the damage levels all seemed to be tuned to right about where they are for HM. Thus, bugs in scripting were ironed out (for the most part) on the PTS, but guilds that cleared it didn't really have that much of a head start over guilds which were coming at the content with fresh eyes. I mean, it made a difference to be able to practice the mechanics in a "weaker" sandbox and get ready for live, but it's less problematic than if the whole instance is present on the PTS in final form. The tradeoff here is that the balance wasn't fully nailed down when the instance hit live, because no one outside of Bioware ever tried to kill NiM Dread Guard in its pre-pre-nerf form before it hit the live servers, since all of the PTS kills were tuned to a FAR lower level of execution.

 

Honestly, I don't know what the best solution here is. All I know is that having final-form progression content on the PTS is very bad for the PvE community in this game. I really don't want to be forced into progression raiding on the PTS just to remain competitive with other guilds, but unfortunately there's nothing I can do about this situation as long as Bioware continues to open nightmare content up for public testing prior to release.

its hard to say what the process is. many times what happens is a guild will pull some bosses and write a report that asks the devs to make it harder. i would not be surprised to learn that the devs deploy a nerfed version of the instance to let people point out script bugs, by design. but the devs could be taking feedback into account when people report that the encounter was ez-mode, and the devs make it mathematically impossible. we can only speculate, since very little is communicated in regard to developer intention between builds.

 

when character copy was done on a case by case basis, and some people didnt get in, i think the argument, of some guilds (which got onto the pts) having an edge over others (which didnt) once the instance went live, was sound. now that any guild can devote raid nights to pts makes it an even game. knowing that bioware will likely tune the instance to be more difficult in live will make guilds ask themselves if they want to get everyone (plus alts and fill ins) those last few pieces of gear for BiS or try to get a head start on the next progression operation. i like games that make the community make those kinds of decisions. i dont think being forced to decide between these is a lose-lose situation, or makes the game less fun.

 

the fact that installing the pts is somewhat cumbersome (i have it installed on a HDD, not my SSD to save space) does make me think that guilds might have a problem talking their members into installing the pts. for that reason i could see someone forming an argument against nim pts content, but one could counter that resources and dedication are part of world progression.

 

overall, im okay with nim pts content, since i dont think any guild has an edge, since any guild can have its members install the pts.

I'd rather have non broken bosses as a result from testing vs. broken bosses and fairness.

 

I recall many things in Nim SnV and TFB that were not difficult but simply broken (Such as the amount of deaths in the first stage of Olok, Or that to this day Cartel Warlords is dominated by RNG and not skill).

 

A compromise could be they only put certain bosses on the PTS that would be questionable in terms of mechanics, however completely eliminating such a process would only result in the content being of lower quality.

I also have no problem with testing Nightmare mode on the PTS. If you are competing for world progression, you'll go on the PTS anyway which every player has access to, and if you are not that hardcore, you already have a few guides for the fights and don't need to figure them out yourselves.

 

Your suggestion would not lead to a better progression race IMO but make it more susceptible to luck. For example, a guild could be running a composition that makes this fight very hard, while other guilds could be one-shotting the boss. Or they might miss a mechanic that is required to beat this fight.

When the content is on the PTS, guilds can prepare other toons or strategies so every guild is on the same level when the content is released.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Jerba

I'd rather have non broken bosses as a result from testing vs. broken bosses and fairness.

 

I recall many things in Nim SnV and TFB that were not difficult but simply broken (Such as the amount of deaths in the first stage of Olok, Or that to this day Cartel Warlords is dominated by RNG and not skill).

 

A compromise could be they only put certain bosses on the PTS that would be questionable in terms of mechanics, however completely eliminating such a process would only result in the content being of lower quality.

 

Yeah, I'd prefer if they left the mechanics the same on the PTS, but just buffed the boss dps and hp.

 

Remember how the Dread Guard were massively buffed from PTS to Live and then they nerfed them twice?

 

The 1st nerf was excellent (2nd was a bit much). So if they increase NiM PTS bosses HP by 20% and DPS by 15% that should make the live version a bit more lively, rather than merely another dress rehearsal.

I have little faith that the devs actually TEST anything on the PTS, as the bugs that players come across on PTS then proceed to go live and get emergency patches to fix. It should really be no problem to remove NiM modes from PTS for this reason.

