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Crew Skills needs improving


EagleRaale

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I've been playing this game for almost a month now, and this game seems very interesting. The story lines is amazing and I enjoy them. However, I've spent more time working on my crew skills than I am playing the story line. Having to spend a few days every 4 levels is just insane. And it's a turn off when I'm constantly trying to gather. I'm the kind of player that loves to craft stuff that the game has to offer, especially to craft my own gears for me to use based on the level I'm at. but I'm extremely disappointed with how long it takes to gather materials to keep making the same stuff over to reverse engineer to get to the better stuff and having to repeat it based on the low research odds.

 

Now I'm level 25 and the odds of reverse engineering have even been made more difficult to where I've made over 40 of the same type of gun and reverse engineering with not even 1 successful new schematics. Comparing this game to the others I've played, craftings in this game is way too time consuming to the point that there's no point in grinding away in this game and I can just find another game worthy of my time, mind you though, I'm a subscriber, which tells you one thing that I'm a fair guy that likes to support the game developers. But not when I'm faced with this insane time sink that. I can understand when this would be something for the max level gears as it would seem likely for it, but not for a leveling character trying to make equipments he/she can use at their current level.

 

So, I'm seriously hoping that the developers would look into improving how the craftings are done while leveling up, so that it's actually enjoyable to craft our own stuff as we level up and not spend so much time working on our crew skills. After all, we'll be out leveling out gears every 4 levels. So, no reason why it shouldn't be a time sink in crew skills as we level up, especially when we pay to play the game to support it.

 

Afterall, this is a game that is declining in paying players and this might be part of the reason for people losing interests in this game.

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There is some truth in what you are saying.

 

The system rewards the long term player very well. After a while and after leveling a number of alts, you come the point where you have a reasonably full book of recipies and can quickly craft just about anything that you need and you can craft (and gather mats through missions) items for sale on the GTN and make a ton of loot.

 

There are indeed a number of things that can be done to improve crafting. One obvious problem / frustration is, as you have identified, the all to frequent long runs of rng RE fails. Crafting works well while leveling toons and is a way to keep them well geared as you progress. To me the larger problem with crafting mirrors the game in general and that is once you hit cap crafting is of no use to you other than making credites. There are a few who can craft mods, armorings, barrels, etc. that are viable post cap. but they are either raiders (not crafters but raiders that craft) or people who have been lucky and REed someone elses product that they bought on the GTN. So like other parts of the game, crafting hits a wall and much ends at 50 (soon to be hits a wall at 55.

 

I would not look for many if any changes or improvements in the crafting system.

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Well, for starters, they can take out many of the purple items that comes from craftings, the purples should only be at the high level stuff, with an occasional purple every 10 level or so. purple quality gears are suppose to be rare to have, and yet, there's way more purples than there are for blues and greens. For every green item, there's 3 blues, and then there's 14 purple items for every green item. That doesn't to make sense. Purple quality crafted items is meant to be a time sink for at the end game stuff, not for leveling up a character. So, either they remove the level 9-40 purples from crafting, or increase the odds of reverse engineering to get these purples to reduce the time sink at those lower level, considering that a character would need new gears every 4 levels.

 

So far, I've been working on Armstech and starting Cybertech, I've been noticing all the adaptive clothing items from the Cartel market and on GTN, I can't help but wonder about the Armortech if that's a dead profession due to a huge number of Cartel clothing items. I get the feeling that crafting is a thing of the past with this game since this game went F2P along with the implementation of Cartel market as a source of income. Really, Cartel items should not be competing or killing off a vital part of the game, to which crafting is what helps make the game fun as it adds a variety of gameplay.

 

Also from seeing some of the post that mentions endgame craftings BIS items will be removed with the release of the expansion to encourage people to raid more for the dropped BIS items. However I believe that with experience with other games that endgame craftings BIS items can still be done, however, add the required ingredients that drops from endgame raid bosses, so then people will still need to raid to before being able to craft BIS items.

