I like the idea of SGRAs. I think they would be good to have in game.

 

How about we talk about that before we self-destruct?

Good point.

I like the idea of SGRAs. I think they would be good to have in game.

How about we talk about that before we self-destruct?

I like the idea of SGRAs. I think they would be good to have in game.

 

How about we talk about that before we self-destruct?

I agree.

While it is very disappointing that they have yet to be introduced although they were allegedly intended before release, and there is still no further information on if/when something like this might be implemented. I think the best thing anyone can do is simply show how much overwhelming support there is same-gender romance options in SWTOR.

Not to mention how much publicity an inclusion like this would generate for the game.

Good point.

Thanks.

Personally I'm looking forward to a broad range of character types. I know people seem worried they'll overdo stereotypes or misrepresent (intentionally or no), but I don't think that's a concern.

Honestly, look at the broad range of character types already in the game. Heck, even the quest NPCs all seem to have their own personality. That guy on Coruscant who wants you to fetch computer chips on behalf of his senator boss? Man, I really don't like him. Oilier than a Hutt. That's a sign of good writing (if, that is, the character is meant to be disliked). The writers on the team are good. And considering the vehement backlash over DA2's Serendipity (which, to me, wasn't overly warranted) I think they'll be awfully cautious.

I think the writing team is probably (or already has) discussed at great length how much of a 'big deal' same sex relationships should be to the characters in the game. I mean there's always the 'But I've never felt this way about a man/woman/human/cyborg/droid/Jawa before!' route but that's the product, to me, of a culture that actively discourages thoughts about same sex relationships and only addresses them (positively or negatively) when the base assumption of heterosexuality is proven wrong.

In the Star Wars universe I can see three primary cultural types (in terms of SGRs) - the ones that discourage it, the ones that consider it to be entirely commonplace, and the ones that really don't care one way or the other. And who's to say which should be which? The Empire is speciesist, yes. But do they particularly care about same sex relationships? Considering their eugenics mindset is based around the avoidance of watering down the bloodlines - which same sex relationships can't do - I don't really know that they'd care.

"You're dating a Zabrak??"

"It's cool, we're both boys."

"Oh, well. At least you can't have babies."

Medical advances or no, I can see the Empire refusing to assist people of different species to have young (whether they're same-sex or opposite-sex) and definitely I think they'd look down on ANY inter-species romantic relationship, but I think the focus would be on the bloodlines and speciesist aspects, not 'omg teh gai'.

Someone mentioned the possibility that there might be romances as unlockable content. While I don't think anyone would seriously consider to introduce same gender romances in general that way, I must say I am not completely averse to the idea as is.

Some characters, which are very special and because of their nature wouldn't usually consider a romance with a mere mortal might be only accessible to characters of the third generation of level 50s; otherwise they are helpful, friendly and distant. Of course we do get into an area where it shifts from Star Wars to high medievil fantasy. Angels, fairy queens, creatures of the Force, things like that, not sure whether that would really fit and if so whether there were a lot people who would actually like it enough that they may consider it a motivation to work for. The kind of things you come across in Mask of the Betrayer.

Anyway for such a creature wouldn't necessarily prefer either gender, because it's so far out of any natural sexuality and society, that there is no reason to assume that it might dislike the idea of mating with a mortal of one gender more than that of another.

As has been noted before, Imperial side does have the only real option to, in-story, make your character out to be homosexual in the Sith Warrior's sidequest with Vette - "We're all open-minded here." after all.

Maybe that's just a Sith thing though. They aren't exactly ones to conform to societal norms.

I maintain that Bioware are making this more of an issue than it should be, but that's neither here nor there. I find it very easy to become quickly scathing, so that coupled with my tendency to spend far too much time thinking on things and you end up with my previous nonsense (expectations lain on EA/Bioware for their previous works; reminding people who want to be relaxing that discrimination is alive and well; stating that if they'd left non-white skin tones out of the game at launch it would have been fixed within weeks, without people complaining about a "black agenda" etc.)