About to say. You need testing for this content or else there is a chance that balance is off. Sure there is some unfair advantages on the PTS for testing, but it's the cost so that there isn't some glaring bug that makes the final edition of the bosses too easy or too hard.

 

Honestly you're never going to get a general consensus on this topic. There are plenty of arguments for both sides. It'll be up to bio ware to decide, but based on track record ****'ll be on the PTS.

Edited January 28, 2014 by mastirkal

Yeah, I'd prefer if they left the mechanics the same on the PTS, but just buffed the boss dps and hp.

 

Remember how the Dread Guard were massively buffed from PTS to Live and then they nerfed them twice?

 

The 1st nerf was excellent (2nd was a bit much). So if they increase NiM PTS bosses HP by 20% and DPS by 15% that should make the live version a bit more lively, rather than merely another dress rehearsal.

 

No that is absolutely nowhere close to even being in the same ballpark as my post.

There is nothing unfair about the process now that PTS character copy is universal, so I don't accept the premise your complaint relies on, thus it is invalid. Without that premise, your post boils down to this paraphrase - "I want to be able to compete but I don't want to put in the work required to compete."

 

p.s. WoW puts heroic raids on PTR. This is not an aberrant process.

 

tl;dr boo hoo

Edited January 28, 2014 by FridgeLM

I get your concern and can agree on many fronts. At the same time when a boss comes out that ends up being underwhelming and soon after, on live, they buff him or her up it kills the progression battle too. I'd prefer to see a slightly easier form of the NiM content on PTS and then when it goes live it is buffed up a bit.

I disagree. Did you ever play TFB NiM on PTS? Devs listened to the feedback and made every fight a LOT harder. They also fixed critical bugs (last boss). I actually never played SV NiM on PTS, but I feel the live version was very well tuned. Atleast on my server, only the actual good guilds cleared it.

 

DP/DF NiM needs to be on PTS to avoid those gamebreaking bugs. I agree with using a nerfed version. In an ideal world, it'd be first seen when it went live, but I don't want another Dread Council HM that required hotfix to be killable.

 

I'd rather want a petition (even though I hate them) for BioWare to not put DF and DP on live at the same time.

I'm with KBN. It'll be a while before NiM comes out, totaling over six months likely from 2.4. Guilds had this content dead in 2 days or less if I recall after it went live. The subsequent months have been 4-5th groups of alts getting geared up and generally boring PvE play. 99% of guilds went to Dulfy for strats instead of embarking on the game with fresh eyes and sense of adventure.

 

For the naysayers I'm reading on this thread, stop using the word 'hardcore'. There is nothing hardcore about the guilds that are high level in this game. This isn't WoW TBC going for world first Illidan kills (which took months btw). Us (Aurum Gaming), Hatred, Death and Taxes, Severity et al I'm pretty sure are running once or twice a week at most for a few hours. There's nothing hardcore about that. In fact, we run less than most casual guilds. The argument of being truly hardcore and getting on PTS and stratting is plain dumb.

 

I, for one, would like to experience the growing pains of an un-player-tested operation, nerfs, buffs, bugs, all of it aside from the internal QA. It's not like the major bugs like Dread Council weren't very quickly hotfixed anyway. That's more 'hardcore' than logging in to a cumbersome PTS and killing the buzz of the new content before it even goes live.

 

+1 KBN

Edited January 28, 2014 by Transmet

+1

 

No Nightamre on the PTS

 

this is cheating in the race down

Edited January 28, 2014 by Aignox

Only downside I can see with having NiM content going straight to live is that having to figure out new mechanics means a lot of wiping, which translates to repairs. I'm not made of money.

There is nothing unfair about the process now that PTS character copy is universal, so I don't accept the premise your complaint relies on, thus it is invalid. Without that premise, your post boils down to this paraphrase - "I want to be able to compete but I don't want to put in the work required to compete."

 

p.s. WoW puts heroic raids on PTR. This is not an aberrant process.

 

tl;dr boo hoo

 

I do expect you to pay a bit more respect when someone like KBN is posting stuff. No need to act like this. Save that for when you respond when someone like me posts this kind of petitions please.

 

I can fully understand both sides here. On 1 side we want the least amount of buggs. On the other side we do want for the competative guilds a real competion. I'm quite neutral at it since neither of my 2 guilds can be considered hardcore progression (only at 5/5 DF and 4/5 DP HM).

