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One of our Own Guilds featured this week on Darthhater.com


BlownSi

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Hey everyone. Just wanted to get a link up for this if anyone wanted to check this out. My guild, Corruptive Minds, is being featured on DarthHater this week in the Ops Com section, dealing with our NiM Zorn & Toth strat. We just wanted to share it out to everyone on the server for some enjoyment and maybe to help a guild out there that might be working on progression. Enjoy!

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/feature/22894-column-opscom-1-21-13

 

J'anin/Harm/Kaase of The Shadowlands

Delwynn Legacy

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Kind of amusing that Darth Hater posted a strat that is clearly not the way Bioware designed the fight to happen. Congrats on your creative use of mechanics though, I'm sure a lot of guilds out there that couldn't do T/Z NiM will now be able to cheese their way to victory!
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We have done this a few times but yea, your dps has to be awesome because of the decreased damage toth takes. I find this method easyer if you have new/crappy healers but if you dont have the dps for it (alot) then you have to do it the old way. Both ways are hard, but this way is simple mechanics for good dps vs complex mechanics for run of the mil dps.

It's funny how you say "others can now use this to cheese their way to victory" but really, dps is tight, give it a try and see how easy it is lol. I have a hard time breaking 1650dps using this method, where as normally 1750 is usually par for the course.

Edited by Lafay
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We have done this a few times but yea, your dps has to be awesome because of the decreased damage toth takes. I find this method easyer if you have new/crappy healers but if you dont have the dps for it (alot) then you have to do it the old way. Both ways are hard, but this way is simple mechanics for good dps vs complex mechanics for run of the mil dps.

It's funny how you say "others can now use this to cheese their way to victory" but really, dps is tight, give it a try and see how easy it is lol. I have a hard time breaking 1650dps using this method, where as normally 1750 is usually par for the course.

 

My thoughts exactly. Both strats are viable. Both capitalize on different strengths of the group you bring in. Thanks for your input.

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If you ever look up what an Exploit is in a video game, you'll see why what you're doing is wrong. If you are using a games mechanic to purposefully bypass all other mechanics of a boss fight, you are exploiting the fight to win. When this occurred in wow, the development team had a hotfix for the fight within a week and if a guild used something like this, they would be banned for 3 days. (Which happened on a few World Firsts last expansion and also on Heroic LK 25man) The Bioware Development team in general is terrible with fixing bugs in raids (See SOA for the first 6 months of this game as an example) so I'm sure you can continue to use this strat with no worry of ban hammers.

 

Also:

You are talking about it being a higher dps check but you're forgetting that you're eliminating all other aspects of the fight that would hinder DPS. You are essentially making the fight a Tank and Spank where you don't have to worry about ANY OTHER mechanic that would screw up your rotations. You are also severely reducing the amount of healing going out because the healers will only have to watch the tank on Toth and never have to worry about the two red circle phases. This also eliminates the movement // defensive CD // possibly self heals of all of the DPS because you are exploiting a bug in order to skip phases.

 

Like I stated before: This strategy completely cheeses the fight and makes it a joke. If those guilds out there that are still struggling with NiM T/Z use this strat and then it is "fixed" (IE, after the big rock is thrown - the red circle phase will follow) they will have to learn to do it the "correct" way.

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If you ever look up what an Exploit is in a video game, you'll see why what you're doing is wrong. If you are using a games mechanic to purposefully bypass all other mechanics of a boss fight, you are exploiting the fight to win. When this occurred in wow, the development team had a hotfix for the fight within a week and if a guild used something like this, they would be banned for 3 days. (Which happened on a few World Firsts last expansion and also on Heroic LK 25man) The Bioware Development team in general is terrible with fixing bugs in raids (See SOA for the first 6 months of this game as an example) so I'm sure you can continue to use this strat with no worry of ban hammers.

 

Also:

You are talking about it being a higher dps check but you're forgetting that you're eliminating all other aspects of the fight that would hinder DPS. You are essentially making the fight a Tank and Spank where you don't have to worry about ANY OTHER mechanic that would screw up your rotations. You are also severely reducing the amount of healing going out because the healers will only have to watch the tank on Toth and never have to worry about the two red circle phases. This also eliminates the movement // defensive CD // possibly self heals of all of the DPS because you are exploiting a bug in order to skip phases.

 

Like I stated before: This strategy completely cheeses the fight and makes it a joke. If those guilds out there that are still struggling with NiM T/Z use this strat and then it is "fixed" (IE, after the big rock is thrown - the red circle phase will follow) they will have to learn to do it the "correct" way.

 

when bioware calls this an exploit we will stop, until then, you need to stop. cheesing maybe, exploit never. And yes they do know we do it like this.

