Cryo Grenade got nerfed to 10m so there is an argument for either side.

Last time I checked, cryo nade was a stun and not a snare.

Here's a cookie for your effort though.

Cool story bro.

It sure beats yours...bra.

When Aoe dmg is overrated why are people playing Smash?

 

1 Pt isnt going to kill a Healer aswell. But a commando that drops Plasma Grenade, Sticky, Mortar Volley into a group will give the 2 healers cracy amount of Health to heal back up.

I've yet to see a large group stand around in a Mortar Volley. They spread like rats when they see that mid aiming icon on the ground.

You can knock em away after they charged!!! Knock em away to prevent that super smash on your stunned healer. And powertechs dont charge btw!!! Knock em away so you can finish a cap on novare etc.

You don't play a commando, do you? The KB from Concussive Charge is, by no means, enough to create the distance required to cap anything. Cryo Grenade, is better used to save your healer than the KB since every class has a way to still do some sort of damage, saber throw, HiB, etc. from the KB range.

You can cast Advanced Medical Probe Instant in gunnery with 5 stacks. You can use Tech Override for another instant Medical Probe.

If you're playing someone that is bad enough to let you get 5 stacks of Charged Barrel, then you won't need the instant AMP. If you're playing someone where the AMP could be useful, you won't have the 5 stacks to make it instant and its better to just use what you got to shoot them in the face with an HiB.

It sure beats yours...bra.

Cool story bro.

Cool story bro.

It sure beats yours...bra

Last time I checked, cryo nade was a stun and not a snare.

 

Here's a cookie for your effort though.

Principle remains the same. Cryo Grenade for commandos got nerfed because of VGs. "IF", and that's a big if, Electro Net is for both Trooper ACs, then it would be highly unlikely that it would have a 30m range.

As someone who used to play ranked games with 2 Gunnery commandos I can confirm that it's much easier if you replace them with a second Vanguard, a Smash Guardian or a Slinger. While Commandos do have a higher range on casts than vanguards, they lack the means to escape a pack of melees and get interrupted 24/7. Just compare sniper defensive cooldowns to the ones of commandos (Snipers can't even be interrupted in cover(!)). There is currently no place for a commando in a ranked team if you plan to win against equally skilled teams.

I hope the planned buffs will make them once again a viable choice.

does saber reflect work on DoTs? i would think not, but i am not familiar with jedi classes.

 

and lets be honest, how many healers actually are actively cleansing their teammates? even in RWZs i have hardly ever seen it. ive even gotten to the point where i stop asking for mezzes to be cleansed, since its like talking to a wall.

 

i definitely agree that we are getting the short end of the stick here. Merc is already several levels below its competition for the DPS role. yes, these changes will give a nice buff to *almost* all the aspects of playing a merc. but at the same time every other class is getting an equal amount of buffs/new skills. which does nothing but preserve the status quo.

 

but i will stick to my guns on not passing judgement on these changes. we dont even know if they are in their finished state, or how many of them will make it into an actual patch, or when we will see them at all. so i am reserving passing actual judgement until i see it posted in yellow text

I probably cleanse more then most on my pyro merc

I probably cleanse more then most on my pyro merc

i used cleanse on my self often as well. but i would also use it to remove Mez effects from my teammates when i could.

i rarely see healers do that, even the healers that i consider to be good

I hope the planned buffs will make them once again a viable choice.

As it looks like we're not getting any DPS improvements (and at least one nerf to damage), we won't be able to compete with the PTs/Maras for dps spots, which leaves us with the utility role.

So the big question will be - IF Smashbrother is correct and electro net is merc/mando only, is it enough to warrant swapping out a tankassin with pulls (and now phase walk) or an engi sniper with probe (and now with massive stealth detection and added mobility)?

This is the problem. Our competition for the spots just got buffed up the wazoo. The best I am seeing right now (albeit with incomplete information) is that the status quo has not changed. Worst case, we've fallen even further behind.

As it looks like we're not getting any DPS improvements (and at least one nerf to damage), we won't be able to compete with the PTs/Maras for dps spots, which leaves us with the utility role.