 

That having said. I don't like it if guilds need to log on to the PTS for the only reason to stay in the game. Maybe that sounds boo hoo to some people.

 

Option 1 - No PTS-testing

Benefit is that its new for everybody and the most equal playingfield possible (none can argue against that)

Downside may be that bosses are terribly bugged, even to the extend of being way to easy.

 

Option 2 - PTS-testing

Benefit is that bugs will be noted down by the community. Even WHEN they DON'T fix them before launch bioware will have more time to fix them. The 'lazy bioware'-sayers are forgetting that if bugs are tracked later that bioware will fix them even more later.

Besides the downside of the playingfield mentioned in option 1 is that its not fun to have a preview of the mechanics. Also some people can't acces PTS. For example mine is bugged and I cant acces it.

 

If I may offer a 3rd option.

We all know that TfB/Scum have received a buff before going live right? What if bioware does the same with DF/DP but tune it down very very low. And with very I mean to the extend of the current SM difficulty. This way the mechanics can be tested for bugs while keeping the real challenge for live.

I don't know if this would be acceptable since it still gives you an edge when it goes live.

 

a 4th option would be to not have all the NiM mechanics active yet. I dont know however if that would be possible/though to program.

 

QFT

Also, who the hell cares about epeen wagging of world and server first? What are we, twelve? Get a grip, KBN. It's bad enough your constant whining and obsessive number-crunching destroyed the flavor shadow tanks had.

Who cares about epeen? 99% of the people who are actually going to clear NiM content. About your snide shadowremark. Be happy that some people are putting that much time and effort in a GAME. Also you can't deny that Shadows weren't RNG'ed to death at certain fights.

Edited January 28, 2014 by fire-breath

/signed

 

 

 

PS: Overtune certain bosses so we get back to the Kephess 16M NiM days. k?thx, bai!

Yes, this is an issue so important that I feel it's worth putting up one of those "devs please do X" posts… We know they read the forums, even if they don't reply. At least the subject line will send the message that one or two people really, really don't want this to come to pass.

 

Here's the crux of the matter: putting the Nightmare Modes on the PTS destroys progression on the live servers. It sets up a situation where some guilds come in with a substantial head start on at least the first few bosses, which makes the progression race highly unbalanced. Competitive guilds are strongly pushed to get on the PTS (even if they don't want to!) just to combat this advantage on the part of their peers.

 

I know that my guild really only likes doing things on live. We like to go into instances once the mechanics are all in place and the bosses are actually tuned (well, mostly). Also, we all have fairly busy schedules, and throwing time at a PTS run isn't anyone's idea of a fun night of raiding. However, if we want to remain competitive with our fellow guilds, we are essentially forced into a situation where we need to find the time, bite the bullet, and clear content that we would rather wait patiently to arrive.

 

In short, we don't want a situation where "real" top-tier progression is all done on the PTS, with everyone logging in on patch day to farm the instance once it goes live.

 

Unfortunately, because this is SWTOR in 2014, I'm very conscious of the trade-off here. Specifically, bugs. Without player testing, I have serious doubts in Bioware's ability to release a bug-free and stable instance with all of the mechanics in tact. I suspect that Bioware's Q/A cycle is extant, but very long and not very thorough, otherwise there is simply no way to account for the Corrupter Zero situation, not to mention the Dread Masters. The PTS seems to be a substantial source of instance testing, though clearly not everything found on the PTS gets fixed before going live (e.g. Dread Masters).

 

Balance is also an issue without player testing. Nightmare Dread Guard pre-pre-nerf was an amazing fight, but I don't think anyone would argue that it was balanced in line with the other four bosses in the instance. Compared to the pre-pre-nerf Dread Guard, everything else in NiM TfB was a joke (oh, and also bugged final boss). Another example is 16 man NiM EC Kephess, which had its enrage timer nerfed by 90 seconds(!) before more than a single guild was able to clear it, and the one guild which did clear it had to do some amazingly futzy tricks to get it done (3 healing, orbital stacking, and phase delaying). On the whole, Bioware seems to do remarkably well at balancing instances to a specific level of play and gear (the other 4 bosses in TfB were pretty evenly balanced relative to each other), but they do have some very high profile failures, both of which coincided with bosses which had not been seen in their final form by any players.

