Well done Bioware,

 

you want people to subscribe to an MMO and yet you refuse to release any new MMO Content. the Subscrier Population is already at it's lowest since launch in 2011 and you do not want to release anything new that will keep veterens playing and Subscribing.

Well done Bioware,

 

you want people to subscribe to an MMO and yet you refuse to release any new MMO Content. the Subscrier Population is already at it's lowest since launch in 2011 and you do not want to release anything new that will keep veterens playing and Subscribing.

 

This man speaks the truth

No new operations for launch of 5.0. Let's not get hasty and say that 5.0 will be another dry season. Right EAware? Right? RIGHT?

Most players want a new really MMO content. PVP war zone, flashpoint and, then last but not least, they want NEW OPERATIONS !!

They don't want a so easy game during leveling, with companions doing all the job !

I'm a french player, 2 servers are dead. All the people have migrated to mantle of the force (like me) at 4.0, and now this server empties too (80 players max on the fleet at 9PM).

Bioware, be responsive to our needs, Why don't you send an email to your players to know what they want !! It's not complicated !

Eric musco, please explain us what is the policy of bioware about MMO content ? Is the staff working on it ?

The thing that irks me most about the whole ordeal is that the community repeatedly asked all year long for any updates on new ops, and they repeatedly gave incredibly non-committal, but optimistic answers. They waited all the way up until many subscriber accounts were nearing recurring billing before they finally gave us an honest answer.

 

That says to me that EA had them on the leash long enough to squeeze out a few final dimes from what remained of that portion of the loyal consumer base. If my theory is correct, (and it probably is) that is an absolutely trashy way to do business. This publisher should be ashamed of what they have put their longtime, original fanbase through just to tell us "lol nope, screw you buddy".

 

I get that it's EA, and we really should have seen it coming. But watching this company completely squander the Star Wars IP with subpar releases and updates, only tossing just enough money at the devs to milk a few extra bucks, really is tragic. It's hard to watch all this unfold, honestly. This could have been so much better a game had they actually spent our money on thoughtful, legitimate content releases. Shame on you, EA.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Trogusaurus

You have to always consider the numbers when it comes to this. Even yesterday i was watching a few streams of swtor and i was surprised to see 7 streams of NiM operations going on. Yes, they didnt go well, but there were people streaming it, that means there are a few others doing NiMs without streaming, which is great, mainly if you consider this to be way old content.

 

For us it might be hard to believe but a very very small part of the game population actually does ops, or does HM at least, minimum do NiMs. The problem seems to be that the SW brand attracted mainly people interested in dress up, story and RP, this then makes investments into operations pointless. If more raiders wont join the game there will never be ops! But raiders wont join just to do old content, so there will never be ops

You have to always consider the numbers when it comes to this. Even yesterday i was watching a few streams of swtor and i was surprised to see 7 streams of NiM operations going on. Yes, they didnt go well, but there were people streaming it, that means there are a few others doing NiMs without streaming, which is great, mainly if you consider this to be way old content.

 

For us it might be hard to believe but a very very small part of the game population actually does ops, or does HM at least, minimum do NiMs. The problem seems to be that the SW brand attracted mainly people interested in dress up, story and RP, this then makes investments into operations pointless. If more raiders wont join the game there will never be ops! But raiders wont join just to do old content, so there will never be ops

 

Those numbers aren't representative of what numbers were like when Ops were actually released. Keep in mind that there hasn't been an operation released in 22 months, and that all current content was clearable by the vast majority of players in 3.0 due to level advantages. The people still playing are doing so because they enjoy the progression of it. Back during the 2.0 golden era so to speak, even before twitch really blew up, there were dozens of streamers playing through Nim content, as well as ranked PvP and so on, the community was more alive in general.

 

Using current numbers to work out interest is flawed in the same sense that using dvd sales numbers are flawed for assessing a movie's overall success

Those numbers aren't representative

 

But they are, I am talking about the entire game population. Even during the "golden times" yes there were much more raiders and doing NiMs, but still that was around 10% of the game population, dont forget that. I have started to play the game very slowly, was my first MMO and for over a year i didnt know what a flashpoint or operation is!! Imagine how many of such players are in the game still now!

