I left WOW cuz PVP is a joke there...

Came back to SWTOR and I'm loving the game! Really great changes and the classes are all a blast. However, I'm growing frustrated at PVP and specifically ranked PVP.

Ranked PVP needs some love from the Devs....

1. Increase Ranked Que Pops - Easiest way to fix this is to increase rewards from PVP. This will encourage more people to participate, more people queing = more pops.

2. Class balance - We all know stealth is running the show currently. Take away tactical swapping during a match. If your not playing a Sin, Op, Sorc in solo ranked you are really at a disadvantage. Some buffs are due to under preforming specs.

3. Bring back 8v8 ranked? I know in WOW Rated Battelgrounds are some of the most fun I had PVPing in that game...

Overall I'd really like to play other classes in PVP not be forced into the meta. I feel that SWTOR is really close. What other ideas would you suggest to the Devs to help revitalize PVP?

Thanks,

2. Class balance - We all know stealth is running the show currently. Take away tactical swapping during a match. If your not playing a Sin, Op, Sorc in solo ranked you are really at a disadvantage. Some buffs are due to under preforming specs.

This is true, and rumour has it they will be doing a bit of re-balancing work in Feb this year.

Ranked does suck for any classes not aforementioned because you basically have to rely on RNG to win.

The RNG for ranked has always been bad, class stacking, doesn't understand talent and generally works as a win one, lose one mechanic if you're just an average player trying to compete.

But we need to keep tactical swapping in the game.

Its unique and new and it helps other classes too not just fotm.

I think if they ban tactical swapping, it would make for a poorer level of gameplay across all classes

Quality over quantity, increasing the reward doesn’t increase the quality of the players coming to Ranked.

To be honest, the quality of matches so far this season is way higher than anytime in the last two seasons. Last night I was in a match that had three top 3 sins, a gold sin, a gold op, myself a gold sorc, and another good sin and op. In previous seasons I got used to frequently being one of the best players in a match. Now I'm often one of the worst. It's more stressful, but the games are much more competitive overall in my experience.

Of course, the fact that it's a stealth meta is annoying in and of itself, but that's mainly a balancing issue. Even if they addressed class stacking it would still be a problem that a majority of the queue are sins and ops.

But we need to keep tactical swapping in the game.

Its unique and new and it helps other classes too not just fotm.

I think if they ban tactical swapping, it would make for a poorer level of gameplay across all classes

This is nonsense. 95% of the tactical swapping being done in ranked is by sins.

I left WOW cuz PVP is a joke there...

 

Came back to SWTOR and I'm loving the game! Really great changes and the classes are all a blast. However, I'm growing frustrated at PVP and specifically ranked PVP.

 

Ranked PVP needs some love from the Devs....

 

1. Increase Ranked Que Pops - Easiest way to fix this is to increase rewards from PVP. This will encourage more people to participate, more people queing = more pops.

 

2. Class balance - We all know stealth is running the show currently. Take away tactical swapping during a match. If your not playing a Sin, Op, Sorc in solo ranked you are really at a disadvantage. Some buffs are due to under preforming specs.

 

3. Bring back 8v8 ranked? I know in WOW Rated Battelgrounds are some of the most fun I had PVPing in that game...

 

Overall I'd really like to play other classes in PVP not be forced into the meta. I feel that SWTOR is really close. What other ideas would you suggest to the Devs to help revitalize PVP?

 

Thanks,

Increasing rewards is a good way to decrease player quality participating in ranked. Increase rewards in regular warzones, so that more people play and learn to play.

Tactical swapping is not really a class balance issue, but overall stealth classes are very powerful, but can be controlled if people learned to use cc properly, or blow them up. sins are pretty squish and the best way to shut them down, is to focus them. Operatives are pretty simple to keep out of the fight by using cc, and also can be squishy when defensives are on cd.

8v8 ranked will not work. Been through this too many times.

Increasing rewards is a good way to decrease player quality participating in ranked. Increase rewards in regular warzones, so that more people play and learn to play.