 

Bugs and imbalance are a problem, clearly. Obviously what we all want is for the content to hit live without any foreknowledge of the mechanics, but also for that content to be flawlessly tuned and completely bug free. So, we're asking for a lot. :-) But if I had to choose between a buggy and/or poorly tuned instance vs a long round of open testing on the PTS for "progression" content, I'll pick bugs and imbalance every day of the week.

 

I think the closest to an ideal compromise that we've ever seen was what happened with NiM TfB and (to a lesser extent) NiM S&V. NiM TfB on the PTS was barely harder than hard mode. All of the NiM mechanics were present, but the damage levels all seemed to be tuned to right about where they are for HM. Thus, bugs in scripting were ironed out (for the most part) on the PTS, but guilds that cleared it didn't really have that much of a head start over guilds which were coming at the content with fresh eyes. I mean, it made a difference to be able to practice the mechanics in a "weaker" sandbox and get ready for live, but it's less problematic than if the whole instance is present on the PTS in final form. The tradeoff here is that the balance wasn't fully nailed down when the instance hit live, because no one outside of Bioware ever tried to kill NiM Dread Guard in its pre-pre-nerf form before it hit the live servers, since all of the PTS kills were tuned to a FAR lower level of execution.

 

Honestly, I don't know what the best solution here is. All I know is that having final-form progression content on the PTS is very bad for the PvE community in this game. I really don't want to be forced into progression raiding on the PTS just to remain competitive with other guilds, but unfortunately there's nothing I can do about this situation as long as Bioware continues to open nightmare content up for public testing prior to release.

 

I'm sorry but other than getting gear sooner than those who do not participate on PTS...just what other advantage does knowing how to do the first few bosses give you?

While I agree with KeyboardNinja on most parts, but I am not sure how much I will enjoy wiping on really bugged fights.

I know this would be same for everyone else, but from an average player point of view, having those fights tested on PTS would make it much more enjoyable wiping on those bosses.

 

I don't mind wiping due to my own (or guys I play with) mistakes. L2P and repeat. But getting close to a kill on a very very hard encounter only to be ruined by a bug could be really upsetting and i could see a lot of people quit raiding or doing that high end content.

 

I know there is no way to make everyone happy, as I do like going into fights with just a brief knowledge of a fight and then fine tune it to our own group, but there are others that want to make sure they are ready to "scream thru it" as soon as it goes live.

 

One thing i can't agree with KN, is his argument about time and busy schedule. If you are doing any ops nights (lets say two nights, one on mains and one on alts), there is really nothing there for you other then get relic/implant maybe. If this the case you should have no problem to stop playing on Live for those two days, and do week or two of PTS gameplay. Whether this is something you enjoy ? Clearly not and I respect that.

 

But i think having tested fights that are as bug free as you can get, will be much better then banging your head at the NiM wall due to no fault of your own.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Macio

About to say. You need testing for this content or else there is a chance that balance is off. Sure there is some unfair advantages on the PTS for testing, but it's the cost so that there isn't some glaring bug that makes the final edition of the bosses too easy or too hard.

 

Honestly you're never going to get a general consensus on this topic. There are plenty of arguments for both sides. It'll be up to bio ware to decide, but based on track record ****'ll be on the PTS.

 

This, the problem is that Bioware does not have the QA to ensure that the bosses go live in a doable state. Remember what happened when they tuned NiM TFB without any bugtesting and dropped it live?

We got a boss fight that was so overtuned that nobody was able to beat the enrage on a kill (so not working as intended in any conceivable way). Nobody was even CLOSE to beating the enrage on the kill. And TFB was so broken that it was jokeytown.

 

The best of both worlds would be VERY limited testing periods, like they've done on WoW. That way content gets tested and bugchecked but players don't get weeks upon weeks to grind attempts until the boss is downed.

I do expect you to pay a bit more respect when someone like KBN is posting stuff. No need to act like this. Save that for when you respond when someone like me posts this kind of petitions please.

 

Why?

 

I don't respect the sentiment behind the argument, I don't accept the premise that it's unfair. How is it, and KBN by extension, automatically deserving of reverential treatment?