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Well, for starters, they can take out many of the purple items that comes from craftings, the purples should only be at the high level stuff, with an occasional purple every 10 level or so. purple quality gears are suppose to be rare to have, and yet, there's way more purples than there are for blues and greens. For every green item, there's 3 blues, and then there's 14 purple items for every green item. That doesn't to make sense. Purple quality crafted items is meant to be a time sink for at the end game stuff, not for leveling up a character. So, either they remove the level 9-40 purples from crafting, or increase the odds of reverse engineering to get these purples to reduce the time sink at those lower level, considering that a character would need new gears every 4 levels.

 

So far, I've been working on Armstech and starting Cybertech, I've been noticing all the adaptive clothing items from the Cartel market and on GTN, I can't help but wonder about the Armortech if that's a dead profession due to a huge number of Cartel clothing items. I get the feeling that crafting is a thing of the past with this game since this game went F2P along with the implementation of Cartel market as a source of income. Really, Cartel items should not be competing or killing off a vital part of the game, to which crafting is what helps make the game fun as it adds a variety of gameplay.

 

Also from seeing some of the post that mentions endgame craftings BIS items will be removed with the release of the expansion to encourage people to raid more for the dropped BIS items. However I believe that with experience with other games that endgame craftings BIS items can still be done, however, add the required ingredients that drops from endgame raid bosses, so then people will still need to raid to before being able to craft BIS items.

 

You are right in that purple quality items should be a luxury not a requirement. But removal of purple schematics from 1-48 is extreme. I, like many other players, have the time and credits to get those purple quality schematics. Why should my/our alts not get purple quality gear if we have the spare time and/or credits to make it happen? All it does is make leveling a little easier and it is a viable alternative to buying the stuff off the GTM.

 

Lastly, Armormech and Synthweaving are not dead crew skills...It's all about the augments and augmentation kits. I have made millions (by no stretch overnight) just making blue quality augments. No MMO I have ever played has had a crafting profession/skill where ALL possible crafted items are universally desired and therefore valuable. There are three things you need to deal with:

 

1) You have to find out what sells and focus on that. Just because a large portion of a crew skill's items do not sell does not mean the entire crew skill is worthless.

2) You also have to have patience - sometimes the items you craft are not worth as much as you would like, you just have to have patience and wait out the slump, value will increase eventually. And if, by some off chance, it doesn't you may have to either lower your expectations or find another item to craft and sell. Further, you should NEVER put all your eggs in one basket: if you have ten items that sell regularly and one slumps, it's not such a big deal to wait out that slump.

3) Most importantly, the big ticket items are not always the best for making consistent and persistent income. Those big ticket items are no better than "get rich quick schemes." Sure, some players have been able to take advantage, but they are a miniscule fraction of the seller population. As I stated earlier, blue quality augments sell REALLY well and for very good profit margin. Same thing for cybertech and artifice stuff.

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The only thing I'd like to see is an increase in the amount of raw materials rewarded for the harvesting and rare materials missions. Moderate missions rewarding a whole 2 raw materials (maybe 4 if you crit) is kind of pointless and its not much better for the Abundant to Rich missions either. You could easily multiply the number of returned raw materials by 5 or 10 so crafters have a chance to get enough raw materials to craft. It would probably help out by lowering the cost of those raw materials on the GTN also.
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The only thing I'd like to see is an increase in the amount of raw materials rewarded for the harvesting and rare materials missions. Moderate missions rewarding a whole 2 raw materials (maybe 4 if you crit) is kind of pointless and its not much better for the Abundant to Rich missions either. You could easily multiply the number of returned raw materials by 5 or 10 so crafters have a chance to get enough raw materials to craft. It would probably help out by lowering the cost of those raw materials on the GTN also.

 

I agree and disagree...

 

I disagree with your assessment of material values on the GTM. The high level prototype/blue materials markets are already flooded because so many players are looking for the artifact/purple quality materials from missions; players literally have thousands of prototype quality grade 6 materials and therefore their value is greatly diminished. But I am OK with this, for the simple fact that I focus my crafting on the blue quality items :). Lower level materials are in lower supply because not enough players focus on them. This is a player population issue not a game mechanics issue, and trying to "fix" a player population issue with game mechanics will ultimately fail.

 

I do agree though that the moderate missions are effectively worthless because even with a crit, the return is barely worth the investment. That being said, they are useful when leveling a gathering or mission crew skill - they are the first missions to open when a new grade/level is reached, and are cheaper to run than anything else listed.