I am intimately aware of mmo dev, and while i may not work for this company, i do know dev mindset. There is more than one way to beat a boss. Did they think of this, maybe, maybe not, but, and all developers of mmos will say this, there is more than one viable way to clear a boss. an exploit would be something like /getdown while tanking Soa, and if you don't know how that worked out, Google search it. That is an exploit, this is a smart use of mechanics

 

edit: I forgot to add this, I'm the healer in this group, the "normal" way, i end fight with full force. on the "exploit" way, i end up with no force. there is more than enough damage going out to make this a "hard" strat, if you cant push, and do not have good heals, you will die. (PS. I've been involved in mmo development for 10+ years. can play any role fairly well except dps {bores me}, so calling me a bad healer isn't going to work)

Edited by Padheannis
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edit: I forgot to add this, I'm the healer in this group, the "normal" way, i end fight with full force. on the "exploit" way, i end up with no force. there is more than enough damage going out to make this a "hard" strat, if you cant push, and do not have good heals, you will die. (PS. I've been involved in mmo development for 10+ years. can play any role fairly well except dps {bores me}, so calling me a bad healer isn't going to work)

 

What little credibility you may have had, is gone now after this statement. And let me quote from your guild here:

 

Bawoni - Corruptive Minds

Found an interesting strategy that my guild has done about twice a week upon release of 1.6 for Toth and Zorn Nightmare Mode. Basically we keep Toth in berserk phase for the entire fight. Must have top-notch dps but the fight is very clean if done correctly and considerably easier for each role.

 

So I read contradictory statements. You are saying it is hard, yet your guild is quoting saying this makes the fight considerably easier. Which is it?

 

Regardless, there is nothing "hard" about this fight no matter how you do it. What you are doing is cheesing a mechanic that is clearly NOT working as intended which equates to exploiting. In the Operations forums there was an entire thread discussing your "hard" strat, which was ultimately deleted because posting exploits on the forums is against the TOS.

 

Basically what you are doing here is broadcasting to the server that you cannot do a clearly scripted fight as intended and need to bypass mechanics in order for your DPS to properly execute the fight. What I read is that there are issues avoiding red reticles, having DPS not kill themeselves to Fearful, cleansing the DOT that goes out after the transitions, etc. Basically removing all the execution aspects of the fight which is all any of these fights are. You might as well be fighting the Operations Dummy on the fleet.

 

When the fight is fixed in 3-4 months from now (thanks Bioware), you'll have overgeared the content and not even need to go back and execute it the normal way. This is also the same reason I would assume you are still 3/4 Nightmare EC.

 

Regards,

KK

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So I read contradictory statements. You are saying it is hard, yet your guild is quoting saying this makes the fight considerably easier. Which is it?

 

Ok, you sound like a somewhat intelligent person, so I have to assume you are just trolling by this comment, because if you read the context of both comments that you quoted, a logical deduction could be achieved that this strategy IS easier on all rolls, IF.......one more time.......IF....the people in those rolls are top notch in their respective production.

 

 

Oh, and we cleared Zorn and Toth NiM the night of release, using the normal strat with tank swaps and such. So, before you go shooting your mouth off about things you know nothing about, you might want to just use that little thing in between your ears called a brain before you actually open your mouth.

Edited by BlownSi
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Personally I think this strategy falls under the purview of "creative use of game mechanics". Bypassing the mechanics of the fight is certainly cheesing it, but this is something that anyone can do, given adequate gear and/or experience. Ultimately, it's just a game, and no one's ego should be bruised because someone found a "better" way to kill a NPC.
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Personally I think this strategy falls under the purview of "creative use of game mechanics". Bypassing the mechanics of the fight is certainly cheesing it, but this is something that anyone can do, given adequate gear and/or experience. Ultimately, it's just a game, and no one's ego should be bruised because someone found a "better" way to kill a NPC.

 

Well put. Just a game. If it is easy for you, then by all means do it that way. If you find another way that is easier for you and your group, do it that way. As long as your not wallhacking or something, by all means do whatever strategy you feel like doing to accomplish the mission. Good luck to all.

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Ok, you sound like a somewhat intelligent person, so I have to assume you are just trolling by this comment, because if you read the context of both comments that you quoted, a logical deduction could be achieved that this strategy IS easier on all rolls, IF.......one more time.......IF....the people in those rolls are top notch in their respective production.

 

Rolls != Roles

 

Next time before you attempt to insult someone's intelligence, you should make sure you aren't making any basic grammatical errors.

 

Oh, and we cleared Zorn and Toth NiM the night of release, using the normal strat with tank swaps and such. So, before you go shooting your mouth off about things you know nothing about, you might want to just use that little thing in between your ears called a brain before you actually open your mouth.