 

So the big question will be - IF Smashbrother is correct and electro net is merc/mando only, is it enough to warrant swapping out a tankassin with pulls (and now phase walk) or an engi sniper with probe (and now with massive stealth detection and added mobility)?

 

Probably not. The net would have to be severely OP to make up for the weakness of the commando in a ranked matched. Other than Electro Net, we did not receive anything to keep melee at range so we will still be highly susceptible to interrupts, which the other classes you mentioned, aren't.

Principle remains the same. Cryo Grenade for commandos got nerfed because of VGs. "IF", and that's a big if, Electro Net is for both Trooper ACs, then it would be highly unlikely that it would have a 30m range.

Fail.

Cryo grenade and ALL OTHER STUNS got nerfed because of a retarded sweeping change BW made regarding stuns. It has NOTHING to do with vanguards or snares.

Shadow force slow is 10m. Sage force slow is 30m. So if both ACs do get the net, VG one would be 10m, and commando one would be 30m.

i used cleanse on my self often as well. but i would also use it to remove Mez effects from my teammates when i could.

 

i rarely see healers do that, even the healers that i consider to be good

It's not a matter of them not wanting to cleanse CCs, it's a matter of the damn cleanse having a cd and they can't spam cleanse everyone on the team. When a group gets flash banged, your healer can't cleanse you all. Only one. Also, i prioritize cleansing **** off me before my teammates because I'm precious. I really wish BW would remove the damn cd on it. Or make it aoe. Either one please.

As it looks like we're not getting any DPS improvements (and at least one nerf to damage), we won't be able to compete with the PTs/Maras for dps spots, which leaves us with the utility role.

 

So the big question will be - IF Smashbrother is correct and electro net is merc/mando only, is it enough to warrant swapping out a tankassin with pulls (and now phase walk) or an engi sniper with probe (and now with massive stealth detection and added mobility)?

 

This is the problem. Our competition for the spots just got buffed up the wazoo. The best I am seeing right now (albeit with incomplete information) is that the status quo has not changed. Worst case, we've fallen even further behind.

The sniper's stealth detection is pretty damn worthless. It only increases your stealth detection level, not how far you can detect stealth. So it will be useful if you're solo guarding or something, but even then I'm pretty sure you can't see stealth behind your char. It's not going to be of any use when you're pewpewpewing from the back. It's not like your gonna see a stealthed sin from 30m away and can shoot him to bring him out of stealth.

Phase walk is even more reason to bring a commando that has a net. If you don't want the shadow to teleport with the ball (I'm not 100% if this will be possible or not, but let's say it is), then the only way to stop him is to net him.

I'm not saying the new changes are somehow going to make commandos top dog in pvp, but I do think the net is utility enough to bring a commando into RWZs. Think about it, how many times has you're team tried to kill a mara, ops, sorc, jugg, sin, only to have them vanish/leap/run away giving them time to get healed?

And btw, the net is a commando thing so healer commandos get it too. This combined with the nice medic changes will probably warrant a commando healer at the least, if a dps one is still trash for rwzs.

not every game is huttball. and we dont get to pick what warzone we want, which means you cannot tailor your RWZ composition based on certain strats for certain WZs.

electro net sounds like it would have quite a lot of application in Huttball. but in other warzones? not really.

when i first heard the skill name i thought it would be some kind of AOE CC. like a root or a slow. which would actually have real application in other warzones (slowing team movement between objective points)

lets look at the characteristics of Sorc and Sniper, the other Ranged DPS. Sniper has cover, which makes them a very good hard counter to a lot of melee. Sorc has an abundance of CC and the ability to get out of dodge quickly. what does Merc have? Casted abilities with no interrupt resistance, no CC resistance, and no mobility.

bioware really needs to decide on what kind of playstyle Merc is going to be. Sniper is a turret, Sorc is about control. Merc could become another turret class, or a run-and-gun class. it would require some major revamping tho. like the ability to cast on the move, a way to build up interrupt resistance, etc. i would prefer the changes i had suggested in my Merc Manifesto, since that would actually make us competitive

not every game is huttball. and we dont get to pick what warzone we want, which means you cannot tailor your RWZ composition based on certain strats for certain WZs.