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I agree and disagree...

 

I do agree though that the moderate missions are effectively worthless because even with a crit, the return is barely worth the investment. That being said, they are useful when leveling a gathering or mission crew skill - they are the first missions to open when a new grade/level is reached, and are cheaper to run than anything else listed.

 

Very true.

 

I try to run only bountiful or rich missions. The one exeption is when I have no missions left to run on those levels and still have companions to send out. For example, if I send everyone out of rich and bountiful UT missions and still have a companion left and there is a level 3 UT moderate mission on the table, I will run it. A few xonolite is still worth much more than the cost of running the mission, so it is no lose.

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Yes, I agree with the resources gathered from missions are awfully pitiful. That was one of the other issues with the crew skills that are time consuming. Having to gather up enough materials just to try craft stuff for reverse engineering only to constantly fail to learn a new schematic is truly frustrated as a low level player trying to tap into the better quality gears, especially as a new player. I'm almost at the point of not bothering to continue with this game and find a game that's worthy of my time with a good story line such as this, but a more balanced crafting system that isn't extremely time consuming, especially when leveling up. World of Warcraft has an excellent crafting system and should be looked at, however with WoW, the heroic raids/dungeons is what kills the gaming mood. Star Trek Online lacks the game play and strategy on top of a weak crafting system. If this game were to model their crafting system after World of Warcraft, this game would surely draw in more players and retain them, because the story line for each classes are unique and entertaining, and having a balanced crafting system will ensure this game remains enjoyable. I'm the kind of guy that likes to take advantage of everything a game has to offer and I love crafting stuff for me to use, and trying to find a source of income to support my characters.

 

The other thing I'm noticing is that as my current highest character is level 25, with crafting of like 225ish, the list of the things I can make is getting way too long with all the blues and purples that is being discovered from reverse engineering. Too many purple items especially for leveling up. I fail to see the need to have that many purples, which defeats the purpose of calling the purples as a hard to get rare items if there's 14 different purples for every green item you can make.

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Yes, I agree with the resources gathered from missions are awfully pitiful. That was one of the other issues with the crew skills that are time consuming. Having to gather up enough materials just to try craft stuff for reverse engineering only to constantly fail to learn a new schematic is truly frustrated as a low level player trying to tap into the better quality gears, especially as a new player. I'm almost at the point of not bothering to continue with this game and find a game that's worthy of my time with a good story line such as this, but a more balanced crafting system that isn't extremely time consuming, especially when leveling up. World of Warcraft has an excellent crafting system and should be looked at, however with WoW, the heroic raids/dungeons is what kills the gaming mood. Star Trek Online lacks the game play and strategy on top of a weak crafting system. If this game were to model their crafting system after World of Warcraft, this game would surely draw in more players and retain them, because the story line for each classes are unique and entertaining, and having a balanced crafting system will ensure this game remains enjoyable. I'm the kind of guy that likes to take advantage of everything a game has to offer and I love crafting stuff for me to use, and trying to find a source of income to support my characters.

 

The other thing I'm noticing is that as my current highest character is level 25, with crafting of like 225ish, the list of the things I can make is getting way too long with all the blues and purples that is being discovered from reverse engineering. Too many purple items especially for leveling up. I fail to see the need to have that many purples, which defeats the purpose of calling the purples as a hard to get rare items if there's 14 different purples for every green item you can make.

 

I hate to say this, but maybe you are trying too hard to get the EXACT schematic you want when reverse engineering. And I repeat from other threads, there is a lot of "a watched pot never boils" syndrome going on - the more you want something to happen the less likely it seems to be happening. If you hit level 29 and only then start crafting level 29 gear chances are you are going to antsy when the REs procs don't happen.

 

When I first seriously started playing this game (about three months after launch), I leveled a Jedi Knight with Synthweaving, Archeology, and Underworld Trading. By doing missions rather than depending on gathering, I was always crafting greens that were a couple of levels above where my character was. Further, I would craft ten greens and RE them and whatever blue(s) I got, I would (pick one) craft those and RE those for purples and I would be satisfied with any purple I got and I would craft one of them and have it waiting for me when I reached the required level. The only consequence of working my crew skills this way was that I was no able to purchase speeder piloting II and III right away (and they were MUCH more expensive back then).