 

Since it is not unfair, 100% of the reason for arguing for no PTS on nightmare boils down to these two sentiments:

 

1) KBN does not want to have to log on to the PTS to test and practice the encounters

2) KBN thinks that those of us who do want to do this are playing the game "wrong" in some sense. This is evidenced in the expression of the idea that somehow the race on live is "wrecked" by the fact it can be practiced on PTS. To paraphrase, "Stop playing the game the way I don't like."

 

Both of these sentiments are emotional in nature and based on narrow, self-centered perspectives. Since the premise that PTS is unfair is flat-out untrue there's no reason I should respect this selfish mentality and I'm going to be flippant with my dismissal of it.

I can respect KBN's ability to do maths but I feel like he reaches too far.

 

He is not on the cutting edge of progression, really, and that's okay, but to then make all these comments and assumptions about the cutting edge of progression is overreaching his expertise. I don't think it's mean to call him on it.

Why?

 

I don't respect the sentiment behind the argument, I don't accept the premise that it's unfair. How is it, and KBN by extension, automatically deserving of reverential treatment?

 

Since it is not unfair, 100% of the reason for arguing for no PTS on nightmare boils down to these two sentiments:

 

1) KBN does not want to have to log on to the PTS to test and practice the encounters

2) KBN thinks that those of us who do want to do this are playing the game "wrong" in some sense. This is evidenced in the expression of the idea that somehow the race on live is "wrecked" by the fact it can be practiced on PTS. To paraphrase, "Stop playing the game the way I don't like."

 

Both of these sentiments are emotional in nature and based on narrow, self-centered perspectives. Since the premise that PTS is unfair is flat-out untrue there's no reason I should respect this selfish mentality and I'm going to be flippant with my dismissal of it.

 

Well, you can act the way you want to ofc. But I think KBN has proved that he isnt someone who makes boo hoo posts. You may disagree with him but thats no reason to react with a degrading and dismissive boo hoo.

 

A lot of KBN's post really can't be argued against. Somehow you try to do that.

Its a 100% giving fact that not everybody can/will/wants to log unto the PTS. How can you deny this? KBN says his guild doesnt like it therefore you allready lost some people who don't mind to do PTS opsing.

 

Can't log:

- PTS bugged (for people like me)

- No room on HDD (very small and unlikely chance but nevertheless still there)

- Character copy bugs

- Not enough guildies who can log the PTS

 

Will not log / Doesnt want to log

- People who dont think its fair to have a preview

- People who dont want to fight bugged bosses

 

If only a small portion doesnt want to log unto the PTS its allready unfair to those. There's no room what so ever to say its fair for them. That you have another opinion about it is okey. Maybe KBN and the likes should just buckle up and log the PTS to participate at getting world 1st's.

On the other hand ......... why would you be against a system where the competion is the most fair possible (ergo on live) while still being able to raid without to many bugs?

 

Also a petition kind of post is ALWAYS based on emotion. Just like your emotional post about the implant drops at Nevra. Which I agree with btw, but thats a whole other issue. Fact is that almost every post can be considered to be based on emotions.

Edited January 28, 2014 by fire-breath

I can respect KBN's ability to do maths but I feel like he reaches too far.

 

He is not on the cutting edge of progression, really, and that's okay, but to then make all these comments and assumptions about the cutting edge of progression is overreaching his expertise. I don't think it's mean to call him on it.

 

Well, Not saying he is on the cutting edge. I really don't know nor do I have the urge to find out if his guild is. But he is certainly high enough on the progressiontree to not be dismissive about it.

 

If I were making this post I could understand it if people dismissed it.

- I havent 100% cleared HM's yet

- My posting at the forum is alltough with good and sincere intentions not always mathmaticly sound (well, his are neither but you get the idea)

- I'm not trying to be competative

 

KBN has all 3. By default this makes his voice mean something and it deserves more respect.

 

Anyway ..... lets not try to make this fly an elephant (or whatever the english version of the saying is) but lets continue with real comments on this matter which are more valuable to bioware than me arguing with you guys.

Well, you can act the way you want to ofc. But I think KBN has proved that he isnt someone who makes boo hoo posts. You may disagree with him but thats no reason to react with a degrading and dismissive boo hoo.

 

A lot of KBN's post really can't be argued against. Somehow you try to do that.

Its a 100% giving fact that not everybody can/will/wants to log unto the PTS. How can you deny this? KBN says his guild doesnt like it therefore you allready lost some people who don't mind to do PTS opsing.