Tactical swapping is not really a class balance issue, but overall stealth classes are very powerful, but can be controlled if people learned to use cc properly, or blow them up. sins are pretty squish and the best way to shut them down, is to focus them. Operatives are pretty simple to keep out of the fight by using cc, and also can be squishy when defensives are on cd.

8v8 ranked will not work. Been through this too many times.

One of the problems I see is that there just isn't enough people queing for ranked. What incentive is there? Increasing rewards would probably attract more people to pvp, it also gives people who really want to pvp someway to progress their gear. I think we can all say you can not currently gear doing pvp.

I see tactical swapping as a major class balance issue as only 2-3 classes can swap tacticals during a match.

Class balance will happen, though it's usually doesn't come as quickly as players want.

In terms of ranked participation, on Star Forge, the solo ranked queue is alive and well. I believe that some of that can be attributed to Satele Shan players transferring their toons over to Star Forge in the offseason, but I also think that the win requirement (which is steep if you want top 3/Gold) is forcing players to continue queueing in order to grind the wins necessary, even if they had reached the desired ELO tier. I understand that Satele Shan players don't care that Star Forge pops, but if Solo Ranked is your preferred mode, it's best to transfer to a server where the pops are more lively.

The rewards for ranked after season 12 will be a replica Furious set which (ask any longtime-PVPer) are some of the most desired gear sets in the game. The grind is steep, but if you want that gear, you have to queue ranked. That, along with the win requirements are keeping players in queue.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of putting crafting mats as solo ranked rewards because I don't think (for their sake) mat farmers should queue solo ranked. I'm fine with crafting mats in group ranked because they can queue together and group ranked NEEDS players queueing more than solos. However, having an inexperienced player queue solos with the sole intention of getting crafting mats is just asking for trouble....they're just going to get flamed and vote-kicked.

8v8s......time has come and gone, ranked player base not large enough.

This is nonsense. 95% of the tactical swapping being done in ranked is by sins.

Maybe you didn't know this Alex but Tactical Slots are situational.

Some examples:

MERC - I run a Gunnery DPS with a Bodyguard Spec Tactical, Running Rapid Restoration.

This allows me to spam med probes as I LOS in PVP, and helps when I'm under heavy focus.

In easier games where I can freecast and play numbers, I swap tactical to the one that gives Vortex Bolt flame damage, because this greatly increases the dps of my rotation. I can usually be found on my merc, swapping between those tacticals each fight to farm DPS & HPS for medals. This setup is also good in a ranked scenario.

MARA - I play conc / fury which has been nerfed horribly and its DPS and resilience sucks now compared to what it was last expac. Like most Sentinels / Marauders I run Defel Spliced Genes for double stealth, but when i find im not being focused too hard I lose aggro and swap to enrage crush, which detonates force exhaustion with focused burst / force sweep (Not sure on Imp Scum names) and deals its remaining damage to up to 8 enemies stacked on the target - and this serves to give me a purpose as I can jump into a stack of players and actually do something.

In ranked in healer games the sudden burst is invaluable but sometimes ive found myself to get focused down and have to stealth out, then swap to defel spliced genes in order to kite.

Every Class can be utilized in the same way.

I won't bore you by going across all of them, but just because YOU don't see the value in it, doesn't mean its nonsense. Even sorcs have been rotating between Stormwatch and The Life Warden. I suggest you actually explore and use tactical swapping before you pretend to be an authority on it. *tips fedora*

Maybe you didn't know this Alex but Tactical Slots are situational.

Some examples:

 

MERC - I run a Gunnery DPS with a Bodyguard Spec Tactical, Running Rapid Restoration.

This allows me to spam med probes as I LOS in PVP, and helps when I'm under heavy focus.

In easier games where I can freecast and play numbers, I swap tactical to the one that gives Vortex Bolt flame damage, because this greatly increases the dps of my rotation. I can usually be found on my merc, swapping between those tacticals each fight to farm DPS & HPS for medals. This setup is also good in a ranked scenario.