I've heard that the Vector romance is really boring (a rock covered in ants, apparently), but if they're writing a new one for same-sex romances (if Vector's a romance, he should be) I wonder what the differences would be.

What I could see as an issue for the writers trying to include this post-launch is writing in new non-hetero companions for the characters, and the resources that would be required to implement them all.

So I very much doubt we will be seeing any LGBT companions until at least the next expansion.

(Failing this they could just cheat and introduce a character who's gender matches that of the player character and make them avaiable to all players like HK-51... But that would be less than Ideal).

What I could see as an issue for the writers trying to include this post-launch is writing in new non-hetero companions for the characters, and the resources that would be required to implement them all.

 

So I very much doubt we will be seeing any LGBT companions until at least the next expansion.

See, I don't know that I agree with that. I can see your reasoning but the way it was presented at the Guild Summit in March makes me feel that there's a very good chance that they've already tagged several existing characters for SGRAs. They already know who's going to be made SGRA-capable and they're not saying whom but unless their 'this year' comment was an outright falsehood (and I've no reason to feel it was) I'd say it'll include some existing characters.

I think it's more of a concern to me that they might not introduce access to those stories until level 50 or post-50.

(Failing this they could just cheat and introduce a character who's gender matches that of the player character and make them avaiable to all players like HK-51... But that would be less than Ideal).

That would be very unsatisfactory. And also they've already made it rather clear that there'll be plural characters that get SGRA'd.

I've heard that the Vector romance is really boring (a rock covered in ants, apparently), but if they're writing a new one for same-sex romances (if Vector's a romance, he should be) I wonder what the differences would be.

Vector's one of the IA companions, right? My Chiss IA isn't high enough to have found him.

Vector's one of the IA companions, right? My Chiss IA isn't high enough to have found him.

Yeah, he's the second companion but you don't get him for a long while. He's a nice mesh of Imperial duty and the wider galaxy, but I'll try not to spoil anything further.

See, I don't know that I agree with that. I can see your reasoning but the way it was presented at the Guild Summit in March makes me feel that there's a very good chance that they've already tagged several existing characters for SGRAs. They already know who's going to be made SGRA-capable and they're not saying whom but unless their 'this year' comment was an outright falsehood (and I've no reason to feel it was) I'd say it'll include some existing characters.

 

I think it's more of a concern to me that they might not introduce access to those stories until level 50 or post-50.

I hope you are correct.

I can certainly think of some characters that would make obvious choices.

As has been noted before, Imperial side does have the only real option to, in-story, make your character out to be homosexual in the Sith Warrior's sidequest with Vette - "We're all open-minded here." after all.

 

Maybe that's just a Sith thing though. They aren't exactly ones to conform to societal norms.

Yeah, the Sith are very much preachers of the "the individual is more important than the whole" gospel. So if an individual Sith wants to forgo marriage/children and instead have a harem full of peeps that are of the same gender as they are, then it's all good.

...and lust is lust, passion is passion.

I like the idea of SGRAs. I think they would be good to have in game.

 

How about we talk about that before we self-destruct?

I'd have prefered a reply to my post, personally. But you all have fun in happy-land.

I'd have prefered a reply to my post, personally. But you all have fun in happy-land.

...Right.

I'd have prefered a reply to my post, personally. But you all have fun in happy-land.

There's not much I can say to yours as I agree with it. Bioware and EA have set a standard themselves for themselves by which their future games will be judged by - this is that their games are inclusive and have LGB persons, non-white persons, female persons (and I should hope in the future, trans* persons). This game is homophobic is as much as it does not even acknowledge that there may be sexualities other than heterosexual - this is demonstrated by the fact that every heterosexual flirt is met with like interest, there is no "sorry, you're not my type" (except for the rare occasion when you're non-human in the Empire).