 

Can't log:

- PTS bugged (for people like me)

- No room on HDD (very small and unlikely chance but nevertheless still there)

- Character copy bugs

- Not enough guildies who can log the PTS

 

Will not log / Doesnt want to log

- People who dont think its fair to have a preview

- People who dont want to fight bugged bosses

 

If only a small portion doesnt want to log unto the PTS its allready unfair to those. There's no room what so ever to say its fair for them. That you have another opinion about it is okey. Maybe KBN and the likes should just buckle up and log the PTS to participate at getting world 1st's.

On the other hand ......... why would you be against a system where the competion is the most fair possible (ergo on live) while still being able to raid without to many bugs?

 

Also a petition kind of post is ALWAYS based on emotion. Just like your emotional post about the implant drops at Nevra. Which I agree with btw, but thats a whole other issue. Fact is that almost every post can be considered to be based on emotions.

 

So your argument boils down to "I can't log onto the PTS even though it is free and open for transfers therefore nobody should be able to either. I'd rather all the bosses be buggy as **** on release, rather than let some people down it PTS."

You do realize that with your argument you could easily go "I don't want content to hit tuesdays because I can't log in or the patcher always bugs out for me, therefore they shouldn't release content on tuesdays, it's unfair"

 

Can you be any more narcissistic and selfish? Nobody's Nerd Code of Honor is being besmirched here, we all have equal opportunity to go on the PTS. This isn't like before where you literally had to beg to be xferred onto it.

 

Honestly, I would like them to restrict how much access we get to bosses so we can still test but not have people slam their ****s into a door until PROGRESSION happens but on the whole I just want the content to release in working order so I'll take what I can get, even if that's unlimited access to bosses.

 

The way I see it, we have only a few options here:

1) The raids don't get tested at all, they probably get released completely undertuned or overtuned, nobody is happy

2) The raids get tested by a chosen few, the bosses get released in a mostly working fashion, but favoritism abounds, and nobody is happy about this except for the people who got to test (this is how it was before PTS transfers were open)

3) Everyone gets to test the raids. The bosses get released in a mostly working fashion, and the playing field is as even as it's ever going to get.

 

So, which way do you want it? Can you honestly say that option 1 is the best option? I'm saying objectively in a "this is the best option for everyone" way, not in a "this satisfies my Nerd Code of Honor" way.

 

Also, here's some choice words from Dominion for you:

we don't like to fight bugged bosses so we dont pts...that way when it hits live it will be bugfree right?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Beslley

Well, you can act the way you want to ofc. But I think KBN has proved that he isnt someone who makes boo hoo posts. You may disagree with him but thats no reason to react with a degrading and dismissive boo hoo.

 

A lot of KBN's post really can't be argued against. Somehow you try to do that.

 

By making this post, he just proved he makes boo hoo posts. I'm glad you're a fan of his but KBN is literally only a theorycrafter - he is nowhere near the cutting edge of progression in this game. His posts are not sacrosanct and his analysis can be suspect. If you're upset with me being flippant, oh well.

 

Its a 100% giving fact that not everybody can/will/wants to log unto the PTS. How can you deny this? KBN says his guild doesnt like it therefore you allready lost some people who don't mind to do PTS opsing.

 

Too bad.

 

Seriously. Too bad. If you don't want to put in the work, don't try to change the rules to favor your laziness.

 

In fact, I can reply to almost the entirety of your post with, "too bad." It is perfectly fair because the opportunity exists for everyone. That you don't want to take advantage of the opportunity is too bad.

 

What's next, boss kills only count if you do them without stims? "I don't want to have to use stims, people who use stims have an unfair advantage over people who don't want to. Bioware, stop people from using stims."

 

That's what you sound like. That's what KBN's original post sounds like. That's why I don't respect it at all.

 

Also a petition kind of post is ALWAYS based on emotion. Just like your emotional post about the implant drops at Nevra. Which I agree with btw, but thats a whole other issue. Fact is that almost every post can be considered to be based on emotions.

 

Except I have solid reasoning behind my Nefra post, whereas KBN has an easily-dismissible premise that knocks down his entire argument in this thread. There's emotion in my post too, sure, but it isn't the only impetus for the post because my reasoning is quite sound.

Edited January 28, 2014 by FridgeLM