 

The point is that if you focus on the ONE artifact quality stat set that you REALLY want, you will invariably be disappointed. But if you accept the fact that, while leveling, specific stats are not that important because you will relatively quickly get something better, and being fully optimized is not practical, then you should not have the problems you say you are having.

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I've been playing this game for almost a month now, and this game seems very interesting. The story lines is amazing and I enjoy them. However, I've spent more time working on my crew skills than I am playing the story line. Having to spend a few days every 4 levels is just insane. And it's a turn off when I'm constantly trying to gather. I'm the kind of player that loves to craft stuff that the game has to offer, especially to craft my own gears for me to use based on the level I'm at. but I'm extremely disappointed with how long it takes to gather materials to keep making the same stuff over to reverse engineer to get to the better stuff and having to repeat it based on the low research odds.

 

Now I'm level 25 and the odds of reverse engineering have even been made more difficult to where I've made over 40 of the same type of gun and reverse engineering with not even 1 successful new schematics. Comparing this game to the others I've played, craftings in this game is way too time consuming to the point that there's no point in grinding away in this game and I can just find another game worthy of my time, mind you though, I'm a subscriber, which tells you one thing that I'm a fair guy that likes to support the game developers. But not when I'm faced with this insane time sink that. I can understand when this would be something for the max level gears as it would seem likely for it, but not for a leveling character trying to make equipments he/she can use at their current level.

 

So, I'm seriously hoping that the developers would look into improving how the craftings are done while leveling up, so that it's actually enjoyable to craft our own stuff as we level up and not spend so much time working on our crew skills. After all, we'll be out leveling out gears every 4 levels. So, no reason why it shouldn't be a time sink in crew skills as we level up, especially when we pay to play the game to support it.

 

Afterall, this is a game that is declining in paying players and this might be part of the reason for people losing interests in this game.

 

Prepare to get disappointed, I feel exactly as you and was extremely disappointed with this game's crafting skill system, still am. You can not make gear or modifications for yourself, barely even your own alts if you don't play your main crafter all the way before even starting an alt.

 

Gathering materials is time consuming and expensive yes, but it is the low returns on Reverse Engineering that is the main problem with this game. It gets even worse end game when there are only a few modifcations you can craft and the gear you can craft is pretty ugly and unwanted by the big general so there's no market for it anyway. All good gear now comes from the Cartel Coins market in those random packs you buy, you can't buy the gear you want mostly other than from other people selling it on the GTN. Modifications can only be bought with comms if you intend to R.E. it to be able to craft it, and you neeed to buy alot...I mean alot....no, higher...A little bit more. All the gear you get from raiding end game that you can't wear yourself you can't reverse engineer, you can only gear up alts for fun or sell it to a vendor as it is bind on pickup.

 

The whole crafting system in this game is broken and we would be better off without a crafting system at all, really would be more fair to everyone and save BW the headache of maintaining the crafting system(which in anyway is basicly what they've done with the introducttion of the Cartel Coins.)

 

In 2.0 it gets worse still, so we all know what finger Bioware sticks to all of us who enjoy crafting. They basicly tell us to go play another game without exactly saying it right out.

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I am not a crafter, never liked the crafting side to any games that had it, i was the type that gathered the materials to sell, i did it on wow, i did it on lotro, i even did it on sto and i made loads of profit, the crafters loved me, i sold the materials at a reasonable price and they crafted items with the materials and sold it at a reasonable price, profitable for them, a good price for the buyers.

 

Then i came to this game, slightly before the game was released and from what i have seen, the crafters in this game are greedy, selfish and cheapskates, they refuse to pay 2k for a stack of Rubat Crystals, Silica, Desh and let me tell you, the amount of stuff you can make from 99 rubat crystals, you could make more then 2k, but like i said, they are greedy and cheap.

 

I am sure there are some fair crafters out there, but i haven't met them ingame at all.