 

electro net sounds like it would have quite a lot of application in Huttball. but in other warzones? not really.

 

when i first heard the skill name i thought it would be some kind of AOE CC. like a root or a slow. which would actually have real application in other warzones (slowing team movement between objective points)

 

lets look at the characteristics of Sorc and Sniper, the other Ranged DPS. Sniper has cover, which makes them a very good hard counter to a lot of melee. Sorc has an abundance of CC and the ability to get out of dodge quickly. what does Merc have? Casted abilities with no interrupt resistance, no CC resistance, and no mobility.

 

bioware really needs to decide on what kind of playstyle Merc is going to be. Sniper is a turret, Sorc is about control. Merc could become another turret class, or a run-and-gun class. it would require some major revamping tho. like the ability to cast on the move, a way to build up interrupt resistance, etc. i would prefer the changes i had suggested in my Merc Manifesto, since that would actually make us competitive

Um did you not read what net does? It's a dot with a 50% snare that prevents the target from using vanish, leaps, and speed boosts. Do you not realize how extremely useful this is in EVERY wz? Oh look that healer ops is about to die. Net him and he can't vanish. Oh look sent is going to die, net him so he can't camo. Oh look sage healer is going to die, net him so he can't break roots and run away. Oh look guardian is about to die. Net him so he can't friendly leap away. And those are just the offensive ways you could use net. It's obvious you can use the net to stop melee from leaping you and destroying your face.

Taking away other classes' escape abilities = they die. Think of it this way. Using the net on someone makes them just like a commando because they can't escape! And you know how easy we are to kill.

Shadow force slow is 10m. Sage force slow is 30m. So if both ACs do get the net, VG one would be 10m, and commando one would be 30m.

One would think that, but BW has demonstrated, numerous time, that when it comes to the Commando/Mercenary ACs that rational thought does not always apply.

Cryo Grenade was just an example of this, another is the SS root.

I agree that Electro Net is probably a commando/merc only ability because who, in their right mind, would give VGs another snare?

The sniper's stealth detection is pretty damn worthless. It only increases your stealth detection level, not how far you can detect stealth. So it will be useful if you're solo guarding or something, but even then I'm pretty sure you can't see stealth behind your char. It's not going to be of any use when you're pewpewpewing from the back. It's not like your gonna see a stealthed sin from 30m away and can shoot him to bring him out of stealth.

 

Phase walk is even more reason to bring a commando that has a net. If you don't want the shadow to teleport with the ball (I'm not 100% if this will be possible or not, but let's say it is), then the only way to stop him is to net him.

 

I'm not saying the new changes are somehow going to make commandos top dog in pvp, but I do think the net is utility enough to bring a commando into RWZs. Think about it, how many times has you're team tried to kill a mara, ops, sorc, jugg, sin, only to have them vanish/leap/run away giving them time to get healed?

 

And btw, the net is a commando thing so healer commandos get it too. This combined with the nice medic changes will probably warrant a commando healer at the least, if a dps one is still trash for rwzs.

I'm not sure if any of us know what the effect of 30 levels of stealth detection will be given there is absolutely nothing that comes close to that right now. I highly suspect it will affect range given the huge number (why 30? if all it needs to do is overcome whatever stealth the opponent has, far less would do).

As for shadows, if they see a commando they'll do exactly what they do in warzones now before they want to move. Pop their tech shield, which will almost certainly block electro net.

Besides, the question is not 'would you like someone with electro net on your team?' - it is 'who would you drop for it?'. I really doubt anyone is going to give up their shadow or cap denial. So yeah, *maybe* combat medics get a look-in now (especially as bubblestuns have fallen out of grace). Great. I didn't roll a healer. See the title of this thread.

Um did you not read what net does? It's a dot with a 50% snare that prevents the target from using vanish, leaps, and speed boosts. Do you not realize how extremely useful this is in EVERY wz? Oh look that healer ops is about to die. Net him and he can't vanish. Oh look sent is going to die, net him so he can't camo. Oh look sage healer is going to die, net him so he can't break roots and run away. Oh look guardian is about to die. Net him so he can't friendly leap away. And those are just the offensive ways you could use net. It's obvious you can use the net to stop melee from leaping you and destroying your face.

