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Mara PVP fix ( Devs read)


chillshock's Avatar


chillshock
07.30.2014 , 08:03 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Cjirucha View Post
Lowering the cooldown of force camo will help me get out of sticky situations more often but it won't help me pull through a hard stun which is the main problem right now. I honestly think I'm able to use force camo enough as it is.

What about adding something relatively low in one of the skill trees like increased damage reduction while stunned? I think powertechs (maybe?) have something like that. I also fully support the revert of undying rage to take the health cost at the beginning of the ability.
I didn't plan that part ot be a free card out of every hard stun. Just make it more likely to have the camo ready IF you survive.
And I most certainly don't think that the damage reduction when stunned matches the marauder class. It's not the tough tank like PT or a Jugg and shouldn't feel or play like one.

I thought about what COULD work and I came up with this:
  • Kolto-Injection (passive) Adrenals, Stims and Medpacks usable when stunned.
  • Force Camouflage always purges movement impairing effects
  • Fleetfooted/Unbound 1.5/3 seconds of immunity to movement-impairs
  • Zaelous Ward / Blood Ward no longer heals on hit/1.5 but increses runspeed by 5%/10% for 20 seconds stack up to 5 times.


Obviously the aim is to make the Sent/Mara more elusive and less.... stationary. As it is right now, we move less than any sniper.

XeniusX's Avatar


XeniusX
07.30.2014 , 09:48 AM | #42
Well, as a full time marauder since Beta i would like to chime in a little bit if thats ok.

All of my suggestions come from excessive amounts of pvp'ing and thats really all my expertice on the matter.

As of now, with all the buffs been granted to different classes the marauder class feels a bit under par.
The dmg potential is great in anni and carnage however Rage is in a bad position imo. it might offer great spike, but without the AOE the whole spec feels broken and unrewarding. Some people like it though and the spec was too good when full AOE.

Annihilation: Damagewise this spec performs very well, i would maybe say too well even, however one starts to notice the problems with the spec when you face competent competition, who will stun, kb and especially use snares a lot. Snares and roots are a gigantic problem for annihilation and when you don't even have rootbreak on camo it can be a total pain. The whole spec lacks something to keep things going, to be versatile. Marauders are way too squishy these days to be rooted and snared for too long.

Carnage: Damagewise it performs how i feel the spec should perform, however every class and spec has damagepotential at the start of entering combat and therefore can feel very unrewarding when one gets the primary focus of the enemy and can't even get rage before popping pretty much every DCD. This is just mildly annoying but can be a huge problem in games where its a tight race for the kills and its all about dishing out as much as possible when arriving back at the battlefield.

Rage: This spec performs well even without the AOE damagewise, however the "awesome" spike damage with smash everyone keeps talking about makes me cringe. That sentiment might have been true a few patches ago but with all the buffs around the "great" spike burst of smash is not that great and many classes and specs have the same or better equivalent. This and also the general feeling i get from playing the spec makes it very unrewarding but functional.

The fix:

Force camo can now be used while stunned (not mezzed) and will grant immunity from movement impairing effects during the duration, additionally getting stunned or rooted reduces the cooldown of force camo by 1.5 seconds (passive or 1st row of any given tree)

Undying rage is removed (who cares, useless DCD anyway)

Precisely how many seconds the cooldown should be reduced can be discussed and this is just a suggestion that I very much would like to see.

Since Anni is a dot spec, this change i feel will be enough for the spec to work better. Carnage didn't have any problem with snares but the class needed something in general to be more elusive and functional.

With these changes every spec will get the (imo) deserved fast and agile feel the class need without giving it a boringly OP DCD like juggs. It also fits our class imo, we shouldn't be super tanky, juggs can have that, but atleast give us something so that we can function properly.

Also i would like to add that i feel they should do something about carnage and the RNG of it. It needs to be more consistent imo. QoL is needed for carnage.

