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Vengeance and Rage Juggernaut/Vigilance and Focus Guardian Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Vengeance and Rage Juggernaut/Vigilance and Focus Guardian Set Bonus Discussion
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masterlukimi's Avatar


masterlukimi
07.20.2015 , 01:56 PM | #71
To balance Guardian with the other classes we need to become more mobile and do more damage. We are already have good DCD's, flat DR, and decent raid utility. We can increase movement speed of the raid (with talent), keep an enemy interrupted for a long time (force kick, awe, force stasis, force push, force leap and there CD's being reset by force push and daunting presence), grant a shield to the raid (with talent), we have Saber Reflect and we can taunt. I know that the developers don't want to increase DPS by more than 5% but considering we are not one of the higher DPS classes it may not be bad to give us a bit more. Here is what I would like to see.

-Saber Throw 0-30 m range
-An offensive CD that increases damage. Even if it is something simple or a small increase I want more to do in my rotation.
-A new set bonus that looks something like.

2 PC-Sundering Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. 30 Sec internal CD.
4 PC-Blade Storm and/or Master Strike damage increased by X%
6 PC-Master Strike decreases your movement speed by X% for it's duration. Master Strike can be channeled while moving.

The 2 and 4 PC bonuses above should increase our DPS by enough to be more competitive with other classes. Right now I switch from my 6 PC bonus to my 4 PC with old Sent 2 PC on a fight to fight basis. If I am doing it right now anyways why not make a QoL change and put it in the same set? Honestly even when level cap raises and a new gear tier comes out if the set bonuses do not change it still may be better in some fights to run 186 armorings with the old Sentinel bonus over two 216 or whatever the rating will be crappy ones. It will be what, a 1.5% DR decrease, a loss of 400 health and very little bonus damage and crit chance. It will be a DPS increase and I don't care about the 400 health and 1.5% DR loss because I am already a hard to kill DPS.

The 6 PC bonus is a bonus I want to get. It will be helpful to me and make the toon more fun to play in my opinion. If you don't want to make animation changes to the ability to fit it being used while moving that is a lazy and lame excuse not do it. I honestly do not think that this is broken considering we are a melee class and already have low mobility in our spec and utilities. I honestly didn't even feel like getting the current 6 PC set bonus. It is boring. I put it in my gear because I wanted to see if it was a DPS increase and if it was helpful in some boss fights. It is but I wasn't excited to get it. On the other hand I would be very excited to get the above bonuses.

Thank you for asking the community about the set bonuses. This shows that the game is cared about as much as the money it makes and I hope that you continue to ask for feedback like this even if you do not take all of our suggestions.

-Lukimis of Jedi Covenant <Republic Command>

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.21.2015 , 08:32 AM | #72
I like the idea of 0m saberthrow baseline, but maybe instead of increased ravage damage, we could do increased impale/furious strike (maybe raging burst instead). To decrease ravage dependency, so that when you're forced to break a ravage, it won't be as bad. Just an idea

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
07.21.2015 , 11:26 AM | #73
For the record, the more I think of it, the more I am in FAVOR of a reliance on Ravage. The dumbing down of the game right now is stupid.

Let me break it down for you guys:

WE AREN'T ACTUALLY FULLY RELIANT ON RAVAGE FOR PVP! And, there's a little known stat that actually makes it easier to use Ravage!

CRAZY RIGHT?

Protip: DoTspread > Ravage in PVP. Vengeful Slam is what gives Vengeance competitive damage. Ravage is useful only for single target burst, and control. Nothing more.

As for landing ravages on bosses, #alacrity.

As it stands right now, if we could land all 3 ticks of ravage CONSISTENTLY, we'd be the most overpowered melee in the game. Notice that all the specs with the advantages of full mobility, and range, are also lower parsing than us (though tactics is still stupid.) I for one, don't want to see our class dumbed down to the point where we have a "Watchman" situation. I'd rather have more sustained DPS and better DoTs, than a dumbing down of ravage.
Rydarus Veneris the Revanchist, Beater #fedaracarrychist
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Last Guardian DPS because dead game

LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
07.22.2015 , 08:23 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
As it stands right now, if we could land all 3 ticks of ravage CONSISTENTLY, we'd be the most overpowered melee in the game. Notice that all the specs with the advantages of full mobility, and range, are also lower parsing than us (though tactics is still stupid.) I for one, don't want to see our class dumbed down to the point where we have a "Watchman" situation. I'd rather have more sustained DPS and better DoTs, than a dumbing down of ravage.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understood correctly, BW wants to create more mobile fights in the future (don't remember where I read that though :/). So, we're talking of fewer immobile moment. As it is now, it can be a pain to land even 2 ticks of MS/ravage. What would be the result if we couldn't even land those 2 ticks ?
And you seem to speak only for vigilance/vengeance. Cancelling a MS/ravage in focus/rage is even more destructive than in the other spec.
Dumbing down a class is not what most people want, and I agree with you on that point. But at least, give us the weapons to fight the next fights. And for now, if BW really want to make even more mobile fights, we don't have those.

Anton_RUS's Avatar


Anton_RUS
07.30.2015 , 04:09 AM | #75
Also juggernaut need this change for PvP:
- Charge 0-30 m range
It's give us more mobility and we can use Ravage more. Also it's good def vs stealthers and another root **** players.

Frenesi's Avatar


Frenesi
09.04.2015 , 02:03 PM | #76
Say goodbye to the 0 meters saber throw...
I just dropped in
To see in what condition my condition was in

Referal with some free crap.

AchillesStark's Avatar


AchillesStark
09.04.2015 , 02:23 PM | #77
If 0m saber throw is removed from set bonus but not made default into the skill, they have just ****ed over guardians and juggs big time.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.04.2015 , 04:00 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Frenesi View Post
Say goodbye to the 0 meters saber throw...
I'm pretty sure the gear bonus is not changing.

AchillesStark's Avatar


AchillesStark
09.16.2015 , 01:08 AM | #79
The fact that the JK/SW changes dont include any mention of saber throw being 0m is incredibly worrisome. We know they change the set bonuses all the time and there isnt anything to suggest they wont do it this time.

If saber throw is 10m again, they will likely move the auto-crit to a different ability but that means the rotation for knights and warriors for both damage spec is drastically changed. The burst for both spec requires the auto-crit proccing ability to come before concentrated slice or overhead slash. Thats the case currently with saber throw proccing the auto-crit since saber throw is an opener. If the proccing ability is something else, then the first concentrated slice or overhead slash will not autocrit.
Any burst that focus/rage opener had is now gone.

LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
09.16.2015 , 09:00 PM | #80
According to torcommunity, the vindicator set bonus will be as is :
(2) Sundering Assault or Sundering Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
(4) Increases the critical chance of Ravage or Blade Dance by 5%.
(6) Activating Force Scream or Blade Storm will grant Vindicator's Critical Bonus making your next Impale and Furious Strike or Overhead Slash and Concentrated Slice critically hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every minute.

And since bioware didn't say anything about a saber throw range change, it means saber throw will completly drop from guardian's rotation.
That would mean, for focus anyway (not sure about Vigilance, haven't played it in a long time) a damage loss. Maybe not that much, I'm not that good in theorycrafting to calculate this, but I'm pretty sure saber throw does more damage than strike. That plus the pretty bad new passive for a damage spec and I fear a bit for the future of Focus is PVE.