Or at least also compre price. WoW expansion are bigger... but so is the price tag.

5.2 on there ptr sounds bigger then this thing never mind there expansions.

Expansions are content updates....

True but but content updates are not expansions. All Ford Escorts are cars but not all cars are Ford Escorts.....

5.2 on there ptr sounds bigger then this thing never mind there expansions.

I take this to mean you yield the expansion point. Clearly you are now reaching for another weak argument....

True but but content updates are not expansions. All Ford Escorts are cars but not all cars are Ford Escorts.....

Glad you agree. I just don't think you realize it.

Expansions are content updates....

The quality and the amount of said content is what I believe to be the core issue with this upcoming "expansion".

And the size, and the amount of content and the game mechanics and, and, and....

Folks who tend to parse definitions usually have already lost the argument. It would be worth debating if the expansion is worth the price, but arguing whether it is an expansion or not is like liking arguing that water isn't wet.

Simply put, we don't have enough information to judge the size much less the quality level of the new content pack.

And it isn't the size of the planet but rather the scope and depth of the content that has me asking questions.

How many new Flashpoints will be added?

Will both normal mode and hard mode be available for any new Flashpoints?

Will any existing Flashpoints get a level 55 / hard mode version?

How many new Operations will be added?

How many bosses will be in the new Operations?

What else will be available for end-game when the new content launches?

Will we be asked to 'buy' new level 55 Operations and Flashpoints later in addition to buying this pack?

Will talent trees and abilities get an update or are they just going to add some new ones to the existing ones?

Will crew skills get an update or are they just going to add some new schematics to the existing ones?

Will any new WZs be added?

What if any significant changes will be made to the current base game when the new content launches?

Will any new companions be added?

Will class stories continue or will it be generic story?

I guess I'd like to better understand if this will a 2.0 type update that significantly improves the core game while continuing the story and adding new content, or is this just a large sized but minor patch that should realistically be called 1.7.

The quality and the amount of said content is what I believe to be the core issue with this upcoming "expansion".

It's been "price tag" or "free". The most fervent bashers appear to think only a free "expansion" is worth it. That's why they argue endlessly over "content update" and "expansion".

I don't care about what you want to call it, all that I care is that Makeb was paid for by our subscription this past year, it was in the development plan for 2012 and was delayed because of this F2P option that was also paid by our subscription.

Making subscribers pay for it a second time is criminal and I won't take it.

I want Makeb and its story content to be free for subscribers.

If they claim to have added "more stuff than originally planned", which I doubt, then they can make us pay that part.

But Makeb and its storyline, free.

(Also, from all the communications I've read, there was no mention of any warzone, flashpoint or operation with Makeb when James Ohlen spoke about it. So you'd better prepared to be disappointed when Makeb hit the PTS)

I don't care about what you want to call it, all that I care is that Makeb was paid for by our subscription this past year, it was in the development plan for 2012 and was delayed because of this F2P option that was also paid by our subscription.

 

Making subscribers pay for it a second time is criminal and I won't take it.

 

I want Makeb and its story content to be free for subscribers.

 

If they claim to have added "more stuff than originally planned", which I doubt, then they can make us pay that part.

But Makeb and its storyline, free.

 

(Also, from all the communications I've read, there was no mention of any warzone, flashpoint or operation with Makeb when James Ohlen spoke about it. So you'd better prepared to be disappointed when Makeb hit the PTS)

Do you think Blizzard charging subscribers for their add-ons to be "criminal"?

Lotro did a one zone expansion with 5 level increase only and several other 1 zone expansions, swg did 2 one planet expansions, everquest have done several 1 zone expansions, age of conan has done a 1 zone expansion.

one planet in SWG was the size of at least 3 planets in TOR soooo there ya go

Don't tell me you expect to play on the whole planet ? Come on, don't be a fool.

this made me laugh, TORs planets are a joke!! you must stay on path if you go too far off path you DIE!!! o and we aint gunna tell you how far too far is and we wont tell you where safety is either B^P

Well stop imagining things to make a point and actually base your concerns on facts (which you don't have yet).

and neither do the people saying that the planet is huge, that we will get new Races and all the other crap you people keep spouting out. the FACT IS is that a dev came out and said this new planet, extra levels WAS NOT AN EXPANSION and that IT WILL BE FREE. THAT is a FACT

Folks who tend to parse definitions usually have already lost the argument. It would be worth debating if the expansion is worth the price, but arguing whether it is an expansion or not is like liking arguing that water isn't wet.

i agree that arguing weather its an expansion or not is silly, especially when a dev already said it wasn't an expansion and that it was to bee free

Do you think Blizzard charging subscribers for their add-ons to be "criminal"?