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I am not a crafter, never liked the crafting side to any games that had it, i was the type that gathered the materials to sell, i did it on wow, i did it on lotro, i even did it on sto and i made loads of profit, the crafters loved me, i sold the materials at a reasonable price and they crafted items with the materials and sold it at a reasonable price, profitable for them, a good price for the buyers.

 

Then i came to this game, slightly before the game was released and from what i have seen, the crafters in this game are greedy, selfish and cheapskates, they refuse to pay 2k for a stack of Rubat Crystals, Silica, Desh and let me tell you, the amount of stuff you can make from 99 rubat crystals, you could make more then 2k, but like i said, they are greedy and cheap.

 

I am sure there are some fair crafters out there, but i haven't met them ingame at all.

 

Now I have not particularly been looking for such crystals myself but when I have been searching for materials I can only use your own argument against you for "gatherers". I usually find the mats in small overpriced stacks. So i think that it's safe to say that the greediness isn't limited to crafters in this game in that aspect. Played WoW a lot of years ago and I my experience was that merchandise in demand was overpriced there as well.

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I am not a crafter, never liked the crafting side to any games that had it, i was the type that gathered the materials to sell, i did it on wow, i did it on lotro, i even did it on sto and i made loads of profit, the crafters loved me, i sold the materials at a reasonable price and they crafted items with the materials and sold it at a reasonable price, profitable for them, a good price for the buyers.

 

Then i came to this game, slightly before the game was released and from what i have seen, the crafters in this game are greedy, selfish and cheapskates, they refuse to pay 2k for a stack of Rubat Crystals, Silica, Desh and let me tell you, the amount of stuff you can make from 99 rubat crystals, you could make more then 2k, but like i said, they are greedy and cheap.

 

I am sure there are some fair crafters out there, but i haven't met them ingame at all.

 

Well, I wish I saw a full stacks of rubat crystals at 2k. Never seen such a thing. Mat prices are outrageous most often than not, that's why I end up getting my own mats. Basically, I can say that mat sellers are greedy too.

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In my opinion, new crafters biggest problem is getting a hold of enough regular harvested raw materials (green crafting RAW's) and not the rare blue's or purples for the better schematics you get from reverse engineering. getting a paltry 2 or 4 green raw materials for your money and time just isn't worth it. They need to double or triple the base return of these missions at the least... I'd prefer a X5 for a base of 10 green raw materials with the crit returning 20. An increase in those raw materials would make it much easier to stay ahead of the Reverse Engineering curve. You can leave the rate for blue and purple grade raw materials where they are for the most part.
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Well, I wish I saw a full stacks of rubat crystals at 2k. Never seen such a thing. Mat prices are outrageous most often than not, that's why I end up getting my own mats. Basically, I can say that mat sellers are greedy too.

 

I agree and disagree. Because the GTM is only setup to list by overall price and not by price per unit finding cheap materials can be a tedious affair but not impossible.

 

The problem starts with the fact that most often the smaller stacks are more expensive per unit but because the stack is small the overall price is lower and so they get listed first. So, in order to begin to look for cheap materials (or even figuring out a good price to sell your materials), you have to start at the end of the list of available materials. The only problem with this is that you then see the most outrageous prices like 500,000 credits for a stack of 99 rubat crystals. The result is that most of the time the best pricing per unit is found in the middle of the list. But the only way to find the "good deals" is to mouse over EVERY single listing to get the price per unit.

 

To alleviate this significant problem, I think that a price per unit column added to the GTM listings would be a major improvement to the GTM and would help with materials pricing.

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In my opinion, new crafters biggest problem is getting a hold of enough regular harvested raw materials (green crafting RAW's) and not the rare blue's or purples for the better schematics you get from reverse engineering. getting a paltry 2 or 4 green raw materials for your money and time just isn't worth it. They need to double or triple the base return of these missions at the least... I'd prefer a X5 for a base of 10 green raw materials with the crit returning 20. An increase in those raw materials would make it much easier to stay ahead of the Reverse Engineering curve. You can leave the rate for blue and purple grade raw materials where they are for the most part.

 

Yes, I agree with this. Gathering mats for a pitiful return compare to the time amount spent on crafting and reverse engineering with all the failures doesn't seem worthwhile of the time. If they were to increase the amount of materials from missions, it would help reduce the frustrations involved with crafting. It's rather sad when a company ruins a game over greed by selling Cartel items that robs the crafting professions of it's place in the game.