AngusFTW's Avatar


AngusFTW
07.30.2014 , 10:23 AM | #43
What other classes have a 100% autocrit ability (lets take aoe reduction out of this and excluding jug before any smartness ) that hits hard and as reliably as smash...? Other class buffs are irrelevent its still the most reliable spike burst dmg in the game

I think all 3 specs are in a pretty good place.
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XeniusX's Avatar


XeniusX
07.30.2014 , 10:41 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by AngusFTW View Post
What other classes have a 100% autocrit ability (lets take aoe reduction out of this and excluding jug before any smartness ) that hits hard and as reliably as smash...? Other class buffs are irrelevent its still the most reliable spike dmg in the game

I think all 3 specs are in a pretty good place.
Yea people like to throw around 100 % autocrit and think superawesome. There are several classes and abilitys taht hit just as hard or harder, not as reliably or as often granted.
If you wanted a spesific class ill give you recklessness and assassins for instance ? which not only have 1 crit but 3. and yes they are pretty reliable.

Other classes buffs are not irrelevant, thats is one of the most ignorant statements i've heard. so if everyone hits twice as hard as a marauder its not relevant, just keep marauders as is ? please think before you write lol.

Also, if you read more carefully i said that every spec performs well (not exact wording but yea), except that i feel Rage is very unrewarding and Carnage needs a QoL change. I even stated taht anni might be too good.

You are entitled to your opinion that marauders are fine as is and i agree that its not a terrible class :P I love my marauder and I only (90% of the time) play this class and therefore i naturally recognize a few things that will improve the current state of the game.

I personally think its not too much to ask. the reducing of cooldown can be cut to level it out, but all in all this change for removal of UR is not unwaranted.

Just my opinion ofc and if you had something more to discuss bring it on.

Cjirucha's Avatar


Cjirucha
07.31.2014 , 06:46 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by XeniusX View Post
Yea people like to throw around 100 % autocrit and think superawesome. There are several classes and abilitys taht hit just as hard or harder, not as reliably or as often granted.
If you wanted a spesific class ill give you recklessness and assassins for instance ? which not only have 1 crit but 3. and yes they are pretty reliable.

Other classes buffs are not irrelevant, thats is one of the most ignorant statements i've heard. so if everyone hits twice as hard as a marauder its not relevant, just keep marauders as is ? please think before you write lol.

Also, if you read more carefully i said that every spec performs well (not exact wording but yea), except that i feel Rage is very unrewarding and Carnage needs a QoL change. I even stated taht anni might be too good.

You are entitled to your opinion that marauders are fine as is and i agree that its not a terrible class :P I love my marauder and I only (90% of the time) play this class and therefore i naturally recognize a few things that will improve the current state of the game.

I personally think its not too much to ask. the reducing of cooldown can be cut to level it out, but all in all this change for removal of UR is not unwaranted.

Just my opinion ofc and if you had something more to discuss bring it on.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I cannot however, get behind a complete removal of undying rage. As of right now I only use it to prolong my death for an additional 4 seconds which I'll admit is less than ideal. However, I'd rather have those 4 seconds of near immunity compared with nothing. I also think with a slight rework it could become a very useful defensive cooldown. A lot of great ideas for that have already been brought up on this thread. What I'm getting at is what do you think we should get in return for a complete removal of an iconic marauder ability?

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
07.31.2014 , 07:10 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by XeniusX View Post


Annihilation: Damagewise this spec performs very well, i would maybe say too well even, however one starts to notice the problems with the spec when you face competent competition, who will stun, kb and especially use snares a lot. Snares and roots are a gigantic problem for annihilation and when you don't even have rootbreak on camo it can be a total pain. The whole spec lacks something to keep things going, to be versatile. Marauders are way too squishy these days to be rooted and snared for too long.

Anni performs fine in PvP for me, slows are put an impunity if you have Trancendence up, and Force Camo can help too. Roots, yes those are a problem. i say we add to Focused Leap the ability to use Force Leap while rooted that would fix that issue.

