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Update on Nightmare Loot Changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Update on Nightmare Loot Changes
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

DisIzMe's Avatar


DisIzMe
01.25.2016 , 03:18 PM | #11
Not a NIM raider myself,but thank you for doing the right thing. Better late then never.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
01.25.2016 , 03:21 PM | #12
Appreciate the feedback. Its good to know that you agree the omission never made sense.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
01.25.2016 , 03:22 PM | #13
meanwhile GSF hasn't gotten anything new in 2 years
SWTOR is not SWG. it was never intended to be at all like SWG. and having a completly differnt design philophesy then SWG will never be like SWG

auroroavalor's Avatar


auroroavalor
01.25.2016 , 03:24 PM | #14
Thank you.
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gabigool's Avatar


gabigool
01.25.2016 , 03:27 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,
The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.

-eric
If you were concerned about the rate of 224 gear acquisition you would have left EV/KP off the HHM table.

Aside from this obvious disconnect, the change is appreciated.

AMightyKnight's Avatar


AMightyKnight
01.25.2016 , 03:27 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly.
-eric
Oh boy. I know its not your fault but please explain to whoever is making the decision about loot in this game how gearings works for groups skilled and dedicated enough to do nightmare.
Pretty much all experienced raiders remaining in this game have ******** of alts to farm 224 gear. I know players who routinely go through a dozen lockouts each week in highlighted hardmode and can bring more than twenty lockouts if necessary.
So gear isnt any issue anymore at this point. It hasnt been for many weeks. Hardcore raiding guilds were done with gear progression the week EV got highlighted the first time. I dont want to go into details here but i'm sure you are aware how to manage the lockouts in EV/KP for maximum efficiency.
Sure, some might still miss the an 224 relic or implant or what not, but its irrelevant if you have your two or three nightmare raiding toons already in BIS.
In short, whoever decides how loot progression works in this game has no idea how it is done on highest level.
Limiting BIS loot to one highlighted operation hasnt slowed things down a bit. In fact it made things worse, instead of progessing Brontes NM all night all week we farmed hardmode Operations until everyone was BIS and too bored to care anymore.
The change is nice as far as you listened to the community for once, but its not only way too late to make any difference, your initial plan was doomed to fail from the start and just shows a serious disconnect between your devs and the hardcore raiding community.

Oh and lolz to you if 224 becomes craftable with 4.1 as it was kinda hinted at in the last stream.
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TopAceOfEarth's Avatar


TopAceOfEarth
01.25.2016 , 03:40 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[SNIP]
However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.
First of I appreciate you listening and admitting you were wrong, but it might be too late for that already. I was expecting this response 2 days after the last announcement concerning this issue.

At this point I don't believe that 224 gear on NiM level will be enough incentive for veterans to stay and even bother.
The gear progression is long over, thanks to Highlighted Bore Mode. The very few new decorations you added have been farmed quite easily in whatever gear was available.

Gear is one of the major factors to keep running content. And there is no gear to get, even with 224 on all NiM bosses, everyone has it already who cared, this will not do in the long run to keep NiM raiders busy till whatever time you deem to reveal a new ops.
To be honest put 230 on all NiM bosses. That would at least keep some form of progression alive.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.
I may go on a limp here, but getting BiS from Highlighted Bore Mode was possible as soon as all items were dropping. And literally and kind of "progression guild" or what is/was left of them/us was BiS the Week that Highlighted HM hit that had the option to get the missing piece.

You literally managed to do the opposite of what you were afraid of. You killed the gear progression and replaced it with bored farm content that you could do in mostly 198 gear and undermanned. If that was your concern I really hope you won't have many more concerns in the future or more of my friends and guild mates will quit this game for good.


So what you did was instead of allowing players to farm gear in NiM (aka the hardest content), like progression works in every game and did so well in this even, you arbitrary made a time table so everyone can get BiS in the same day no matter the skill level of said players, thereby removing player skill and any kind of differentiation of skilled raiders?

What is next, no more gear just bolster for all?
Increase repair cost to punish the people who do hard content, as no one else has to pay the piper (pvp, gsf, story stuff, etc)?

gg wp


Quote: Originally Posted by AMightyKnight View Post
Sure, some might still miss the an 224 relic or implant or what not, but its irrelevant if you have your two or three nightmare raiding toons already in BIS.
You will only miss those if you can't 8m the 16m Ops
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
01.25.2016 , 03:44 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by AMightyKnight View Post
In short, whoever decides how loot progression works in this game has no idea how it is done on highest level.
Limiting BIS loot to one highlighted operation hasnt slowed things down a bit. In fact it made things worse, instead of progessing Brontes NM all night all week we farmed hardmode Operations until everyone was BIS and too bored to care anymore.
The change is nice as far as you listened to the community for once, but its not only way too late to make any difference, your initial plan was doomed to fail from the start and just shows a serious disconnect between your devs and the hardcore raiding community.
I could not agree more. They doomed themselves from the start. People naturally take the path of least resistance...that's been HM Ops that, like you said, people farmed with their multiple toons, multiple times per week. The very people they tried to slow down, they actually boosted. The disconnect is unreal.

That being said...I'm glad they are making the change...but it's too late to matter now.
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RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
01.25.2016 , 03:58 PM | #19
I lost a lot of good friends who left the game since you presented the new Nightmare Loot plans back in 2015, sure loot wasn't everything but it was a big factor and what it means (ignoring and denouncing the Nightmare Raiders), it's a shame it took you so long to just take the right decision. There is no way they will come back, but if you just had followed what the community wanted in the start, most would likely still be here.

I hope you all get fired if you ever take a similar decision again.

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DarthZaul's Avatar


DarthZaul
01.25.2016 , 03:58 PM | #20
Good job listening to feedback FINALLY, but did this really need months and months of feedback (in the form of whining, shouting, twitter abusing and quitting the game) to point out something so obvious?