 

My suggestion is to look at STO's example, STO gets most of their money from selling keys for the lock boxes that contains a rare ship. So, for Star Wars, they would need to stop selling stuff that kills off Crafting professions and instead start a lock box method to where keys are sold for a chance of a rare speeder or pet or a unique companion, or even a possibility of a legendary weapon. This would help ensure crafting has a stable place in this game and improvements are made.

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What I think would be fun (albeit pie-in-the-sky at this point) is for crafting to have a twitch-based component. Such that player skill in doing crafting actually impacted the results.

 

Imagine a quick-time like event, but with timed intervals, and random events that require the correct option selected in a certain amount of time. The more perfect you execute the crafting attempt, the higher the stats. Better materials would assist in getting better results, but a perfect result would still be obtainable on average materials with perfect execution.

 

I'd play it.

 

Edit: The best gear wouldn't come from the luckiest crafters, but from the most skilled ones.

Edited by Khevar
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I agree and disagree. Because the GTM is only setup to list by overall price and not by price per unit finding cheap materials can be a tedious affair but not impossible.

 

The problem starts with the fact that most often the smaller stacks are more expensive per unit but because the stack is small the overall price is lower and so they get listed first. So, in order to begin to look for cheap materials (or even figuring out a good price to sell your materials), you have to start at the end of the list of available materials. The only problem with this is that you then see the most outrageous prices like 500,000 credits for a stack of 99 rubat crystals. The result is that most of the time the best pricing per unit is found in the middle of the list. But the only way to find the "good deals" is to mouse over EVERY single listing to get the price per unit.

 

To alleviate this significant problem, I think that a price per unit column added to the GTM listings would be a major improvement to the GTM and would help with materials pricing.

 

You do know that if you hover your mouse over the sales price it will show you the price per unit don't you? I go through the list and check the price per unit each time the quantity for sale changes and I hover over the sales price with my mouse to get the per unit sales price. I find the best deals that way. However, I still find the prices way out of line and only use it when I don't have or want to make the time to get the raw materials myself.

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What I think would be fun (albeit pie-in-the-sky at this point) is for crafting to have a twitch-based component. Such that player skill in doing crafting actually impacted the results.

 

Imagine a quick-time like event, but with timed intervals, and random events that require the correct option selected in a certain amount of time. The more perfect you execute the crafting attempt, the higher the stats. Better materials would assist in getting better results, but a perfect result would still be obtainable on average materials with perfect execution.

 

I'd play it.

 

Edit: The best gear wouldn't come from the luckiest crafters, but from the most skilled ones.

 

A little too much Star Wars Galaxies without the make schematic option to plug into a factory. Plus, Bioware is too invested in Crafting is not fun but a side thing and we give you companions to do that so you can go out and adventure... I guess crafting never really passed Bioware's goal of "would Vader do this". Anyway, I don't see Bioware adding any kind of skill or twitch based system especially since it could wreck their game balance.

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Prepare to get disappointed, I feel exactly as you and was extremely disappointed with this game's crafting skill system, still am. You can not make gear or modifications for yourself, barely even your own alts if you don't play your main crafter all the way before even starting an alt.

 

Gathering materials is time consuming and expensive yes, but it is the low returns on Reverse Engineering that is the main problem with this game. It gets even worse end game when there are only a few modifcations you can craft and the gear you can craft is pretty ugly and unwanted by the big general so there's no market for it anyway. All good gear now comes from the Cartel Coins market in those random packs you buy, you can't buy the gear you want mostly other than from other people selling it on the GTN. Modifications can only be bought with comms if you intend to R.E. it to be able to craft it, and you neeed to buy alot...I mean alot....no, higher...A little bit more. All the gear you get from raiding end game that you can't wear yourself you can't reverse engineer, you can only gear up alts for fun or sell it to a vendor as it is bind on pickup.

 

The whole crafting system in this game is broken and we would be better off without a crafting system at all, really would be more fair to everyone and save BW the headache of maintaining the crafting system(which in anyway is basicly what they've done with the introducttion of the Cartel Coins.)