 

Raiders and PVPers are the loudest, that is for sure, we are on forums, reddit, youtube, twitch, everywhere, but we dont represent the entire game population (sadly so), that is the main problem. Even on these forums, i came here, only because im bored at work during the day!! I bet 70% of the games players never go to forums!

 

The problem is that SWTOR never really attracted a LOT of raiders, which i dont understand since the operations and stuff is great and that is what Bioware realized over the years. Thats when they started the Cold War against them with things like Priority ops and NiM not dropping highest game gear. They want to drive them out and just keep the 95% of the people who play RP and dress up, buy CM stuff and are fine with just getting story content for 150,- euro per year.

While I agree wholeheartedly with the general disappointment of no new operations with KOTET launch, I disagree with the assessment of the situation.

 

Much like TEC came in after launch (and was delayed even further), and the new WZ and arena maps, I know I will get ripped for my optimism but we WILL get a new operation in 2017 during the KOTET cycle.

 

And look at what we ARE getting with KOTET:

 

• content difficulty slider
  
• the ability to use multiple companions in group-esque content
  

 

BOTH of these are features that players have been crying for for years and we are finally getting them.

 

My point is that for a long time now there has been a significant lag time between what we the players want and when BW implements them. This goes as far back as original launch:

• ...there were NO operations at launch, it was only months later that we got EV and KP.
  
• also from launch players wanted character housing and off rails space combat. It took two years to implement both in the forms of GSH and GSF.
  
• After Makeb and no class story we wanted more class story, we were given a small bone in SoR
  
• We wanted roleless FPs, we got tacticals
  
• we wanted solo FPs we got them
  
• we wanted options for story completion (think Oricon [ops requirement] vs SoR [solo or operation choice])
  
• we wanted old ops to be relevant, we got it.
  

 

The list goes on. Throughout the five years this game has been around, BW HAS in fact listened to what we want and given it to us. The problem has been and continues to be the timing of fulfillment. The quote in my signature is very apt. "We" want something, BW takes the time to implement it, but by the time they do "we" have moved on to wanting something else. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a company to turn on a dime with every whim of their customers

Huh?

 

EV was in at launch as was the first boss of KP.

 

Makeb was supposed to have class stories but they were cut due to the budget downsizing. That's why all the original companions talk in Makeb.

 

Who's the "we" that wanted old ops to be relevant? Before 4.0 I and a couple of friends had a blast running old ops as 2 or 3 man teams to get decos and mounts. Ran Explosive Conflict a couple of times a week that way before 4.0, now that Explosive Conflict is "relevant" I've done it once, twice maybe?

 

Where are you getting that multiple companions can be used?

 

Also, the difficulty slider may be irrelevant depending on how it changes things. If it makes encounters more interesting, then it's a great feature. If all it does is double or triple the hit point pools of the trash, why would any one use it to drag out the grind longer?

I agree with the above poster, but I'll also add, what I've been hoping for since 4.0 is making the Core Class story missions in chapters 1-3 like they were at launch in difficulty. If I understand the Difficulty slider they are adding from what was posted on Dulfy's site, it sounded like the difficulty slider was only going to be usable for Kotfe, and Kotet. By the time you actually get to those expansions your already Max level, and it's irrelevant. just blast your way through the chapters to get them over with on easy mode.

But they are, I am talking about the entire game population. Even during the "golden times" yes there were much more raiders and doing NiMs, but still that was around 10% of the game population, dont forget that. I have started to play the game very slowly, was my first MMO and for over a year i didnt know what a flashpoint or operation is!! Imagine how many of such players are in the game still now!

 

Raiders and PVPers are the loudest, that is for sure, we are on forums, reddit, youtube, twitch, everywhere, but we dont represent the entire game population (sadly so), that is the main problem. Even on these forums, i came here, only because im bored at work during the day!! I bet 70% of the games players never go to forums!

 

The problem is that SWTOR never really attracted a LOT of raiders, which i dont understand since the operations and stuff is great and that is what Bioware realized over the years. Thats when they started the Cold War against them with things like Priority ops and NiM not dropping highest game gear. They want to drive them out and just keep the 95% of the people who play RP and dress up, buy CM stuff and are fine with just getting story content for 150,- euro per year.