 

Secondly, assuming you did actually do it properly: good for you on clearing the easiest fight in the instance on the night of release without exploiting and abusing broken mechanics from Bioware's wonderful development team. But based on the quote from your member, you have been exploiting twice a week since the release of 1.6 so are we to just take your word?

 

I am really impressed by your guild and its skill. /sarcasm

 

The only reason to exploit as your guild is doing week after week is if you cannot consistently execute the fight and ALL of it's mechanics. And how long have you been working on NiM Kephess now? AFAIK there is not an abuse of mechanics that has been found yet to cheese your way to victory on that fight, but I am sure once you find it you'll still be the 20th best guild on the server.

 

Regards,

KK

Edited by Krazy_Karl
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Rolls != Roles

 

Next time before you attempt to insult someone's intelligence, you should make sure you aren't making any basic grammatical errors.

 

 

 

Secondly, assuming you did actually do it properly: good for you on clearing the easiest fight in the instance on the night of release without exploiting and abusing broken mechanics from Bioware's wonderful development team. But based on the quote from your member, you have been exploiting twice a week since the release of 1.6 so are we to just take your word?

 

I am really impressed by your guild and its skill. /sarcasm

 

The only reason to exploit as your guild is doing week after week is if you cannot consistently execute the fight and ALL of it's mechanics. And how long have you been working on NiM Kephess now? AFAIK there is not an abuse of mechanics that has been found yet to cheese your way to victory on that fight, but I am sure once you find it you'll still be the 20th best guild on the server.

 

Regards,

KK

 

Please do not cheese your PvE battles, you may upset the NPC Boss. (And, apparently, Krazy Karl).

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Rolls != Roles

 

Next time before you attempt to insult someone's intelligence, you should make sure you aren't making any basic grammatical errors.

 

 

 

Secondly, assuming you did actually do it properly: good for you on clearing the easiest fight in the instance on the night of release without exploiting and abusing broken mechanics from Bioware's wonderful development team. But based on the quote from your member, you have been exploiting twice a week since the release of 1.6 so are we to just take your word?

 

I am really impressed by your guild and its skill. /sarcasm

 

The only reason to exploit as your guild is doing week after week is if you cannot consistently execute the fight and ALL of it's mechanics. And how long have you been working on NiM Kephess now? AFAIK there is not an abuse of mechanics that has been found yet to cheese your way to victory on that fight, but I am sure once you find it you'll still be the 20th best guild on the server.

 

Regards,

KK

 

And there it is, because you have no other relevant argument, you troll down to trivial grammar nazi insults. Seems it is pretty typical of a lot of people on these forums. Oh well what can you do.:rolleyes:

 

We don't need to explain what we do to you. We have cleared it both ways, plain and simple. Until BW says otherwise, we will continue to use this strategy. If they come back and tell us it is exploiting, then we will go back to the "normal" way of downing the boss. Either way, the boss goes down easy and we move on. So, your words mean nothing in the real scheme of things; try and keep that in mind for the future.;)

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Ok, you sound like a somewhat intelligent person, so I have to assume you are just trolling by this comment, because if you read the context of both comments that you quoted, a logical deduction could be achieved that this strategy IS easier on all rolls, IF.......one more time.......IF....the people in those rolls are top notch in their respective production.

 

 

Oh, and we cleared Zorn and Toth NiM the night of release, using the normal strat with tank swaps and such. So, before you go shooting your mouth off about things you know nothing about, you might want to just use that little thing in between your ears called a brain before you actually open your mouth.

 

A deduction is a decisive reason to believe in a conclusion....you are wanting him to use logical induction or just some reasons to believe in a conclusion, not any decisive reasons. (A decisive reason guarantees that the conclusion is true). Way too many questions left unanswered for him to use deduction to arrive at the conclusion you want him to. Like how is it easier on all rolls if bread cannot even play swtor? And if its easier on all roles then why is the healer out of force on the supposed easier way and not on the normal way? Seems to implcate it being the other way around to me. And since we are pretending to be all intelligent here on the internet....he didn't open his mouth he used nerve impulses from that thing in between his ears that traveled down to his forarms and fingers to cause his muscles to contract and type.

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We don't need to explain what we do to you. We have cleared it both ways, plain and simple. Until BW says otherwise, we will continue to use this strategy. If they come back and tell us it is exploiting, then we will go back to the "normal" way of downing the boss.

 

You're 100% correct that you have nothing to explain to me, or anyone else on the forums. But starting a thread on the forums showing exploiting and encouraging other guilds on the server to abuse a broken fight is why there are responses.

 

If you cannot consistently execute all the mechanics because you aren't good enough, then continue to do the fight your way. I have no issue with you exploiting, the issue is that encouraging other guilds to do it does a disservice to them, especially when they move on to fights that cannot be abused.

 

I wish you continued success wiping on NiM Kephess. :rolleyes:

 

Regards,

KK

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