 

MARA - I play conc / fury which has been nerfed horribly and its DPS and resilience sucks now compared to what it was last expac. Like most Sentinels / Marauders I run Defel Spliced Genes for double stealth, but when i find im not being focused too hard I lose aggro and swap to enrage crush, which detonates force exhaustion with focused burst / force sweep (Not sure on Imp Scum names) and deals its remaining damage to up to 8 enemies stacked on the target - and this serves to give me a purpose as I can jump into a stack of players and actually do something.

In ranked in healer games the sudden burst is invaluable but sometimes ive found myself to get focused down and have to stealth out, then swap to defel spliced genes in order to kite.

 

Every Class can be utilized in the same way.

I won't bore you by going across all of them, but just because YOU don't see the value in it, doesn't mean its nonsense. Even sorcs have been rotating between Stormwatch and The Life Warden. I suggest you actually explore and use tactical swapping before you pretend to be an authority on it. *tips fedora*

When we say tactical swapping, we mean mid-round. Meaning you have to get out of combat to do it. No one wants to remove tactical swapping between rounds.

As a merc, how are you getting out of combat mid-round?

As a mara, if you have to stealth out and heal...you'll probably have to stealth out and heal again, so why would you swap off of the spliced genes tactical?

Also I have swapped to life warden on occasion. But it's rare that you get out of combat as a sorc. If I'm under focus and phasewalk, good players will always chase me to my phase spot very quickly. If for some reason I don't get chased, I heal up and then go rejoin the fight. Sometimes I will somewhat randomly get out of combat fast, in which case tactical swapping is an option, but I normally don't opt for it anyway, because there's nothing to switch to but life warden, and I almost always want to save life warden for the third round anyway.

 

As a mara, if you have to stealth out and heal...you'll probably have to stealth out and heal again, so why would you swap off of the spliced genes tactical?

 

I know you asked that other poster the question, but when I queue mara, if I get to cloak out and heal, I'll sometimes swap to life-warden because the extra health is more imporant than a camo-refresh. A good example of this is when the match turns into a 2v2, constant cloaks won't mean much because if I do cloak out, I'm leaving my teammate to fend for themselves against 2 players for at least 20 seconds.

Now in that instance, I won't consider the swap to life-warden game-breaking, though I may be biased.

When we say tactical swapping, we mean mid-round. Meaning you have to get out of combat to do it. No one wants to remove tactical swapping between rounds.

Neither do I.

As a merc, how are you getting out of combat mid-round?

1. The same way anyone exits combat. ./running man.

It might sound impractical but welcome to the 6.0 stealth meta

As a mara, if you have to stealth out and heal...you'll probably have to stealth out and heal again, so why would you swap off of the spliced genes tactical?

2. The round may have progressed and therefor me running a higher burst may be warranted.

Perhaps against stacking players or just to have the tactical utility to take roughly 10% HP in a single burst.

You make two assumptions here:

One - That i would require two stealths, you should realistically only NEED one to heal.

Two - That me having been forced to heal, means that im losing a round.

Like I said, tactical slots are situational.

Also I have swapped to life warden on occasion. But it's rare that you get out of combat as a sorc. If I'm under focus and phasewalk, good players will always chase me to my phase spot very quickly. If for some reason I don't get chased, I heal up and then go rejoin the fight. Sometimes I will somewhat randomly get out of combat fast, in which case tactical swapping is an option, but I normally don't opt for it anyway, because there's nothing to switch to but life warden, and I almost always want to save life warden for the third round anyway.

That makes sense but to come full circle to the original point.... a lot of us do swap tac slots across a variety of classes, its a personal preference but makes a big difference in arenas done correctly, and removing the ability to swap tac slots mid round would make for a pooer experience across all classes. They're useful.

1. The same way anyone exits combat. ./running man.

It might sound impractical but welcome to the 6.0 stealth meta

If you're the focus target as a merc, and you can somehow run away from the entire enemy team until you get out of combat, that just means the other team is terrible. There's no other way it could happen.

That makes sense but to come full circle to the original point.... a lot of us do swap tac slots across a variety of classes, its a personal preference but makes a big difference in arenas done correctly, and removing the ability to swap tac slots mid round would make for a pooer experience across all classes. They're useful.