 

Nah more used to take part in ops Biofails number from ancient guild summit

 

38% of level 50 players have played in an operation

 

This is from the dulfy live blog of it http://dulfy.net/2012/03/05/swtor-guild-summitlive-blogging/

 

To me that sounds like a fair number of people used to like ops and its not a number pulled form the air but biofails own number. So I would posit that its their failure to provide decent amounts of content that have caused the drop

Edited October 11, 2016 by WheresMyWhisky

Huh?

 

EV was in at launch as was the first boss of KP.

 

Makeb was supposed to have class stories but they were cut due to the budget downsizing. That's why all the original companions talk in Makeb.

 

Who's the "we" that wanted old ops to be relevant? Before 4.0 I and a couple of friends had a blast running old ops as 2 or 3 man teams to get decos and mounts. Ran Explosive Conflict a couple of times a week that way before 4.0, now that Explosive Conflict is "relevant" I've done it once, twice maybe?

 

Where are you getting that multiple companions can be used?

 

Also, the difficulty slider may be irrelevant depending on how it changes things. If it makes encounters more interesting, then it's a great feature. If all it does is double or triple the hit point pools of the trash, why would any one use it to drag out the grind longer?

 

My point stands that Bioware has been given us what we ask for, but it just takes too long.

 

"Who's the "we" that wanted old ops to be relevant?"

Not going to go digging through thousands of posts but there have been PLENTY of suggestions over the years on how to make old ops relevant.

 

"Where are you getting that multiple companions can be used?"

KOTET "uprisings" can be done with 1-4 players the fewer the players the more companions.

My point stands that Bioware has been given us what we ask for, but it just takes too long.

 

"Who's the "we" that wanted old ops to be relevant?"

Not going to go digging through thousands of posts but there have been PLENTY of suggestions over the years on how to make old ops relevant.

 

"Where are you getting that multiple companions can be used?"

KOTET "uprisings" can be done with 1-4 players the fewer the players the more companions.

 

You may have a point about the other stuff, but you're probably wrong about new operation. It's hard to do one when you fire your whole operation team.

To me that sounds like a fair number of people used to like ops and its not a number pulled form the air but biofails own number. So I would posit that its their failure to provide decent amounts of content that have caused the drop

 

Reality is that the people on these forums trying to push the "no one likes to raid anymore" agenda are trolling.

 

There was a large, healthy raiding community in this game from 1.2 until 3.0. It covered the spectrum, from hardcore (minority), to casual, to uber-casual.

 

The reason it is gone is Bioware. Period. Anything else is salty rationalization.

Edited October 11, 2016 by gabigool

 

"Where are you getting that multiple companions can be used?"

KOTET "uprisings" can be done with 1-4 players the fewer the players the more companions.

 

Again, where are you getting multiple companions? All I see is "Join with up to three allies in erupting action-packed battles and confront the galaxy’s most notorious adversaries rising to challenge your influence in Galactic Command."

 

Since Uprisings are the much hinted at (and only) group content they're offering, I would assume the allies are other players.

You may have a point about the other stuff, but you're probably wrong about new operation. It's hard to do one when you fire your whole operation team.

 

where did you get the information about "fire your whole operation team"?

You may have a point about the other stuff, but you're probably wrong about new operation. It's hard to do one when you fire your whole operation team.

 

Well...

 

I got you covered:

• All 9 Chapters are being released with Eternal Throne's launch.
  
• What we said is that after KOTET's launch, the team is refocusing on group content. Our hope is that as a part of the January Producer Letter or Livestream, we will have more specific updates on what is to come. This includes all types of group content, but was a specific answer to the question of Operations.
  
• We will have a whole bunch of livestreams and blogs between now and launch to go into details on many facets of the expansion.
  
• Dark vs Light is intended to end with KOTET Early Access on November 29th. However, I believe the Dark vs Light part of it to decide which Companion will be awarded, will end a week or so prior to that.
  
• PvP / GSF - Refer to answer above about Operations // stream in January.
  

-eric

Well...

I've re-read the twitter post, and Eric's comment above.

 

I find that I could interpret it different ways:

 

1. In January they will talk about upcoming new operations in development.

or

2. In January they will talk about whether or not they will develop new operations.

 

The Twitter post was vague. Eric's post doesn't help "un-vague" it very much.

I've re-read the twitter post, and Eric's comment above.