 

Taking away other classes' escape abilities = they die. Think of it this way. Using the net on someone makes them just like a commando because they can't escape! And you know how easy we are to kill.

im not going to argue with you since you seem to just fight with everyone on every issue for no reason.

but i do not think that electro net, as it is currently being interpreted, is going to make Merc/Mando worth taking into RWZ.

and Electro-Net was listed in the general Trooper section of the data-mine wasnt it? that would suggest that it is for both PT/VG and Merc/Mando. yeah, Merc/Mando is definitely going to have a unique and worthwhile role to fulfill in competitive PvP

One would think that, but BW has demonstrated, numerous time, that when it comes to the Commando/Mercenary ACs that rational thought does not always apply.

 

Cryo Grenade was just an example of this, another is the SS root.

 

I agree that Electro Net is probably a commando/merc only ability because who, in their right mind, would give VGs another snare?

You realize shadows and sages got their stun nerfed to 10m too? It's not a matter of "BW hates commandos so they nerfed cryo grenade to 10m" ******** that you keep spewing. It has to do with nerfing all long range stuns.

Net is going to be 30m. Whether VGs get it too or not, I don't know.

I'm not sure if any of us know what the effect of 30 levels of stealth detection will be given there is absolutely nothing that comes close to that right now. I highly suspect it will affect range given the huge number (why 30? if all it needs to do is overcome whatever stealth the opponent has, far less would do).

It's 30 because sins have a skill that increase their stealth level by like 15. So you'd basically have to be in cover for 15s to even counteract a sin's stealth so you can see him while he's stealthed. That's gonna happen really when your node guarding.

As for shadows, if they see a commando they'll do exactly what they do in warzones now before they want to move. Pop their tech shield, which will almost certainly block electro net.

If it forces them to use shroud to remove net, that's fine too. It means they're not using it to avoid something else that's big. Plus, net's CD will be much shorter than shrouds.

Besides, the question is not 'would you like someone with electro net on your team?' - it is 'who would you drop for it?'. I really doubt anyone is going to give up their shadow or cap denial. So yeah, *maybe* combat medics get a look-in now (especially as bubblestuns have fallen out of grace). Great. I didn't roll a healer. See the title of this thread.

Honestly, I feel like net is good enough to warrant a commando on your team. The escape denial mechanic is unique and extremely useful. Focus got nerfed, so commando could replace a focus guardian or something. Snipers weren't really buffed that much, so that's another option.

im not going to argue with you since you seem to just fight with everyone on every issue for no reason.

No I just enjoy fighting stupidity like when you suggested grav round should be instant cast all the time. Thankfully, you realized how *********** stupidly OP that was and suggested more balanced ideas later on.

but i do not think that electro net, as it is currently being interpreted, is going to make Merc/Mando worth taking into RWZ.

I do. Especially since medic commandos get it too, and focus got nerfed. But we obviously won't know until we get to play it. Snipers didn't really get anything substantial so dps commando with net may replace them.

and Electro-Net was listed in the general Trooper section of the data-mine wasnt it? that would suggest that it is for both PT/VG and Merc/Mando. yeah, Merc/Mando is definitely going to have a unique and worthwhile role to fulfill in competitive PvP

Jesus *********** christ. How many times do I have to say this? Just because it's listed under the trooper section on darth hater doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be for both ACs.

Once *********** again, dual saber throw is listed under JK, but the description says it requires two sabers, so it's *********** obviously sentinel only unless you think BW is giving guardians two sabers too?

The two biggest issues plaguing dps commandos in RWZ is they bring 0 utility and can't kite melee well enough to dps. Net fixes both problems.

Probably not. The net would have to be severely OP to make up for the weakness of the commando in a ranked matched. Other than Electro Net, we did not receive anything to keep melee at range so we will still be highly susceptible to interrupts, which the other classes you mentioned, aren't.

lets continue these hypothetical arguments based on class changes that may or may not be accurate and may or may not be even added to the game.

im tired of discussing this crap. the devs dont care, and they certainly wont engage in discussion with us so something constructive could at least come of any of this.

pointless bickering is pointless