 

In 2.0 it gets worse still, so we all know what finger Bioware sticks to all of us who enjoy crafting. They basicly tell us to go play another game without exactly saying it right out.

 

 

I agree with only one thing about this post... 2.0 is bad for crafters really bad since they will be MAKING crafters raid for BIS items which is terrible design to not allow crafters to make any BIS items any longer

 

However for 1-54 it is ridiculously easy to gather and mission everything you need to craft greens and blues for yourself as you level and what ever purples you get for yourself is a bonus on the way up to 55

 

If you take the three crew skills that compliment each other there is no problems having blues waiting for you as you level

 

If you keep a stable of alts close together as you level you can craft pretty much everything you need in blues as you level which is more than enough to level with period and any purples you get is a bonus

 

At end game you can RE til your hearts content for specific purples if you wish but they are simply not even needed while leveling

 

The only thing as I said that 2.0 will destroy is the ability of crafters to create any BIS items and if you desire them then you MUST raid which as I stated is a mistake a pis-poor design flaw that the deva will end up regretting as it will piss crafters off and people who like to play and never set foot in the hardest raids in games which I am pretty sure makes up a giant portion of the player base in relation to hardcore raiders

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I agree with only one thing about this post... 2.0 is bad for crafters really bad since they will be MAKING crafters raid for BIS items which is terrible design to not allow crafters to make any BIS items any longer

 

,,,,,,,,

 

The only thing as I said that 2.0 will destroy is the ability of crafters to create any BIS items and if you desire them then you MUST raid which as I stated is a mistake a pis-poor design flaw that the deva will end up regretting as it will piss crafters off and people who like to play and never set foot in the hardest raids in games which I am pretty sure makes up a giant portion of the player base in relation to hardcore raiders

 

There are only two ways to get BIS schematics and they are to raid and re or buy someone else's item and re.

 

I never warmed up to the buy and re route. RE is luck based and nothing else and I very often go 20+ attempts to re a 20% item. So I have no desire to put 20M+ credits on the table through buying 1M items to try to obtain one level 27 schematic and hence be able to craft one BiS mod or armoring. I know some people do re the BIS stuff for the schematic and some are very lucky and get a hit early on in the process, but the possibility of getting badly burned is to strong for the non gamblers among us.

 

Whether or not you agree with the premise that raiders deserve the best gear in the game, the change will restrict the best gear to them. To get it you will have to be a member of a guild and on a raid team. Guild members will not get BIS gear craftted by their brothers and sisters, they will have to earn it. A rich player like me will not get BIS gear because I do not raid.

 

I don't agree with the premise and will never have bis gear because I don't raid, but that is the route that BW has chosen and there seems to be no desire to give non raiders the ability to much progress after reaching cap. I think that is the flaw and it is an overall design issue and not just a craftng issue. It, in essence, tells players that hit cap and do not raid to either roll an alt or go find something else to play because you are done and there is nothing else here for you. Not a lot there for pvp, RP, causual, etc. players and from what I have read raiders (especially hard core) are a small fraction of the player base. That never made sense to me in a business that is most profitable and viable through retaining customers.

 

I would like to see a number of routes to bis gear one of which is crafting, but I do not see that light being lit in BW design land.

Edited by asbalana
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You do know that if you hover your mouse over the sales price it will show you the price per unit don't you? I go through the list and check the price per unit each time the quantity for sale changes and I hover over the sales price with my mouse to get the per unit sales price. I find the best deals that way. However, I still find the prices way out of line and only use it when I don't have or want to make the time to get the raw materials myself.

 

I guess you missed:

But the only way to find the "good deals" is to mouse over EVERY single listing to get the price per unit.
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@asbalana,

 

I get that you wish there were multiple paths to obtain top-level gear. And I realize what I'm about to ask is perhaps a tired argument, but I'm curious as to your reasons.

 

In my estimation, the only thing BiS gear does it let you do the very hardest ops. On the PTS, I ran Dailies and level 55 HM FPs wearing full Arkanian and everything was boringly easy in that gear. Had I been wearing optimized BiS Underworld it would have been a joke. In 2.0, there is no non-Operation content requiring full 69 gear, let alone BiS 72 gear.