 

I find that I could interpret it different ways:

 

1. In January they will talk about upcoming new operations in development.

or

2. In January they will talk about whether or not they will develop new operations.

 

The Twitter post was vague. Eric's post doesn't help "un-vague" it very much.

 

It was the bare minimum to get me to re-sub until Dec. 24. Then I won't re-sub until there is a definitive operation in the pipeline. Their burden is to show me.

While I agree wholeheartedly with the general disappointment of no new operations with KOTET launch, I disagree with the assessment of the situation.

 

Much like TEC came in after launch (and was delayed even further), and the new WZ and arena maps, I know I will get ripped for my optimism but we WILL get a new operation in 2017 during the KOTET cycle.

 

And look at what we ARE getting with KOTET:

 

• content difficulty slider
  
• the ability to use multiple companions in group-esque content
  

 

BOTH of these are features that players have been crying for for years and we are finally getting them.

 

My point is that for a long time now there has been a significant lag time between what we the players want and when BW implements them. This goes as far back as original launch:

• ...there were NO operations at launch, it was only months later that we got EV and KP.
  
• also from launch players wanted character housing and off rails space combat. It took two years to implement both in the forms of GSH and GSF.
  
• After Makeb and no class story we wanted more class story, we were given a small bone in SoR
  
• We wanted roleless FPs, we got tacticals
  
• we wanted solo FPs we got them
  
• we wanted options for story completion (think Oricon [ops requirement] vs SoR [solo or operation choice])
  
• we wanted old ops to be relevant, we got it.
  

 

The list goes on. Throughout the five years this game has been around, BW HAS in fact listened to what we want and given it to us. The problem has been and continues to be the timing of fulfillment. The quote in my signature is very apt. "We" want something, BW takes the time to implement it, but by the time they do "we" have moved on to wanting something else. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a company to turn on a dime with every whim of their customers

 

 

I don't think at this time in the life cycle of mmo's it should be a surprise what people want. Mmo's mean dungeons/fps, raids/operations, pvp, and a leveling system of quests/missions. Now if you want to market yourself as a story driven mmo then you will have to put some efforts into the mission's feeling like they are story driven. If you want to add things like GSF and Strongholds great. But if you start to slack on what is the core of an mmo you will start to fail.

 

The reason this game started to fail way back in 2012 is because they slacked on endgame. And they've been making the same mistake over and over again.

The list goes on. Throughout the five years this game has been around, BW HAS in fact listened to what we want and given it to us. The problem has been and continues to be the timing of fulfillment. The quote in my signature is very apt. "We" want something, BW takes the time to implement it, but by the time they do "we" have moved on to wanting something else. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a company to turn on a dime with every whim of their customers

I wasn't here for most of the game, but based on what I've gleaned about KOTFE and beyond, here is my rough guess as to what happened with content, based on a mixture of impressions and observations:

 

As BW moved into planning for 4.0, they realized that a lot of systems were antiquated and making the game look extremely dated. So along with the normal story pack (in this case, KOTFE 1-9), they went through and made a lot of updates. This left them with few resources to do other things.

 

In the projections and planning for KOTFE, there were concerns about the content gap that players would be facing, given that KOTFE had mainly provided story and system updating. They realized with that content gap, players would burn through KOTFE content and then have nothing to do with themselves, nor would they want to sit around and wait months for an Op release or more story updates. So they devised the chapter a month schedule to fill the content gap and bring KOTFE to a story point where it could have a distinct "ending" (to the KOTFE part of it, anyway).

 

Unfortunately, while this might have been good for revenue, it locked them into something like 7 or 8 months of development, where virtually every non-cartel resource had to be put into the development of monthly chapters. It filled the content gap, but it also left them with their hands tied, unable to attend to other aspects of the game.

 

Finally, at the end of the cycle, having been painfully aware of their situation the entire them, they started work immediately on 9 chapters of KOTET, to continue the cliffhanger ending of KOTFE and possibly bring the entire narrative to a more "closed" point very quickly, along with designing content support systems like uprisings, galactic command, and difficulty settings, to ensure that people will have something to do that feels important once they reach that end of KOTET pinnacle.