Honestly, I doubt it's criminal here in the United States, but other countries have MUCH stricter truth in advertising laws. Though I seriously doubt anything would come of it here and now, if Blizzard had done this exact same thing they likely would have been fined by the RoK... for like the third time.

A lot of other countries take the "video game industry" more seriously than us, when it comes to the US most people only care if toys kill children, don't kill kids, don't see what the problem is.

But this could honestly count as a bait and switch, and Blizzard has been fined and sued (successfully) for less. There probably just aren't enough of the right kind of people playing SWTOR for it to become a big deal.

Then again, this games CM would probably have thrown up so many flags in RoK who knows. IANAL so I'm not sure.

Is the general lack of logic this prominent among people nowadays? Seriously, I can't believe you guys actually believe they will keep level 50 flashpoints and operations when the cap is 55. The failings in logic among human beings surprise me more and more every day.

 

Logic and what Bioware does not really works well together.

 

They mentioned adding new story missions, I don't see why that wouldn't also entail class stories.

 

Bioware allready said there will be no class stories on makeb is part of the reason so many people are pissed.

 

Hi everyone - I asked Jeff Hickman for some clarification for you on whether Makeb will feature an extension of class stories. Here's the info:

 

"The intent for Rise of the Hutt Cartel is to continue your character's story, but envisioned as part of the ongoing struggle of the Empire vs. the Republic. There are lots of great moments for you to enjoy, and it will be shared as two clear storylines. No class specific storylines are included, though I know you guys are going to love what RotHC has to offer."

 

We hope this helps clarify!

As you can see no class stories. Just plain planet story I would love this expansion if it continued class story added new conversations with companions, new companion quests etc. No such luck.

Do you think Blizzard charging subscribers for their add-ons to be "criminal"?

your question doesn't have anything to do with my statement.

There will be no class story content they said it allready. Where does it say anything about new flashpoints and operations? And datacrons? Please give me tools and 30 mins and i can add 100 new datacrons to game lmao.

What..........no class story ? that is crap the Main reason people play this game is for the class story missions

Those people are gonna be rewarded with 5 day early acess.

 

When they release more info and those that didnt pre-order right away will want to... they will have to wait an extra 5 days and will feel dumb for having bitten into the hate train.

5 days early access, Oh wat a big difference to get to play early /sarcasm off

Seriously, I'm not biting EAware's bait, I wont feel dumb for not preordering regardless if the expansion is good or complete crap or mediocre. Its just the fanboism disease you have and seeing constant hate on the game. I don't hate the game, just giving them criticism to make the game better. I'm not a debbie downer or a optimist, the games falls is overwhelming whats good in the game.

I will feel dumb however, if I buy(preorder) the expansion mindlessly without thinking things through like the rest of you.

Those people are gonna be rewarded with 5 day early acess.

 

When they release more info and those that didnt pre-order right away will want to... they will have to wait an extra 5 days and will feel dumb for having bitten into the hate train.

This has got to be one of the weakest pro-Makeb argument I have read.

How many of you have been with this game since Beta? I have followed all information since beta and they did mention an item of interest about expansions that EAware expressed but wasn't sure if they would do it. They said a year ago that they may make expansions a payable experience. If you look at past games an expansion for WoW in particular was like 30-40$ for a short amount of levels and limited content.

SWTOR has story and for a planet the size of say Alderaan with a new story ARC and new Adv. Class upgrades to even a new operation plus more than likely new Flashpoint 10$ isn't bad nor is 20$. The ones complaining are probably the same ones complaining about $15 a month for a subscription. So sit back and cry, but I will keep playing and not complain about petty things like $10 for an expansion. If you don't like the game then quit, and go back to your other $15 a month game of WoW and let us play a game we like.

How many of you have been with this game since Beta? I have followed all information since beta and they did mention an item of interest about expansions that EAware expressed but wasn't sure if they would do it. They said a year ago that they may make expansions a payable experience. If you look at past games an expansion for WoW in particular was like 30-40$ for a short amount of levels and limited content.