 

So. If you aren't going to do raids, why do you need the BiS?

 

Mind you, I'm not saying you shouldn't have it unless you raid. I don't really care. But way back when Rakata was top-dog in gearland, and I wasn't doing raiding, I figured I wasn't going to get Rakata. It didn't bother me because I figured that's how the game worked.

 

So I've never quite grasped the reasoning behind wanting BiS gear for some other reason than to raid. Do dailies faster? Something else?

Edited by Khevar
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@asbalana,

 

I get that you wish there were multiple paths to obtain top-level gear. And I realize what I'm about to ask is perhaps a tired argument, but I'm curious as to your reasons.

 

In my estimation, the only thing BiS gear does it let you do the very hardest ops. On the PTS, I ran Dailies and level 55 HM FPs wearing full Arkanian and everything was boringly easy in that gear. Had I been wearing optimized BiS Underworld it would have been a joke. In 2.0, there is no non-Operation content requiring full 69 gear, let alone BiS 72 gear.

 

So. If you aren't going to do raids, why do you need the BiS?

 

Mind you, I'm not saying you shouldn't have it unless you raid. I don't really care. But way back when Rakata was top-dog in gearland, and I wasn't doing raiding, I figured I wasn't going to get Rakata. It didn't bother me because I figured that's how the game worked.

 

So I've never quite grasped the reasoning behind wanting BiS gear for some other reason than to raid. Do dailies faster? Something else?

 

Good afternoon.

 

Your question is a fair one and has been asked and answered (lol, with many different subjective responses) since the advent of raiding, not in swtor, but other games.

 

The answer is simple, what one needs and what one wants are entirely two different things.

 

I agree with your comment that BIS gear makes all non raiding content trivial and to many not worth doing. When I run dailies they are somewhat still a challenge, but I often see people running in top level raid gear and just sleepwalking through. They get the loot quickly but no real gaming experience (fun). I have purposely not bought level 27 mods, armorings, etc. because they are indeed of no use to me since I do not raid.

 

But that said, my neighbor owns a BMW that can do almost double the freeway speed limit. He mostly drives the car in town and stays under the 35 mph speed limit. I eat steak when hamburger will provide the same nutrition and perhaps on a toasted bun with garnish taste as good. The couple down the street live in a five bedroom house although their children are married and long gone. I could go on, but the point is that it is human nature to strive for the best although they do not need anything close.

 

So their is no reasoning, only desire. There is also the concept of limitations. I have no path to progres and grow if I so want. I put as much time and effort and play into the game as a raider, but I will never reap half the rewards. Yes, you can argue, as many have, that raiding is much harder and more demanding so should provide greater return, but to me that is just the way games are designed and not a fact of nature or the way they have to be. It also does not speak to raids on farm which are a walk through. Although it is likely that there has been enough written in response to your question, I will give not the last but one final reason for wanting the ability to obtain and craft BIS gear. That is, those who cannot are relegated to being second class in most ways in the game. The have poorer gear and as we have seen here much less oppertunity to quickly earn big credits (or gold or whatever depending on the game).

 

In the end I have only seen two arguments against players who do not raid getting bis gear and they are 1. you haven't earned it and 2. you don't need it. These are usually coupled with insults such as "entitlement". And one argument in favor of players getting bis gear and that is, I want it. It all boils down to that no matter how stated.

Edited by asbalana
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...

 

In the end I have only seen two arguments against players who do not raid getting bis gear and they are 1. you haven't earned it and 2. you don't need it. These are usually coupled with insults such as "entitlement". And one argument in favor of players getting bis gear and that is, I want it. It all boils down to that no matter how stated.

Thanks for the answer. I appreciate it as it is blunt and straightforward.

 

Again, I actually have no argument with this, and have no personal desire to prevent someone else from having gear. How someone obtained their gear doesn't affect my personal gaming experience one bit. Don't care.

 

On the other hand, when I was in a similar boat, it resulted in me wanting to raid and do operations, which resulted in me finding a group of like-minded people, which resulted in me coming back to the game week after week. So I find it hard to relate to complaints about this situation.

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