This issue is being blown out of proportion by the fact that Bioware is incapable of addressing this topic (whether through meddling middle management or a flat out refusal). The very fact that the game is so heterocentric is a political point - it's a reminder to LGB persons and allies that discrimination is alive and well in the real world: you're trying to relax and enjoy yourself but at every turn you're being reminded that people hate you, that people think your lifestyle should be banned and that those people have power. I still maintain that if Bioware had only had white tones at release the issue would have been addressed within weeks and there would not be anywhere near the amount of vitriol or general ignorance poured on people who wanted that content. There would not be anyone wandering into the "Black Skin Tones, Please?" threads saying that it wasn't important, that Bioware shouldn't be wasting their time on it, that it was just a political ruse to make children think being black was "normal".

Everyone's right in saying that this is a game and that politics* shouldn't come into it - but by excluding LGB persons from the game (I will say that they are excluded, they aren't represented in game at all), Bioware is making a political point, whether they want to or not.

*I don't mean politics as in good ol' Eton boys and get elected. I mean social issues and public opinion.

As has been noted before, Imperial side does have the only real option to, in-story, make your character out to be homosexual in the Sith Warrior's sidequest with Vette - "We're all open-minded here." after all.

 

Maybe that's just a Sith thing though. They aren't exactly ones to conform to societal norms.

where does this come from? No quest name, just the planet.

where does this come from? No quest name, just the planet.

Nar Shadda.

Was Uluain's thread in General taken down? If so, it's back. If not, uhhh whoops, my mistake for saying it was.

EDIT: I mean this one: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=536092.

Yes, it had been closed for clean-up and is now restored.

Also one apparently can't discuss polygamy and multiple person relationships, that's news to me o.O I can guess why, though. (You can probably guess I'm not used to such blanket censorship.)

Also one apparently can't discuss polygamy and multiple person relationships, that's news to me o.O I can guess why, though. (You can probably guess I'm not used to such blanket censorship.)

With the amount of deleting going on over there I can't keep up, every time I refresh the page new posts are up, then I refresh it again and their gone.

With the amount of deleting going on over there I can't keep up, every time I refresh the page new posts are up, then I refresh it again and their gone.

Yeah, they're pretty happy to delete posts but not actually answer the question. They're separate teams, yes, but it's obvious that Bioware know about the thread and its purpose.

Edit: Just sent another PM to Ms. Berryman about Mr. Hood and Mr. Amatangelo's comments about SGRA's being with Makeb. I don't except a response, I think she deletes my messages outright now.

"Some high-ranking suit has the forum moderator's hands tied, so they can't respond. They're just not allowed to say anything to those discontent by it, and spout what they're told to spout."

This is from battle.net regarding Panda Land and CRZ(if you want to know what that is, look it up.) I just quoted it because it applies here.

I'm frustrated by this lack of communitcation from BW as well. For now, my solution is to just enjoy the game as much as I can atm.

I've got my Chiss lady sniper to lvl 31 and I'm really enjoying the story. I'm in Alderaan and just met Vector. He's...odd, but seems like someone I could be LS with. I didn't mean to go LS with this toon(I'm almost LS 1 now lol,) but it turned out that way via roleplaying. As much as I like Kailyo, she wouldn't be someone I would consider for SGRs for myself. At least not on a LS character. Kailyo is fun, but let's just say that some of her personality reminds me of some of the ladies I knew in the past.

Oh, I was thinking about the whole, "characters that make sense" phrase. I believe I was over thinking it.

These are the characters that would make zero sense imho. It has nothing really to do with personality for the most part:

• Skadge(okay, his personality is awful)
  
• Blizz
  
• T-7
  
• Yuun
  
• M1-4X
  
• Bowdaar
  
• Gus Tuno
  
• Qyzen
  
• Broonmark
  
• Khem Val
  

I didn't put Scorpio on the list since she seems quite humanoid. From what I have seen(haven't met her yet on my IA,) her bloodlust is on par with DS Jaesa's.

However, Scorpio seems like she could be a sexual being. I'm not saying it would happen, but if we are playing in a world where someone can love a hologram, why not a droid? Especially a more humanoid one.

Edit: Post too long, will continue in the 2nd post.