Even if I grant that tactical swapping can be used situationally by all classes, I don't know why you're ignoring the obvious: tactical swapping benefits sins more than any other class, and sins have by far the most opportunities to tactical swap. And considering that sins are the best class in solo ranked right now, that is a problem.

All I know is that I play on SF and Ive been qued for solo ranked for 20 mins... no pop.

THIS ISNT FUN.

All I know is that I play on SF and Ive been qued for solo ranked for 20 mins... no pop.

 

THIS ISNT FUN.

There are multiple ranked games going on right now. Use the /who box and search arena canyon square orbital ring 75 and you can see them for yourself. Sometimes you can get skipped from a game or two.

There are multiple ranked games going on right now. Use the /who box and search arena canyon square orbital ring 75 and you can see them for yourself. Sometimes you can get skipped from a game or two.

I have gotten one pop in 30minutes. I dunno man.

If you're the focus target as a merc, and you can somehow run away from the entire enemy team until you get out of combat, that just means the other team is terrible. There's no other way it could happen.

 

Even if I grant that tactical swapping can be used situationally by all classes, I don't know why you're ignoring the obvious: tactical swapping benefits sins more than any other class, and sins have by far the most opportunities to tactical swap. And considering that sins are the best class in solo ranked right now, that is a problem.

As much as Alex and I disagree on wether Sins need a “nerf”, what he has said here is 100% correct.

Sins benefit the most from tac swapping. So much so that they are like extra abilities and DCDs in the taskbar.

Tac swapping needs to be removed unless you are between rounds. You should not be able to swap once the rounds starts.

I also agree the other players are BAD if you can “just” run away on a Merc to get out of combat while being focused. Even in regs!

All I know is that I play on SF and Ive been qued for solo ranked for 20 mins... no pop.

 

THIS ISNT FUN.

What’s the time bracket you are queuing based on EST and PDT? I think that will be contributing a lot to the amount of pops you are getting

There are multiple ranked games going on right now. Use the /who box and search arena canyon square orbital ring 75 and you can see them for yourself. Sometimes you can get skipped from a game or two.

Doesn’t that also show granked matches too?

Doesn’t that also show granked matches too?

Yes, but none of them were granked matches. I recognized most of the people.

What’s the time bracket you are queuing based on EST and PDT? I think that will be contributing a lot to the amount of pops you are getting

I was in Que at 8:30 - 9:00 Central time. Primetime.

I was in Que at 8:30 - 9:00 Central time. Primetime.

And I'm telling you there were multiple games going during that time. I played like 20 solo ranked games last night and was getting basically instapops. You just got skipped. It happens to everyone sometimes.

If you're the focus target as a merc, and you can somehow run away from the entire enemy team until you get out of combat, that just means the other team is terrible. There's no other way it could happen.

 

A merc has hold the line, double rocket out, net, concussion round, a regular cc, a root.

Falling to all that doesn't mean the other team is terrible, it means theres a way to use your utilities to kite.

 

 

Even if I grant that tactical swapping can be used situationally by all classes, I don't know why you're ignoring the obvious: tactical swapping benefits sins more than any other class, and sins have by far the most opportunities to tactical swap. And considering that sins are the best class in solo ranked right now, that is a problem.

It does benefit sins quite a lot. Im not ignoring the obvious at all im stating the contrary opinion that a lot of us tactical swap across a lot of classes - its not exclusive to sins and its removal would make for a poorer level of gameplay across all classes.

The problem with sins isn't its ability to tactical swap, its its insane damage you get at no point in the game other than in endgame. The class has the utilities to be equally as deadly with less dps and less crit potential. If they did less damage then them surviving wouldn't really matter, but the issue with sins is its survivability WHILE doing these numbers.

Not to fire shots but i think if anyone is ignoring the obvious its you because the issue with sins is so clearly to do with dps power in general over tactical swapping. It can down a dps with no dcds up, by opening with 1cc, and by the time the 8 second stun is over you can be dead. The fact that potential like that even exists in the game makes PvP a complete and utter joke in 6.0

Not to fire shots but i think if anyone is ignoring the obvious its you because the issue with sins is so clearly to do with dps power in general over tactical swapping. It can down a dps with no dcds up, by opening with 1cc, and by the time the 8 second stun is over you can be dead. The fact that potential like that even exists in the game makes PvP a complete and utter joke in 6.0

In another thread, I mentioned that I think they should remove tactical swapping AND slightly nerf maul spam. I agree with you, that right now sins burst damage is insane, which would be fine if they weren't so hard to kill with all of their stealth outs. And you realize that one of the tacticals that sins switch to improves their damage right? They will often switch to a damage tactical, especially late in rounds or if the game is going to acid.