 

In this way, the content gap would essentially take care of itself (temporarily), unlike the last time, and they will now have some time to refocus on areas of the game that got neglected, such as PvP or Ops. I would guess that they won't have a huge amount of time to work on these things (they will probably start on the next story expansion within 6 months of KOTET's launch) but they will see what kind of future-proofing they can do, mixed with new content, to make it so that Ops and PvP have less of a need for regular "new content" updates.

 

I think they are fully aware that they're in a situation where they have to balance a bunch of different stuff that is really time-consuming to make and they don't want to neglect a single one, so any way they can come up with that will extend the life of the content without boring people is best case scenario.

 

Which is why I would not bet on something as simple as "a new Op" in early 2017 or "new PvP maps." It might happen, but they also might get creative and try to make something that will be both new and repeatable in a way that appeals to people, but isn't necessarily a traditional "here's another one to do until you get bored of it."

 

What they say in January will really be the clincher, in terms of what direction they're planning.

What they say in January will really be the clincher, in terms of what direction they're planning.

 

 

Im not willing to wait til January to find out whether or not they might be adding a new operation. The fact that they will not definitively say if there is going to be a new operation anytime soon does not give me confidence that it will happen at all. They wont even specifically address Operations, always referring to "end game" or "group" content, thrown in with pvp, flashpoints and the like. Its been almost 2 years since they added a new operation, and Im getting tired of spending money to run TFB, DP, DF, EV, KP, EC, ToS, Rav, and SnV all the damn time.

 

The content they have released gave us about an hour of new game play per month, then back to the old **** until the new release. Now Im supposed to pay for essentailly the same crap for a few months just to find out that they may announce a new op, or they may announce no op, but most likely they will beat around the bush and keep us hangin on in hopes we are stupid enough to keep paying them as long as they can keep us. GOD I MISS SWG.

While I agree wholeheartedly with the general disappointment of no new operations with KOTET launch, I disagree with the assessment of the situation.

 

Much like TEC came in after launch (and was delayed even further), and the new WZ and arena maps, I know I will get ripped for my optimism but we WILL get a new operation in 2017 during the KOTET cycle.

 

And look at what we ARE getting with KOTET:

 

• content difficulty slider
  
• the ability to use multiple companions in group-esque content
  

 

 

 

 

BOTH of these are features that players have been crying for for years and we are finally getting them.

 

My point is that for a long time now there has been a significant lag time between what we the players want and when BW implements them. This goes as far back as original launch:

• ...there were NO operations at launch, it was only months later that we got EV and KP.
  
• also from launch players wanted character housing and off rails space combat. It took two years to implement both in the forms of GSH and GSF.
  
• After Makeb and no class story we wanted more class story, we were given a small bone in SoR
  
• We wanted roleless FPs, we got tacticals
  
• we wanted solo FPs we got them
  
• we wanted options for story completion (think Oricon [ops requirement] vs SoR [solo or operation choice])
  
• we wanted old ops to be relevant, we got it.
  

 

The list goes on. Throughout the five years this game has been around, BW HAS in fact listened to what we want and given it to us. The problem has been and continues to be the timing of fulfillment. The quote in my signature is very apt. "We" want something, BW takes the time to implement it, but by the time they do "we" have moved on to wanting something else. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a company to turn on a dime with every whim of their customers

 

What?

 

EV was at launch, same with "some" KP.

 

 

[*]also from launch players wanted character housing and off rails space combat. It took two years to implement both in the forms of GSH and GSF.

Both without any updates for years

 

[*]After Makeb and no class story we wanted more class story, we were given a small bone in SoR

that was really nice, agreed, still nothing in the latest xpac and this one

 

[*]We wanted roleless FPs, we got tacticals

tacticals ruined lowbie fps imo

 

[*]we wanted solo FPs we got them

i didn't

 

[*]we wanted options for story completion (think Oricon [ops requirement] vs SoR [solo or operation choice])

sure

 

[*]we wanted old ops to be relevant, we got it.

yeah, let's do the same old content over and over and over and over! This is the biggest problem, they think that just by level buffing ops it'll count as new content which is asinine.

 

 

 

No new ops for years is a disgrace. RNG crates are a disgrace too. *** are you doing BW?

Edited October 21, 2016 by valeita

Who wants new content anyway?

 

As long as we can grind our hearts out... lol