Carnage: Damagewise it performs how i feel the spec should perform, however every class and spec has damagepotential at the start of entering combat and therefore can feel very unrewarding when one gets the primary focus of the enemy and can't even get rage before popping pretty much every DCD. This is just mildly annoying but can be a huge problem in games where its a tight race for the kills and its all about dishing out as much as possible when arriving back at the battlefield.

Carnage IMO is the spec with the LEAST damage potential in PvP, the sheer amount of stuns in PvP make it hard to even get a ravage out without becoming stunned/rooted/slowed. I think that the Ataru Form should come with a stock 30% extra movement speed inside combat, and for Carnage turn Force Camoflage into something akin to Force Speed with a rootbreak and threat dump. that would fix most of it's issues, then there's stuns... oh stuns, why must you be so long? well, in Carnage, why not add something that in PvP ONLY would reduce the length of ALL stuns by 2.5 seconds (taking 4 second stuns down to 2.5 seconds and 8 second stuns down to 6.5 seconds, and Mezzes down to 8.5 seconds) OR you can take the Lame route and give 60% damage reduction while stunned and allow Undying Rage to be used while CC'd

Rage: This spec performs well even without the AOE damagewise, however the "awesome" spike damage with smash everyone keeps talking about makes me cringe. That sentiment might have been true a few patches ago but with all the buffs around the "great" spike burst of smash is not that great and many classes and specs have the same or better equivalent. This and also the general feeling i get from playing the spec makes it very unrewarding but functional.

To fix Rage tree, we need our feared AOE DPS back, and the key to it is Sweeping Slash. Sweeping Slash currently costs 3 Rage, and deals barely more damage than our basic attack, but in the Rage tree, we should boost it's damage up by say 75% in total, give it a free 10% Crit rate, increase it's target limit from 5 to infinite, and finally to cap it off allow it to reduce the CD of Smash and Obliderate, These changes would make the spec deal alot of AOE burst DPS and AOE filler. i think in total with these changes Sweeping Slash would deal non-critical in the 2.5k - 2.9k range, and crit for about 4k - 5k and for a filler move, that seems reasonable.

The fix:

Force camo can now be used while stunned (not mezzed) and will grant immunity from movement impairing effects during the duration, additionally getting stunned or rooted reduces the cooldown of force camo by 1.5 seconds (passive or 1st row of any given tree)

Ok, seems fine

Undying rage is removed (who cares, useless DCD anyway)

NEVER, it's the BEST DCD in the game!

Precisely how many seconds the cooldown should be reduced can be discussed and this is just a suggestion that I very much would like to see.

Since Anni is a dot spec, this change i feel will be enough for the spec to work better. Carnage didn't have any problem with snares but the class needed something in general to be more elusive and functional.

With these changes every spec will get the (imo) deserved fast and agile feel the class need without giving it a boringly OP DCD like juggs. It also fits our class imo, we shouldn't be super tanky, juggs can have that, but atleast give us something so that we can function properly.

Also i would like to add that i feel they should do something about carnage and the RNG of it. It needs to be more consistent imo. QoL is needed for carnage.

Been saying that for the past like SINCE 2.0 CAME OUT... it's why i deleted my Mara (though i'm making a new one now...)
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XeniusX's Avatar


XeniusX
08.01.2014 , 10:22 AM | #47
Well, i personally think that Cloak of Pain and Force camo is the best DCD in the game, UR is a ballbuster and even though i like it (loved it before they totally ****ed it) i wouldn't mind removing it for an improvement of either or both of the two first DCD i mentioned.

Like i said the force camo improvement i suggested is my favorite. I think it solves anni tree snare/root problem aswell as the class dependancy on backup. The rest is just QoL stuff and minor tweaks. I really don't think i'll even miss UR Not with Force camo readily available like every 35 or so seconds if we add the reducing of cooldown.