 

SWTOR has story and for a planet the size of say Alderaan with a new story ARC and new Adv. Class upgrades to even a new operation plus more than likely new Flashpoint 10$ isn't bad nor is 20$. The ones complaining are probably the same ones complaining about $15 a month for a subscription. So sit back and cry, but I will keep playing and not complain about petty things like $10 for an expansion. If you don't like the game then quit, and go back to your other $15 a month game of WoW and let us play a game we like.

This. Even after all the videos that were done showing different stages of the development process and such, with everything from artists to composers to voice actors, some people just refuse to appreciate the amount of time and effort that goes into "just one planet".

I'm not a big fan of extra fees or anything and it would be great if they rewarded subscribers for Christmas/the 1-year anniversary with Makeb rather than asking people to pay more, but as far as whether it's enough, absolutely a whole new planet is great, especially for those of us who outside of the holidays haven't had the kind of time for playing that's required to see everything for the class stories. On top of starting an alt to get a piece of the new HK companion, that's plenty.

I am fine with paying 10 dollars for it if the cash goes to helping build up the game

Well that's exactly the point. Likely Makeb was largely done by a separate team than the one that has been producing the content updates we've been getting, flashpoint, ops etc. I'm sure when they anticipated having millions of subs that they planned to be able to release updates of this size without extra cost.

As we know the sub number didn't live up to expectations. At that point it becomes about making sure there is budget to keep the people who worked on Makeb employed. Quite likely the profits earned for this release will determine the budgets allocated to do more content of that scale. I don't care what anyone claims about this being called a "content update", it's quite clearly larger any any update we've gotten so far.

For games like this, and any game with DLC, the cost of producing the DLC or expansion content has to be budgeted for. It doesn't matter if it's being done at the same time, the budgets are separate and if those people weren't working on that content they wouldn't be working.

So would be people be happy if BW said "you know what, we did call it a content update so it'll be free to everyone!" and then they fire all the staff that worked on it because they can't afford to keep them anymore?

If they released 4 packs the size of Makeb every year at $10 and at the same time gave us the same amount of free content they have in the first year I don't think anyone would be complaining. Hehe, who am I kidding? There's always complaining, but I for one would be thrilled and gladly fork over the extra $10 every 3 months for big story content on top of smaller updates.

Well that's exactly the point. Likely Makeb was largely done by a separate team than the one that has been producing the content updates we've been getting, flashpoint, ops etc. I'm sure when they anticipated having millions of subs that they planned to be able to release updates of this size without extra cost.

 

As we know the sub number didn't live up to expectations. At that point it becomes about making sure there is budget to keep the people who worked on Makeb employed. Quite likely the profits earned for this release will determine the budgets allocated to do more content of that scale. I don't care what anyone claims about this being called a "content update", it's quite clearly larger any any update we've gotten so far.

 

For games like this, and any game with DLC, the cost of producing the DLC or expansion content has to be budgeted for. It doesn't matter if it's being done at the same time, the budgets are separate and if those people weren't working on that content they wouldn't be working.

 

So would be people be happy if BW said "you know what, we did call it a content update so it'll be free to everyone!" and then they fire all the staff that worked on it because they can't afford to keep them anymore?

 

If they released 4 packs the size of Makeb every year at $10 and at the same time gave us the same amount of free content they have in the first year I don't think anyone would be complaining. Hehe, who am I kidding? There's always complaining, but I for one would be thrilled and gladly fork over the extra $10 every 3 months for big story content on top of smaller updates.

I would be more than happy with a 'Major update the size of Makeb' every 3 months and paying for it, however what I will not buy is unclear content that is unknown as to its completeness simply to pad a quarterly set of figures (my opinion).

There is a great deal of hate going on in this topic, and allot of pointless debate on if or if not this is a real expansion. The one thing we have learned raises a red flag for me. This being no class story. I have not heard or seen anything that says something special is coming with this expansion. It looks like its going to be a standard planet like the others.

I am tired of developers/companies destroying good games because a child comes on and complains its too hard. When said child should be focusing on school. Example world of warcraft everything I enjoyed in that game has been removed because it was too difficult. Just like swtor, world of warcraft is now also going the standard direction of just missions, leveling, dungeons, and raids. Yes swtor has its own name for these items. I am extremely tired of companies/devs lying to there customer base to make a buck, by making something look better then it really is. If this next expansion turns out to be a standard planet of swtor caliber then I am done with swtor. It will mean they are only interested in taking as much of peoples money as they can, for as little content as possible.

For now they will receive no money from me for a pre order, unless they show me something special, and out of the ordinary for this expansion.