I can understand you like the fact that tactical swapping can be used to adapt to different circumstances. But it's just fundamentally unfair that not only do sins have some of the most useful tacticals to swap to, they can do it so much more frequently. Even if they nerfed maul spam, that would still be an unfair advantage for sins. The only fair way to do it would be to just allow tactical swapping on the fly during combat, but then what's next? Swapping utilities while in combat? I think all gear, including tacticals, should just be set in stone once a round starts. You can change it between rounds to make adjustments.

And not for nothing, you seem to be the only person defending tactical swapping. I'm not sure your personal enjoyment of it should trump actual balance concerns.

In another thread, I mentioned that I think they should remove tactical swapping AND slightly nerf maul spam. I agree with you, that right now sins burst damage is insane, which would be fine if they weren't so hard to kill with all of their stealth outs. And you realize that one of the tacticals that sins switch to improves their damage right? They will often switch to a damage tactical, especially late in rounds or if the game is going to acid.

 

My perspective on agreeing with you here, is to take a look at Lowbies / Mids PvP. Every player there plays with a bolster to 75. This allows those matches at lower levels to emulate how the game "should" be at level 75. Under no circumstances in those conditions are sins & shadows or the other class with a major dps balancing issue: (operatives / scoundrels playing volatile strike / ruffian / tactician set setup - for example), doing anywhere near this kind of burst damage you see at endgame.

 

Both classes admittedly do good DPS even still, but to a degree where its even. Sins having no dcds, Ops / Scoundrels basically being global bait on a good hardstun serves to offset any unfair advantage. The problem with these fotm classes starts at endgame and rationally that can only lead you to the conclusion the class is broke, as its directly at endgame these new and additional bonuses become too unbalanced and too poweful.

 

Maul spam is ridiculous, it is a complete joke because sins should not be able to crit so many times in a row. As far as im aware, its not an autocrit class and other classes don't crit nearly as much.

 

I can understand you like the fact that tactical swapping can be used to adapt to different circumstances. But it's just fundamentally unfair that not only do sins have some of the most useful tacticals to swap to, they can do it so much more frequently. Even if they nerfed maul spam, that would still be an unfair advantage for sins. The only fair way to do it would be to just allow tactical swapping on the fly during combat, but then what's next? Swapping utilities while in combat? I think all gear, including tacticals, should just be set in stone once a round starts. You can change it between rounds to make adjustments.

 

Its an overall dps reduction that needs to be applied to both sins and operatives. Much like what has been given to sentinels and maruaders, which has literally only been an unfair decision because of the dps increase to the other classes. Both specs need to be brought more in line with marauders.

 

And not for nothing, you seem to be the only person defending tactical swapping. I'm not sure your personal enjoyment of it should trump actual balance concerns.

I defend it because I don't see tactical swapping as an issue. Nine out of ten times on most non-fotm classes when you tactical swap, it is to reduce the numbers gap between myself and fotm classes. On my sentinel for example, running enrage crush I can easily keep up with a volatile strike ops numbers, I don't know about a sin but ops/scounds and TK / Ling sages become a lot less threatening on my main with the option to swap between large bursts and double stealths. Even with the current state of the meta, and sins swapping mid round, I can still close the gap by quite a bit employing the same tactics and as that's the case... the issue with these fotm classes I would isolate completely to dps and crit potential being too high, as the system you're complaining about in essence works the same for every class, regardless of how useful to each class the individual tac slots are.

as the system you're complaining about in essence works the same for every class, regardless of how useful to each class the individual tac slots are.

Except it doesn't work the same for each class, because only some classes reliably get out of combat every round of every ranked match. We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.